@JamieKrueger

Quote:

Now, if you will allow me, I'll try to steer this thread back on topic. That topic being, the future plans for the completion of AVD for AmigaOS4.

Actually that is not the topic of this thread. The topic of this thread is "Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger". If you want a topic about the future plans of AVD for AOS4 thats fine of course, just create one.

Quote:

Wow, I knew when I wrote my post that there would be plenty of opinions thrown out there, but I must say some of you should to try and control that anger, it's not good for your health.

Perhaps you don't mean to do it. But what you just did in that statement amounts to being one of the oldest tricks in the book. Instead of addressing questions based on a series of factual information declare that those trying to frankly discuss something are angry. I don't see anyone angry here. So lets stow that diversionary statement (whether intended as such or not). You are free to answer what you want and ignore addressing what you want.

Quote:

I am NOT Amiga Inc., nor their spokesperson, and especially not their lap dog. I am also not a noob, I have been in the Amiga game since it's early days and been there through all the pain and suffering. And yes, I too own a T-shirt that is too small to wear and a $50 coupon I can frame on my wall.

Hmm, "lap dog"? Now who is it here that is really being emothional, you or people you called "angry"? No one called you a lap dog. No one implied that you are a lap dog. Indeed it was mentioned in the thread that your being hired along with Fran Dramis were two of the most credible things Amiga, Inc. had done in recent memory. Thats a nod of respect to you sir, not an insult.

Quote:

On the subject of Bill McEwen, I am not blind to the mistakes he has made in the past, he admits to them as much himself and regrets them more then you are likely to ever know. I also was not trying to defend any of his actions, past or present. My only point was that no one person deserves to be crucified for everything you believe went wrong over the years.

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. The problem here is that you cringe at all the bad things there are to discuss, and view their mere discussion as a crucification. Bill's relationship to us is as president to a company that in theory is trying to sell us goods as consumers. And the list of issues is unfortunately long. None of those issues are the fault of us, the consumers.

And you do defend him here, you say he "regrets (his mistakes) more then you are likely to ever know". You have made a choice to believe that he is sincere. Much of the community does not share that impression. So since you are so much closer to the situation, please, help us understand. Because the truth is many folks would like nothing better than to gain some explanations about what was going throughs folks heads with Kent, OS5 talk of being ahead of schedule, etc. Help us out here Jamie.

Quote:

It is a fact that more goes on behind the scenes at a given company, and for many different reasons, than most of us ever get to see. Much less understand all the motives behind a given decision. Even as direct employee you are not always privy to what goes on and why. I for one would never claim to have such complete knowledge or insight.

Fair enough. But the community has always had an open ear for explainations, and part of the job of any company is to understand when they have shaken consumer confidence and work to really fix it. So lets be frank. You work for a damn small firm, how much of a mystery can everything be? So help us, is ADI real, with 60+ active employees in India? Why did you talk as if OS5 is not started but Bill talked as if it were much further along back in 2007. Help us understand. And if your NDA stops you, go to your boss and explain how damaged the company rep truly is.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 13-Jun-2009 at 01:00 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 13-Jun-2009 at 12:59 PM.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@JamieKrueger

Are there any signs of an OS being made in your company? Some people really want to know that.

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote: Hmm, "lap dog"? Now who is it here that is really being emothional, you or people you called "angry"? No one called you a lap dog. No one implied that you are a lap dog.

I think he's referring to post #153 here

_________________
Proud Amigan since 1987
Owner of various Commodore and a SAM440ep\OS4.1FE
See them on http://retro.furinkan.org/

Ehrn, forgot to add the intopic part

I'd take options 1-2-3 in that exact order.

1: i think that if you keep your "baby" with you until - say - at least a stable "1.0" release, it's better for yourself too. After that you could reconsider your options.

2-3: sometimes, opensource's success is just a myth. History is full of dead opensource projects or projects that once were closed source and when opensourced suffered a slow death because they couldn't find a dedicated team.
If you will be able to find some company/people willing to buy your sources you will have the advantage of an immediate income for yourself and the buyer will be in need to get some earnings from the product, so he will be motivated to keep it going.
Maybe you could try to throw in the deal some form of clause that will oblige him to keep the free version too at least until some certain version (f.ex. 1.0) or that if he can't deliver in a certain amount of time it will be automatically opensourced.

