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AmigaMac
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Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core Posted on 6-May-2007 2:41:52
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Super Member |
Joined: 26-Oct-2002 Posts: 1094
From: 3rd Rock from the Sun! | | |
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| @Hammer
Core 2 core issues 4 instructions per cycle. AMD64 issue 3 instructions per cycle.
PPC 970 FX (aka G5) can serve up to 8 instructions per cycle, so what's the real bragging rights here, really?!
@DrBombcrater
You have yet to make a valid (nor powerful) argument here other than show a true bias towards whatever x86 silliness you keep preaching.
If PowerPC sucks so darn bad, why are all the game consoles (Xbox 360, PS3 and the Wii) using it? And why are you wasting your precious time and worthy AW bytes on the x86 versus PPC debate in the first place; this argument will never be won by anybody, plain and simple! _________________
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herewegoagain
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Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core Posted on 6-May-2007 2:42:00
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Elite Member |
Joined: 8-Jan-2003 Posts: 3270
From: Charlotte, NC | | |
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| @Jorge
Within the scope of the Amiga OS, this is the best CPU option bar none. I'll be extremely pleased if this is indeed what the high end board is based upon.
I don't recall the last time I heard a user ask "what's the SpecInt2000"? when making a computer purchase. The most common questions are how many Gigahertz is it? How much RAM? What hard drive size? DVD-RW 16X Dual Layer? I hardly think this CPU would perform so poorly that everyone longs for their old 060 again.
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CodeSmith
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Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core Posted on 6-May-2007 3:42:30
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Joined: 8-Mar-2003 Posts: 3045
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| @herewegoagain
This CPU has twice the L2 cache and five times the memory bandwidth of a 7448 (200MHz vs 1066MHz memory bus), and runs at 2GHz. It's going to make an AmigaOne XE look like an A1200 (speed: 2GHz vs 800MHz; L2 cache: 2MB vs 256KB; memory bus: 1066MHz vs 133MHz)
Last edited by CodeSmith on 06-May-2007 at 03:58 AM.
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herewegoagain
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Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core Posted on 6-May-2007 4:20:47
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Joined: 8-Jan-2003 Posts: 3270
From: Charlotte, NC | | |
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| @CodeSmith
Yeah, I know. I've been reading about it for some time now. Just trying to make a point. |
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CodeSmith
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Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core Posted on 6-May-2007 4:30:41
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Joined: 8-Mar-2003 Posts: 3045
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| @herewegoagain
Sorry if I'm starting to sound like Helgis, but this has me pretty excited. I fervently hope that the Amiga Inc/Hyperion squabble doesn't f*k this up.
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Steff
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Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core Posted on 6-May-2007 4:37:24
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Super Member |
Joined: 11-Mar-2003 Posts: 1342
From: Göteborg, Sweden | | |
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| @ackcontrls
Sounds cool!
If this system should make it to market any time soon and can run OS 4 (or something extremely similar) then I will certainly buy one.
I'll even make you a deal!
If you can produce these boards to sell by, let's say the end of this summer/beginning fall, then I'll buy two. That's a promise! (I'm assuming a price tag that doesn't run off towards the ridiculous).
There you go two guaranteed sales already! Now all you have to do is ramp up the production! _________________ Fixed A1G4XE 7455 RX933PC with fried CPU Sapphire Radeon 9100 128mb ESI Juli@ 24bit 192kHz Envy24HT Sil 680 Ultra Ata 133 E-ide SeaGate Barracuda 120gb 8mb cache |
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stianstr
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Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core Posted on 6-May-2007 5:10:36
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Joined: 25-May-2006 Posts: 55
From: Narvik, Norway | | |
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| Man, I hope there is some truth to this...
I'm sure gonna buy one :)
Heck I'll buy the low-end system too... :)
_________________ Stian Strřm, System developer, AmigaWeb.net |
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Hammer
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Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core Posted on 6-May-2007 5:49:58
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Joined: 9-Mar-2003 Posts: 5246
From: Australia | | |
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| @AmigaMac
Quote:
PPC 970 FX (aka G5) can serve up to 8 instructions per cycle, so what's the real bragging rights here, really?!
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Not quite... PowerPC 970's front end can dispatch/issue 4 instructions + 1 branch instruction. It can fetch 8 instructions from it's instruction cache. Can you see the bottle neck? Another issue with PowerPC 970 is its 23 stage pipeline i.e. similar weakness as Pentium IV Northwood design.
Like Core 2, Pentium IV Pescott's front end can also issue 4 instructions, but with 31 stage pipeline depth. In most benchmarks, Core 2 kills Prescott. Both Core2 and AMD64 has medium depth pipelines.
