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number6 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 12-Jun-2009 18:33:44
#181 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9858
From: In the village

@SpaceDruid

Quote:
You make a good point, but I've always assumed (perhaps wrongly?) the poster known as "Hyperionmp" was the official line since thats the account that announcement are made through.


That's once account. The other is Evert Carton, who has posted under the nick @jorit here. And, as I said, I wish I could say that even the interests of Hyperionmp and jorit have always been convirgent, but I can not.

Quote:
I'm basing my above opinions on the posts from that single account and not the ones from individual developers that work for them.


ok. But we often see quotes taken from HJF and quoted as being in conflict while he continually mentions not being a spokeman for Hyperion. Sure...he has posted a lot in the past and is seen as the most visible "representative" regardless. But you have to ask yourself...is this because it became necessary to have a presence/voice here, since the posts from actual Hyperion owners are so few and far between? Please don't assume this is all by choice. Everyone here is a victim in some way and thrust into a role that would not normally be their 1st choice of things to do.

#6

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SpaceDruid 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 12-Jun-2009 18:51:16
#182 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2007
Posts: 1748
From: Inside the mind of a cow on a planet that's flying through space at 242.334765 miles per second.

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

He brought up Bill's character and said we should cut him a break. But he gives no reason beyond some nebulous "(he) is (under) a near constant state of extreme pressure".
The arguments are not old in relevance at all. Kent, OS5 much better than OSX, AA2, these are all events within the last 2 to 3 years. And other ones still resonate because Amiga has never shown a better side to themselves to us.

Quote:

If Jamie can make a blanket statement that Bill is ok, we can respond as to why we would find that hard to believe without further info to the contrary.


Do you have any evidence to support that Bill was behind the decision to go ahead with the Kent deal? We already know that others further up the chain were actively involved in the workings of the company, Bill was only acting president (or whatever title he had been given).

Bill is the public face of the company so its natural to blame him for everything thats gone on, but even going as far back as the vouchers, we have no way of knowing who it was that came up with the ideas. Back in the day, I had a PR guy who made all my announcements for me, took all the flack went things went wrong and was the guy the press came down on like a ton of bricks whenever a fall guy was needed.

Is it not possible that Bill still is the same guy we liked initially, that has had to make statements and chose actions that went against his opinion, but were given to him from on high and that is still trying his best to give us what he origionaly hoped to despite all the roadblocks that are being thrown in front of him?

Perhaps that is what Jamie means? Afterall, if Bill was the man behind some of the things that have gone on, both of us have struggled to understand why he still holds his job. If those ideas were not his own, it goes a long way to understanding why he does still hold the job.

Also, in the long post that Jamie made, most of it was about AVD and how working for Amiga affects development of it. He wrote a small part of that post about Bill and Hyperions motives, most of it was not relevant to what most of the posts in reply have been about and at the time of posting only a couple have answered his question.

But because he did open that doorway, most of the posts since then have been charging through the house, trampling the nice white carpet with their muddy boots demanding to know where the party is. (That analogy might be crap, but its very relevant to whats happening in my house at the moment making me wish this thread happened yesterday or tommorow instead of bloody now... Appologies for the dreadful mess I'm making of the quoting)

Quote:

And I did not bring up the voucher scandal BTW. (Were you refering to someone else there?)


Well I did address my first post to the thread than to any individual so yes is your answer.

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SpaceDruid 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 12-Jun-2009 19:04:16
#183 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2007
Posts: 1748
From: Inside the mind of a cow on a planet that's flying through space at 242.334765 miles per second.

@number6

Didn't anybody learn from the mistake of the past? Its bad enough folks don't have disclaimers in their sigs, but when its hard to tell official stuff from personal when it both sounds official, then thats a recipe for disaster in a community that reacts so dramaticaly to a single word.

I've made a point of telling DiscreteFX members (? - sorry if I got that wrong,, lots of distractions in my house at the moment) off for that kind of stuff and apart from their buyout farce, they don't have any real influence about anything (sorry if thats harsh). Its just about maintaining a professional reputation as that means more than people realise (especialy Amiga Inc) and I try to help out Amiga companies when I can.

With Hyperion, I wouldn't know where to start other than to point out its a ticking timebomb.

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fairlanefastback 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 12-Jun-2009 19:11:07
#184 ]
Team Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4874
From: New York, USA

@SpaceDruid

Quote:
Bill was only acting president (or whatever title he had been given).