_________________
Proud Amigan since 1987
Owner of various Commodore and a SAM440ep\OS4.1FE
See them on http://retro.furinkan.org/

@JamieKrueger

Quote:

I would challenge any of you out there doing nothing but complaining about the state of events, to actually take as much action to try and improve them.

Excellent thought and attitude Jamie, but here's the problem (and you spoke to it in your last post in this thread)

Quote:

While the ownership of OS4 remains in doubt, how many big hardware manufacturers do you think are going to approach either Hyperion or Amiga Inc. saying, let's build two million units of 'X' that runs OS4?

Obviously this kind of thinking is not limited to a potential hardware partner, but to anyone interested in any aspect concerning AmigaOS. Potential software developers often start a conversation with questions about how the legal process is going, indicating it's a strong factor in deciding whether to devote time/money to AmigaOS.
I posted this in another thread and believe it to be true:
Quote:

You can't really help out in a closed society, other than offer your thoughts. If the legal mess ceased to exist and there was a unified leadership, then you might even see a general "cattle call" to take advantage of all the wasted talent we've all seen, who are currently shut out from participating.

My reference to "closed society" should be obvious. Participation is not encouraged. In fact, silence often envelops amigaland because of the legal situation. Jamie, this makes communication difficult to impossible and without communication, the mere discussions on how to make Amigaland better for all can never take place.

Please don't take this the wrong way. Of course development continues and some progress is made. But the root issues I think you refer to are left unattended.

Added: Your option (3) makes the most sense at this time

#6

Last edited by number6 on 13-Jun-2009 at 02:59 PM.

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@JamieKrueger

Thanks for your recent posts.

Regarding the AVD project, IMHO you should go with option 1 as your 1st choice and option 3 as your backup plan. It sounds to me as if you would like to finish AVD yourself, afterall, you have a vested interest in the project and a vision of what you want AVD to become.

I appreciate that you are expressing your own private opinions on the other matters. We are a tough crowd. Some agree and others do not. We should not take out our feelings on you.

Thanks for your recent post #195. It helps explain some things.

---
redfox

Last edited by redfox on 13-Jun-2009 at 05:17 PM.
Last edited by redfox on 13-Jun-2009 at 05:07 PM.

@JamieKrueger
Quote:

Wow, I knew when I wrote my post that there would be plenty of opinions thrown out there, but I must say some of you should to try and control that anger, it's not good for your health.

I have fallen down my post here for a year or so because of the anger that exists here. I feel bad of comments I get when trying to defend Amiga Inc or Bill McEwen.

@All
I have not followed the whole story in real time but I have read my way through Amiga Inc's history from 1999 to now.
What I found is that the Amiga Inc / Bill McEwen had very bad luck. Bill has made promises that have not been because of this bad luck.
Bill tried to repair the mistakes of other promises which did not they have been held also because of this bad luck.
Misfortune can often be attributed to the money but also other participants who drew the other way.

I think we ever have to leave all this behind us. Bill McEwen seems to be a good person who wants nothing else than to succeed come forward with their Amiga projects.

The Forum has responded to the Bill lapses as if he is on the list of the 10 most dangerous people.

Please everyone, put down the criticism based on anger, feel free to criticize constructively.

The Jamie Krueger writes in his post gives answers to some questions that many of us have fun in a stupid way around. I guess:

1. Jamie Krueger really work for Amiga Inc. So there is active work of Amiga Inc
2. Development of a new OS is ongoing into Amiga Inc
3. Jamie Krueger working with a visualt development tools for the new OS (?).

This means, in short, to Amiga Inc living and working in at least one project.

Amiga Inc has learned its lesson not to promise too much.
They have also learned to develop their things in the house and to keep quiet about what you do. Hire out development work is very risky when the developers often want to have the code for themselves and as often trying to make more money on the code beyond what the customer paid.


I think Amiga Inc will surprise us in a positive direction in future.

Last edited by linnar on 13-Jun-2009 at 11:54 PM.
Last edited by linnar on 13-Jun-2009 at 11:52 PM.