AMD64 can issue (from the front end) up to 6 instructions** (integer operations only) i.e. two instructions per instruction issue slot. **Some X86 instructions are instruction packed. Last edited by Hammer on 06-May-2007 at 06:09 AM. Last edited by Hammer on 06-May-2007 at 06:07 AM. Last edited by Hammer on 06-May-2007 at 05:56 AM.
_________________ Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68) Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68) |
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Hammer
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Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core Posted on 6-May-2007 6:35:46
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Joined: 9-Mar-2003 Posts: 5246
From: Australia | | |
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| @AmigaMac
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If PowerPC sucks so darn bad, why are all the game consoles (Xbox 360, PS3 and the Wii) using it?
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The price for the customisation. For X360, it's D3D dot product instruction. Such customised design didn't benefit the rest of the PPC vendors. You wouldn't see barebone PS3 motherboard cheaper than Sony's PS3. PPC market is disjointed like 68K PC market.
I don't think MS would like yet another Intel Celeron (Netburst) in it's next console.... AMD(ATI) is already capacity constrained and involved in X360's and Wii's GPUs._________________ Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68) Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68) |
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Hammer
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Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core Posted on 6-May-2007 6:48:14
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Elite Member |
Joined: 9-Mar-2003 Posts: 5246
From: Australia | | |
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| @herewegoagain
Quote:
I don't recall the last time I heard a user ask "what's the SpecInt2000"? when making a computer purchase. The most common questions are how many Gigahertz is it? How much RAM? What hard drive size? DVD-RW 16X Dual Layer? I hardly think this CPU would perform so poorly that everyone longs for their old 060 again.
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Funny that the laptop PC sales will have >50 percent of the market share in Q1 2008 and it's lower clocked than Pentium IV 3Ghz...
Anyway, AMD64 was gaining market share against its clock speed bias competitor i.e. Intel's Pentium IV. AMD was stomped with lower clocked Core 2... Last edited by Hammer on 06-May-2007 at 06:49 AM.
_________________ Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68) Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68) |
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Insanity
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Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core Posted on 6-May-2007 7:01:24
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Joined: 7-Aug-2005 Posts: 405
From: Sweden | | |
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| @CodeSmith
Quote:
it looks like its founder was the head designer for the DEC Alpha |
@hans
Great job, that was what I seemed to remember.
_________________ Yes I own an Amiga. A non-upgraded A500 that is unpacked once every 3 years.
If you are going to quote me, do so fully or not at all. /Ins |
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Mrodfr
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Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core Posted on 6-May-2007 7:01:42
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Super Member |
Joined: 28-Jan-2007 Posts: 1396
From: French | | |
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| hello,
I know nothing about cpu best than the other. My wish is to have a new amiga PPC for running AOS4 on (mean all working together for the amiga futur).
-I would like to use linux and maybe a mac emulator on the new amiga for the missing softwares (firefox, excel or word applications for example).
-The fact that having a low power consuption, and small heat inside the computer is verry important for me.
-I hope more than 1GHZ (1.2 to 1.4) is enough for that.
-I think a PCI express recent graphic card could help a lot.
-1go of ram semmed for me enough.
After the others specifications for me are details because my wish is really to see a new computer arrive with AOS4 of hyperion on that mean a gain ainc, hyperion, acube, ack,...... working together !!!!!!.
As you could see, I'm interested by a high end amiga PPC with AOS4 of hyperion ON. The prize for me isn't a problem because I'm waiting after the new computer with AOS4 on since years.
bye.
Thanks to ack for discuss with all, hyperion, ainc, acube, .... MUST DO the same. Last edited by Mrodfr on 06-May-2007 at 07:02 AM.
_________________ BTW, what you have done for the amiga today ????
-A1200+Mediator+VooDoo3+060/50+96mo+SCSI-KIT -SAM440EP-667mhz-on MapowerKC3000+AOS4.1
Amiga Docs Disks Preservation Project |
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coze
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Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core Posted on 6-May-2007 7:11:57
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Joined: 25-Feb-2005 Posts: 35
From: Chiba, Japan | | |
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| Am I the only one thinking that these new boards are just vapor to strengthen AInc case at the court ?
I won't believe any of this bull* until it's up here running on my desktop.
And, even if they did produce the board, how long do you think it will take to write the OS for it ? I think it will take a long, LONG time. If you think OS4 can be ported to this quickly, sorry but you're just dreaming. Also there's the problem that AInc doesn't have the OS4 sources, AFAIK. |
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Insanity
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Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core Posted on 6-May-2007 7:22:14
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Regular Member |
Joined: 7-Aug-2005 Posts: 405
From: Sweden | | |
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| @coze
this is from the ack chat-thread and is regarding the low end system.
Quote:
[08:48:35] Cav ack: are the computers debugged and ready to go? [08:48:39] ###ACKCONTROLS### Developer systems will be ready to ship to the select devs mid May'ish. |
So I guess you will find out soon.
