@Hans

Quote:

Your suggestion that Amiga Inc. has started writing an OS from scratch makes me wonder what would happen with all that code if an amicable agreement were reached. Having duplicate but incompatible efforts does not sound good.

Whats going to come out first? The mythical OS5 or the mythical cheap powerful PPC hardware?

@Thread

Oh and thread, can we not all jump down the neck of the first person that has a connection to Amiga Inc to post on these forums in years and try to blame him or take out your frustrations on him?

If its Bill you are angry at, be angry at Bill, not Jamie. Unless of course its your intention to drive him away, in which case please state that at the begining of your post (In the form of a disclaimer would do).

Last edited by SpaceDruid on 12-Jun-2009 at 05:54 PM.

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@Amigo1

we all know it can be pretty easy to hide behind some law postulating you have the right lawyers.

Nothing that I was disputing.

On the contrary they've lost credibility

Maybe, but to who ? You think we matter to them anyway ? We don't.

How about the credibility to their investors, who, apparently, want something else then us. A Inc wants OS4 back so they can keep the investors happy who have different plans for Amiga (yes, guess work but it seems very likely)

wasn't there a poll some years back asking for whom would group together to file a charge against them? I for my self have not the time nor the money to pay an attorney to have legal action against some outlandish firm to get a refund for the 100Eur I paid -gullibly and lightheaded.

Either because nobody who paid cared, except the few who posted on forums.. At any rate, if 1000 people had joined the costs might have been a bit more favourable, but I admit I don't know what it would have cost..

But if it's not worth it, then stop complaining as it's not a very productive thing to do.

The community should realize we are small fish, not worth the commercial effort. Even Hyperion targets the OS at a different direction then home use, we just benefit that they need a desktop OS and have some nice developers with a passion for the OS.

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@Lou

Can we agree to call them the "worse guys"?

We could, but wouldn't hell freeze over then ?

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Hi Jamie,

Stick with option #1. With all the hard work you have put into AVD, you deserve some reward for your efforts. Go for option 2 if you must, but I would avoid option #3. As much as the Amiga needs a system like AVD, I don't think you will ever see anything in return for releasing it open source. (You'd get a big 'Thank You' from the community, but that's about it.)

Just my $0.02

--Barry Steenbergh

@SpaceDruid

Whats going to come out first? The mythical OS5 or the mythical cheap powerful PPC hardware?

As a spacedruid shouldn't you know ?

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@fairlanefastback

Quote:

But Snowman maker is not what we want

What?! Speak for yourself dude. Personally, I agree with Bill McWEwen, and I think that Ostentatious Snowman 5 (ie OS5) is a fantastic product, and I do think it a very competitive product compared to Apple's lowly OSX. Certainly Amiga Inc's product has a much faster starting and easier to use Snowman Development Kit (ie SDK) compared to competing platforms/products. I downloaded Xcode from Apple, and I can't find anything in there about object classes such as twig arms, coal eyes, carrot noses, wool scarves, etc. They really need to work on adding these important object classes to their SDK, and I'm really not sure how OSX developers get by without them, they are doing strange different things instead like video editing tools, web browsers, office suite, etc. and it seems like Apple really doesn't care about Snowmen much at all. So, you see, Amiga Inc's Snowman program really has surpassed disinterested Apple and their OSX, and you all are foolish not to understand this.

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@Seer

Quote:

As a spacedruid shouldn't you know ?

Of course I do, I have both. But if I told you how long you had to wait, you might either stop buying copies of OS4 knowing how soon OS5 is going to appear, or you might lose faith and leave the community knowing how long you'd have to wait to get PPC hardware.

I already ruined things when I told your ancestors that they were mortal and they had to come up with this whole religious business and I'm not making that mistake again.

Apart from the time I mentioned you could split atoms, that was a slight error on my part as well. And the time I suggested you could find the Higgs Boson Particle by building a black hole creating Large Hadron Collider which would trap your world in a time loop until some passing aliens managed to reset time for you some six thousand years later might in some circles to have been a mistake as well, but that would just be nitpicking IMHO.

But the point is, I've learned from my mistakes this time. Probably.

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@JamieKrueger Quote:

From what I can see this legal battle continues to exist because Hyperion wishes it, and not because Amiga Inc. has not been willing to resolve the issue.