As the media attention mounted he changed his presented title to that yes. I have no idea if that should be believed or not, as in the initial press conference he went by president is my recollection. It would seem odd to keep the same spokesperson, yet make them mention their supposed recent demotion. To me its more logical that as the heat mounted he tried to divert things to that supposed mystery investor who could not be reached by cell phone because he was traveling in Europe at the time. But thats merely my opinion. Conversely, your use of "only" is you trying to minimize his role down to what you'd hope be the case.

Regardless of how much of what he said then was of his own choosing or someone else's he has always chose to stay with this firm, no matter how bad they have taken things. Thats not saying much of anything good about the man frankly. The being a good little soldier excuse can only last so long.

Quote:
Perhaps that is what Jamie means? Afterall, if Bill was the man behind some of the things that have gone on, both of us have struggled to understand why he still holds his job. If those ideas were not his own, it goes a long way to understanding why he does still hold the job.


It could mean he does hold a good amount of power, it could mean that those that think Amiga, Inc. exists for other reasons may be right (as ChrisH alluded to).

Either way Bill's language has often personalized the messages of the company. And he knows that many put their faith in *his* presentation and *his* word and *his* salesmanship. No matter what way you slice it, he holds a good deal of responsibility in this.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 12-Jun-2009 at 07:12 PM.

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SpaceDruid 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 12-Jun-2009 19:21:44
#185 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2007
Posts: 1748
From: Inside the mind of a cow on a planet that's flying through space at 242.334765 miles per second.

@fairlanefastback

I'm not necessary disagreeing with you, I'm just offering an explaination to what Jamie might have been alluding to. The trouble with any explaination is that we lack essential facts needed to make informed judgement and since Amiga is a private company, there is no reason why Amiga Inc would change that.

Meanwhile we have somebody who does have insider info, that has an established reputation within the community who has given an opinon. Admittably that opinion is not without bias, but I don't think it should be ignored.



Edit: I'm going to have to leave this interesting conversation for the day since I'm being rather rude towards my guests. That and the beer keg has been opened and I doubt I can continue to post in English.

No you are not seeing double. I posted this edit in another thread. I'm rappidly loosing the ability to remember which thread was the interesting one so I'm posting this in both

Last edited by SpaceDruid on 12-Jun-2009 at 07:26 PM.
Last edited by SpaceDruid on 12-Jun-2009 at 07:24 PM.

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number6 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 12-Jun-2009 19:32:26
#186 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9858
From: In the village

@SpaceDruid

Quote:
Didn't anybody learn from the mistake of the past? Its bad enough folks don't have disclaimers in their sigs, but when its hard to tell official stuff from personal when it both sounds official, then thats a recipe for disaster in a community that reacts so dramaticaly to a single word.


Lest I repeat myself...people have been thrust into roles they would prefer not to play. Sorry, but that's just how it is.

Quote:
I've made a point of telling DiscreteFX members (? - sorry if I got that wrong,, lots of distractions in my house at the moment) off for that kind of stuff and apart from their buyout farce, they don't have any real influence about anything (sorry if thats harsh).


As you well know, there is no interest in acquiring Amiga Inc. by DiscreetFX, be it BillP. Ted, whoever...

Quote:
and I try to help out Amiga companies when I can.


As I may have indicated in this thread

You can't really help out in a closed society, other than offer your thoughts.
If the legal mess ceased to exist and there was a unified leadership, then you might even see a general "cattle call" to take advantage of all the wasted talent we've all seen, who are currently shut out from participating.

#6

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ChrisH 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 12-Jun-2009 19:49:08
#187 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@SpaceDruid Quote:
While a port to x86 will cost additional money, the potential marketplace is far larger and they stand a far greater chance of recouping their money for both.

You make a convincing argument! Not that Hyperion have to be entirely rational in their decisions (or, for example, they would have tried working with Genesi again, when the A1s were no-longer produced)...

But rather than Amiga Inc & the court case being the reason, it is possible that the global recession may make it VERY difficult to borrow the money required for the x86 port (PPC JIT & all).

Last edited by ChrisH on 12-Jun-2009 at 08:09 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 12-Jun-2009 at 07:50 PM.

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ChrisH 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 12-Jun-2009 20:08:18
#188 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@JamieKrueger Quote:
1.) Keep the sources, and hope the wind changes soon, and conditions become more favorable for continued development of AVD for AmigaOS4.

2.) Sell the sources to another company to finish. (I would only consider doing this if
the company that bought them was actually going to release a completed version of
AVD for AmigaOS4, and remained true to the Free release of FreeAVD.)

3.) Release the sources under an Open Source license and allow other developers to
continue my work from here, hopefully with the financial support of the community
(as a free build for the public would always be required).

Now I have rambled on long enough. I leave it to you, which of the above three choices do
you consider the best choice? Do you have any other ideas that would guarantee the release
of AVD to the Amiga community?