(had to remove > < from around "Cav" since it would be interpreted as a html-tag otherwize)Last edited by Insanity on 06-May-2007 at 07:22 AM.
_________________ Yes I own an Amiga. A non-upgraded A500 that is unpacked once every 3 years.
If you are going to quote me, do so fully or not at all. /Ins |
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Shadowolf
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Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core Posted on 6-May-2007 7:32:37
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Joined: 22-Mar-2005 Posts: 137
From: Germany | | |
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| @ackcontrls Quote:
Nothing is going to make DrBombcrater or ShadowWolf happy, unless they want OS4 on x86. So it's really not worth discussing anything with them. Adam |
That's a pretty sad way to argue.
And you are all not listening.
To make it clear, I would love to see a board with either the PA-6T or the MPC8641 becoming available to run OS4 with.
That does not change the facts though that these CPU were designed for embedded applications and that it takes a lot of money to design a board around them. Plus that these are still not available apart from samples.
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Hammer
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Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core Posted on 6-May-2007 7:43:45
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Elite Member |
Joined: 9-Mar-2003 Posts: 5246
From: Australia | | |
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| @CodeSmith
Quote:
You're falling into the familiar trap of comparing artificial benchmarks across cpu architectures. PPC and x86 instruction sets are so different that the only benchmarks that really count are wall-clock ones. I'd like to see comparisons of say the time it takes to do a ray trace, or to encode a certain piece of music into MP3. Then we can do meaningful comparisons.
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Just recycle LAME encoder and Cinebench benchmarks.
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Wide range available? There are just a handful of NB chips than can talk Hypertransport, and in any case you're constrained by the 2000MT/s bandwidth so you can't just keep adding peripherals. The description of PCI express support is a bit confusing, but it sounds like you get what most x86 NBs give you: 1x16 and a few more lanes split between x8, x4, x2 and x1. Sure, you don't get 2x16 Crossfire support, but I think only one NB from NVidia supports that.
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In relation to "only one NB from NVidia supports that"... AMD's (CrossFire) Xpress 3200 chipset (aka RD580) supports dual 16X PEG. AMD's RD580 supports up to 40 PCI-Express lanes. RD580 connects to AMD64 CPU via HTT.
_________________ Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68) Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68) |
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adiaux
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Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core Posted on 6-May-2007 8:15:38
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Super Member |
Joined: 1-Jun-2006 Posts: 1249
From: Unknown | | |
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| @CodeSmith
Quote:
CodeSmith wrote: @Shadowolf
Oh, come on. You're splitting hairs here. What would you say is missing for the PASemi 1682M to be used as the basis for a "desktop system"? Just about the only thing I can come up with is "it won't run Windows" |
...and that's probably the major reason to why "Desktop" isn't listed as a suitable area of use on their webpage!
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adiaux
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Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core Posted on 6-May-2007 8:30:16
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Super Member |
Joined: 1-Jun-2006 Posts: 1249
From: Unknown | | |
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| @debrun
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No, wait... I'm serious. What WILL we run with all this power? |
Well, when using simple mail, the mail will open up *really fast*! Oh wait, they already do at 400MHz...
A valid question IMHO, especially at prices of $1500. Developers compiling stuff would naturally want this. A couple of "Powser Users" as well, just for the sake of it. But then?
Amiga's strength is running fine on *low power* hardware. That's where it can compete, that's where it has its home. An Amiga OS running on some *cheap* 400MHz hardware together with Hollywood, now that could be a *real* commercial product (the first in an Amiga context for a *very* long time)... |
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Metalheart
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Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core Posted on 6-May-2007 8:36:47
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Elite Member |
Joined: 21-Aug-2003 Posts: 2969
From: Somewhere in the Dutch mountains.... | | |
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| @takemehomegrandma
Quote:
Amiga OS running on some *cheap* 400MHz hardware together with Hollywood, now that could be a *real* commercial product (the first in an Amiga context for a *very* long time)... |
Yes, that would / could be a killer ! Here's hoping for someone to put that to market as a complete solution for cable companies, kiosks etc....
MartinLast edited by Metalheart on 06-May-2007 at 08:38 AM. Last edited by Metalheart on 06-May-2007 at 08:37 AM.
_________________ Theres a time to live and a time to die When its time to meet the maker Theres a time to live but isnt it strange That as soon as you're born you're dying |
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Shadowolf
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Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core Posted on 6-May-2007 8:37:22
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Regular Member |
Joined: 22-Mar-2005 Posts: 137
From: Germany | | |
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| Annother thing that just got to me.
What gfx-card is one supposed to use with a system like this?
A PCI Radeon?
What PCIe x16 cards are available that would at least work with 2D accelaration?
It's not like ATI or NVIDIA are supplying any information about cards after the Radeon series.
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