Sad to see that you have fallen under Bill McEwan's reality distortion field (which is a lot weaker than Steve Job's...). Most likely both parties share some responsibility for the continued legal battle (although I have little faith in Amiga Inc after all their shenanigans, e.g. the Kent events centre).

What is MORE interesting is that you have seemingly confirmed that there is still an on-going legal dispute between AI & Hyperion, which is at odds with some of us concluding that there must have been an out-of-court settlement because the last legal deadlines have long since expired without any more news. Sad if you are right, although that would leaves me puzzled about the state of the court case.

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@JamieKrueger

Quote:

** The following is strictly my personal opinion, and does not reflect the opinion of Amiga Inc.** The big problem; Hyperion and Amiga Inc. continue to debate the ownership of OS4

Absolutely. But if and when that is solved, the even bigger problem comes into the spotlight...
As a group, the companies involved could not achieve what they wished.
The question then that must be asked is "what makes either one of you think you can be more successful going solo?"

I realize that's a "loaded" question, especially for strong supporters, but it's a topic that comes up in private conversation more often than you might think...

#6

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@ChrisH

I was going to say, but I though that if I didn't mention it, it might go away and I could go back to my happy place. Grr, you and your pointing of this out!

It also helps understand the non movement towards x86 better than the rather flabby excuse offered By Hyperion about piracy and hardware choice. It makes much more sense that they are not making moves in that area because they are not allowed to make moves in that area rather than it being a matter of choice.

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(post removed because it was off-topic, and I kindly request that Fairlanefastback remove his quote of what I said too)

Last edited by ChrisH on 12-Jun-2009 at 08:52 PM.

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@SpaceDruid

Quote:

It also helps understand the non movement towards x86 better than the rather flabby excuse offered By Hyperion about piracy and hardware choice.

Quote:

It makes much more sense that they are not making moves in that area because they are not allowed to make moves in that area rather than it being a matter of choice.

Why couldn't both statements be true simultaneously?

#6

Last edited by number6 on 12-Jun-2009 at 06:23 PM.

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@SpaceDruid

Quote:

SpaceDruid wrote: @Thread Oh and thread, can we not all jump down the neck of the first person that has a connection to Amiga Inc to post on these forums in years and try to blame him or take out your frustrations on him?

Jamie brought up his opinions on some long standing controversial subjects. Differing opinions are natural (and desired) given its a discussion forum. You may not like what those differing opinions have to say. But that is not jumping down his throat.

Maybe Jamie is not even that familiar with the Seattle Times (and other mainstream newspaper) articles about the Kent affair. Maybe he is not too in tune with the ACK Amiga debacle, or the mocking articles in the tech press over the PR disaster that was the OS5 is "much better" than OSX nonsense.

Maybe this is the exact kind of stuff he needs to hear. So he can go back to his boss and be like, "wow no wonder we look like crap to the community, what are we going to do to fix this boss?".

Quote:

If its Bill you are angry at, be angry at Bill, not Jamie. Unless of course its your intention to drive him away, in which case please state that at the begining of your post (In the form of a disclaimer would do).

My intention was to respond to his post sincerely. Whether he decides to blame such frank responses as a driving away factor or if he brings these issues up with his boss to get communication fixed with the community is up to him as a grown-up.

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Response removed as per request of ChrisH in post #171.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 12-Jun-2009 at 09:42 PM.

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@number6

Quote:

Why couldn't both statements be true simultaneously?

The simple reason that I don't buy the reasons they have given. I don't see how they can regain the costs of developing OS4 by remaining in the PPC marketplace. While a port to x86 will cost additional money, the potential marketplace is far larger and they stand a far greater chance of recouping their money for both.

Its not as if they are posting, "we'd love to but can't afford it", they've stuck solidly to the line, "we see great things ahead with PPC and see no reason to change."

I just don't buy it. It sounds like spin to me. The up coming 8 core PPC sounds great in relation to existing x86, but x86 will have moved on considerably in that time and the goalposts will have changed again and I can never imagine a situation where the PPC will offer better value for money.

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@fairlanefastback

Quote:

You may not like what those differing opinions have to say. But that is not jumping down his throat.