Since so few people have replied to your request, I am offering my opinion even though I never contributed towards AVD: Given how long things have taken, I do not believe that option 1 is a sensible bet (and AVD looses it's worth every day). I am also skeptical that there is any Amiga company who would make option 2 viable. This leaves option 3, and there are enough Amiga coders left that surely something could be done with it.

So I choose option 3 as the most realistic, even if it isn't the most desirable in an ideal world.

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fairlanefastback 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 12-Jun-2009 20:09:43
#189 ]
Team Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4874
From: New York, USA

@SpaceDruid

Quote:
The trouble with any explaination is that we lack essential facts needed to make informed judgement and since Amiga is a private company, there is no reason why Amiga Inc would change that.


Even a private company needs to worry about its public reputation and the opinion of its potential customers.

Quote:
Meanwhile we have somebody who does have insider info, that has an established reputation within the community who has given an opinon. Admittably that opinion is not without bias, but I don't think it should be ignored.


I'm not ignoring it. I'm making sure Jamie knows why we would find that opinion hard to believe easily. I encourage him to elaborate on his point. If we really have the wrong impression about a person or company I certainly would want it corrected. Amiga and its employees need to realize though that they collectively have dug quite a hole for themselves so far. So in order to turn around public opinion they will need to put some real effort into it and give us some really honest answers. This "Please see the answer to question 4" and "NDA, NDA, NDA" stuff no longer cuts it. Plenty of firms share screenshots of upcoming work, have developer blogs, etc.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 12-Jun-2009 at 08:13 PM.

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Controller 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 12-Jun-2009 20:13:54
#190 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-Sep-2003
Posts: 131
From: Unknown

@JamieKrueger

I was one of your customers for AVD and was very excited about it.

I was aware that it was not a finished product when I bought it. I bought it to support the development in the hope that this software would help make more new software for OS4.

I think that the only option if AVD should be developed further is to release under an open source license.

As waiting for better times who knows when that will be. As for selling the source to another company to finish what company would be interested in that when most of the potential buyers have already paid for the product?

I fully understand that you could not finish the product and I took a chance when I bought it. I must say I think the product is dead unless it is released soon. But luckily things have moved on since you left the community and I think that Simon Achers CodeBench looks very promising.

Kind regard
Controller

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KimmoK 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 12-Jun-2009 20:31:02
#191 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5049
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

To me it seems that option 3 is getting most votes.

It might be the best of all.

Then the community could develop and port AVD to any Amigalike platform they desire (AOS3.x, MOS1.4+,MOS2,AOS4,HyperOS5,AmigaOS5 and AROS.

Perhaps we would even see an environment that enables to compile (c++) once and run on every Amigalike platform.

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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fairlanefastback 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 12-Jun-2009 20:41:34
#192 ]
Team Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4874
From: New York, USA

@all

Option 3. Then we can make bounties and get the work hopefully finished.

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amitv 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 12-Jun-2009 20:55:07
#193 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Oct-2006
Posts: 342
From: Unknown

with your post you raised up some question: if ainc is actively developing os5, why should be interessed in OS4? What are the ainc real intentions?

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 12-Jun-2009 21:05:43
#194 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3311
From: Unknown

@amitv

Theory: http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbthread.pl/amiga/expand/162665

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JamieKrueger 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 13-Jun-2009 5:45:58
#195 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2004
Posts: 146
From: From the BITbyBIT lab: USA

@all

Wow, I knew when I wrote my post that there would be plenty
of opinions thrown out there, but I must say some of you should
to try and control that anger, it's not good for your health.

I do appreciate all the feedback, especially from those who
answered my question of the fate of AVD. I am sorry I don't
have the time to answer each of you in turn, but let me try
to cover some of it here.

First of all, it is my fault for venting about the legal battles
going on and expressing my frustration with them, that the
main point (or rather question to the community) got lost in
the mix. But I did not post this to restart a flame war
against Amiga Inc., Hyperion, or anyone else.

I am NOT Amiga Inc., nor their spokesperson, and especially
not their lap dog.
I am also not a noob, I have been in the Amiga
game since it's early days and been there through all the pain
and suffering. And yes, I too own a T-shirt that is too small to
wear and a $50 coupon I can frame on my wall.

Do not mistake my statements for those of a blindly loyal,
or misguided individual. I am neither. I accepted the job at
Amiga Inc. for several reasons but one of the biggest was
to have the chance to make things better. I would challenge
any of you out there doing nothing but complaining about
the state of events, to actually take as much action to try
and improve them.