Bringing up the Kent centre when he wasn't working for Amiga during that time and the voucher scandal have no bearing on his employement. He was in no better situation to know what was going on than any of us.

There is a lot of old arguments being brought up and because hes the only Amiga employee in range, everyone is shooting at him. He's defended Bills character and made his opinions about the legal case known. Both situations are relevant to his employment and comments about these things have relevance. Anything else is just people venting and I don't believe thats a fair thing to do.

Quote:

My intention was to respond to his post sincerely. Whether he decides to blame such frank responses as a driving away factor or if he brings these issues up with his boss to get communication fixed with the community is up to him as a grown-up.

My post wasn't directed specificaly at you. Lots of folks are venting. Its unlikely that his boss isn't already aware of these subjects since the constant barrage of them are most likely the reason they stopped posting on forums.

In anycase, is he more or less likely to stick around long enough to do as you desire if a thousand voices shout at once?

Last edited by SpaceDruid on 12-Jun-2009 at 07:11 PM.

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We really need a very good statement from Hyperion-entertainement or Amiga,Inc about this case. Is legal sill going?

Petrol.

@SpaceDruid

Quote:

Its not as if they are posting, "we'd love to but can't afford it", they've stuck solidly to the line, "we see great things ahead with PPC and see no reason to change." I just don't buy it. It sounds like spin to me.

Forgive me for narrowing my focus to just the above.
I've posted before that interests are divergent...not convirgent.
When one posts a statement like the above, I think it holds more meaning when an appropriate source is given.
The mere idea that what OS4team in whole or part, HJF&Thomas, Evert, Ben, etc. have the same goals/desires here is simply ludicrous.
btw, not using the term "ludicrous" to make fun of your post, but to accent mine.
This somewhat goes back to what I posted elsewhere numerous times about management. Amiga Inc. was charged with one duty I know of at the inception of this debacle...the management end. When they failed at this miserably, we ended up with a rather disjointed group of interests and direction. Ergo, sometimes you might read a quote from one person you identify with "Hyperion" in a bit of conflict with another. Remember the disclaimers though? Not speaking FOR Hyperion? Yet another reason why we can see opinions and statements from those we see as authority figures to be in direct conflict with one another.
Just something to think about...

#6

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@number6

You make a good point, but I've always assumed (perhaps wrongly?) the poster known as "Hyperionmp" was the official line since thats the account that announcement are made through.

I'm basing my above opinions on the posts from that single account and not the ones from individual developers that work for them.

Last edited by SpaceDruid on 12-Jun-2009 at 07:25 PM.

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@SpaceDruid

Quote:

SpaceDruid wrote: @fairlanefastback Quote: You may not like what those differing opinions have to say. But that is not jumping down his throat. Bringing up the Kent centre when he wasn't working for Amiga during that time and the voucher scandal have no bearing on his employement. He was in no better situation to know what was going on than any of us. There is a lot of old arguments being brought up and because hes the only Amiga employee in range, everyone is shooting at him. He's defended Bills character and made his opinions about the legal case known. Both situations are relevant to his employment and comments about these things have relevance. Anything else is just people venting and I don't believe thats a fair thing to do.

He brought up Bill's character and said we should cut him a break. But he gives no reason beyond some nebulous "(he) is (under) a near constant state of extreme pressure".

So of course he is going to get back reasons why its impossible for us to cut Bill a break without more info supporting his claims. If he wants to have us be sympathetic, despite all that has happened, give us some tangible reasons.

And I did not bring up the voucher scandal BTW. (Were you refering to someone else there?)

The arguments are not old in relevance at all. Kent, OS5 much better than OSX, AA2, these are all events within the last 2 to 3 years. And other ones still resonate because Amiga has never shown a better side to themselves to us. The most credible things to come out of Amiga recently were the hiring of Jamie and Fran. And that has not yielded us anything tangible.

You say (in essence) we should only count issues from his hire date. But the fact is we've been floored by the ridiculous things done before that. If Jamie can make a blanket statement that Bill is ok, we can respond as to why we would find that hard to believe without further info to the contrary. Add to this, the relationship we have is that Jamie and Bill work for a company (supposedly) trying to sell us goods one day, where we are potential customers. In such a relationship we can ask as many of the hard questions that we see fit. Thats business.

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