On the subject of Bill McEwen, I am not blind to the mistakes he
has made in the past, he admits to them as much himself and
regrets them more then you are likely to ever know. I also was
not trying to defend any of his actions, past or present. My only
point was that no one person deserves to be crucified for
everything you believe went wrong over the years.

It is a fact that more goes on behind the scenes at a given company,
and for many different reasons, than most of us ever get to see.
Much less understand all the motives behind a given decision.
Even as direct employee you are not always privy to what goes
on and why. I for one would never claim to have such complete
knowledge or insight.

Having said that let me clarify, or perhaps even amend, my comments
concerning Hyperion and the ongoing legal battle over OS4. When I
accepted the job at Amiga Inc. all indications were that both Amiga
Inc. and Hyperion were close to a resolution and both were looking
forward to doing so quickly. That was a year and a half ago, and to
my understanding it was Hyperion's lawyers that walked away from
the negotiating table. Why?? Who knows? I certainly don't understand
it. But it does make me think that maybe Hyperion's only fault is
listening to their lawyers. Now, please understand me, I don't believe
this is all a one sided deal here. The blame has to be laid on both
sides, of that I am sure. Again let me stress, that this is only my
opinion based on what I understand to have transpired,
I could be wrong.


Everything that has occurred thus far in front of the judge or in court,
should be available as public record. So if you can provide proof that
I am mistaken, then I'll gladly admit it. At this point though, I do not
intend to discuss the matter further and have no real insight on the
actual events, only opinion and frustration.

Now, if you will allow me, I'll try to steer this thread back on topic.
That topic being, the future plans for the completion of AVD for
AmigaOS4.

Hardware and the SAM440: I did not mean to ignore the SAM boards
for new or available OS4 hardware. I was under the impression that
so far the numbers were limited, and had some issues running OS4
stable. If I am mistaken about that, then great.

AVD and Open Source:
Right now I am leaning toward keeping the sources in house for
the rest of this year and see if I can get my A1 machine(s)
running again and continue development. I am still interested
in the more feedback on this. One again,
1) Keep AVD private, and try to continue development.
2) Sell AVD to another developer to finish it.
3) Release AVD as Open Source for the community devs to complete.

Best Regards,

Jamie

_________________
Jamie Krueger
BITbyBIT Software Group LLC
jamie@bitbybitsoftwaregroup.com
PLEASE NOTE: I only speak for myself and my company,
and am not a spokesperson for Amiga Inc.

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Hans 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 13-Jun-2009 6:23:51
#196 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4789
From: New Zealand

@JamieKrueger

If you were to open-source it, would you continue to work on it yourself? I ask this because so many projects have been open-sourced in the hope that someone else would pick it up, but nothing ever happens.

My preference would be for option 1, provided that you are able to continue development. Failing that, option 3 would be okay, so long as you are still involved. Any option in which you no longer work on it is a waste of time, IMHO.

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Swisso 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 13-Jun-2009 6:34:53
#197 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Mar-2004
Posts: 211
From: Bournemouth

@JamieKrueger
Fraid i don't know exactly what AVD is, but i do know how difficult it is to get A1XE boards up and running again having successfully repaired 2 of them. I hasten to add that i did not do this by myself; A-Cube, fellow amigans, perseverence and a bit of generosity go a long way in Amigaland!
I would however say to you that you are looking at around 18months total to get your A1 running.
Given the time frame does that still allow you to consider keeping AVD private? What about borrowing time on another machine while you are waiting for yours to be fixed. I know DiscreetFX have access to one, what i don't know is how friendly you all are with each other over there.?

Last edited by Swisso on 13-Jun-2009 at 07:12 AM.

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er....CDTV!

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Benji 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 13-Jun-2009 7:16:52
#198 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Nov-2003
Posts: 573
From: Cheltenham or London, UK

@JamieKrueger

FWIW I agree with pretty much everything you are saying. Also I think there is a notable percentage of people waiting for resolution between Hyperion and Amiga Inc that will not spend a penny on OS4 until that happens.

AVD is probably one of the more important software releases for the platform at the moment - so as (speedy!) legal resolution should add alot more users AND developers I would go with option 1 still, but put a time-frame on it...

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petrol 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 13-Jun-2009 10:44:08
#199 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 25-Jun-2004
Posts: 368
From: France

@JamieKrueger

Have you ever seen any form of AmigaOS5 (and not AmigaDE) running?

Petrol.

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d0c 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 13-Jun-2009 10:47:15
#200 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Sep-2004
Posts: 896
From: UK

i also want to know if you jamie have seen any aos5.0, do you also got any info of what happen to amiga india?

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