_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

Bad luck or not, a company's CEO collecting errors and mistakes leaves his place.

_________________
A1200/020+68882 - 6 MB RAM - AmigaOS 3.0

Home Recording Audio

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

Perhaps you don't mean to do it. But what you just did in that statement amounts to being one of the oldest tricks in the book. Instead of addressing questions based on a series of factual information declare that those trying to frankly discuss something are angry. I don't see anyone angry here. So lets stow that diversionary statement (whether intended as such or not). You are free to answer what you want and ignore addressing what you want. etc...

As a moderator you should really think about what you write, you sound really angry yourself in your post and there is really no point in doing that, do you really think you will get a proper reply?

_________________
www.EtherealWorld.com

@fairlanefastback
Quote:

Fair enough. But the community has always had an open ear for explainations, and part of the job of any company is to understand when they have shaken consumer confidence and work to really fix it. So lets be frank. You work for a damn small firm, how much of a mystery can everything be? So help us, is ADI real, with 60+ active employees in India? Why did you talk as if OS5 is not started but Bill talked as if it were much further along back in 2007. Help us understand. And if your NDA stops you, go to your boss and explain how damaged the company rep truly is.

alot of people want to know this thats for sure....


@MoonSire

fairlanefastback is not angry he is honest...

_________________
I was a ZX Spectrum owner....

@Nibunnoichi

Quote:

Nibunnoichi wrote: @fairlanefastback Quote: fairlanefastback wrote: Hmm, "lap dog"? Now who is it here that is really being emothional, you or people you called "angry"? No one called you a lap dog. No one implied that you are a lap dog. I think he's referring to post #153 here

Ahh. Thanks. I missed that.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@MoonSire

Quote:

MoonSire wrote: @fairlanefastback Quote: Perhaps you don't mean to do it. But what you just did in that statement amounts to being one of the oldest tricks in the book. Instead of addressing questions based on a series of factual information declare that those trying to frankly discuss something are angry. I don't see anyone angry here. So lets stow that diversionary statement (whether intended as such or not). You are free to answer what you want and ignore addressing what you want. etc... As a moderator you should really think about what you write, you sound really angry yourself in your post and there is really no point in doing that, do you really think you will get a proper reply?

Well if you are not willing to take me at my word that I am not angry, then I am not quite sure what I can do for you, beyond repeat that I am not and say that is not the impression I am wishing to portray. That said, I have always tended to be direct and thorough, and I have never shied away from asking any of the "tough" questions. But that goes not just for Amiga, it goes for Genesi, Hyperion, DiscreetFX, anyone. And I stand by my posting history supporting that statement.

I will also repeat again, Jamie's hiring was the most credible thing Amiga has done in years, and again, thats paying him a compliment. That dosen't mean in my book he is not someone any of us need to avoid having a frank conversation with. If he is capable of posting about Hyperion vs. Amiga in the court case, and OS5, and Bill deserving a break from the community. Well then he should be capable of clearing the air a bit on why he thinks he is right and that prevailing opinion is wrong. My questions are meant to allow him to do just that. They are "tough" questions because a lot of really bizarre stuff that has gone on over the years, quite the soap opera in fact, but I did not create any of those situations, the companies involved did. I am merely asking about them and how Jamie got to his stated conclusions about them.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 13-Jun-2009 at 11:39 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 13-Jun-2009 at 11:38 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 13-Jun-2009 at 11:37 PM.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@d0c

Quote:

fairlanefastback is not angry he is honest...

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@d0c

OS5 is simply going to be a rebranded AROS like they did with those old Amiga games running UAE without crediting UAE.

@linnar

Quote:

2. Development of a new OS is ongoing HOR Amiga Inc 3. Jamie Krueger working with a visualt development tools for the new OS (?). This means, in short, to Amiga Inc living and working in at least one project.

What do you mean by "HOR"?

Where did you get that Jamie was working on a new OS, let alone the tools he is using?

Quote:

This means, in short, to Amiga Inc living and working in at least one project.

Well Jamie implied its not OS5. And AA2 has been at a standstill with one AA2 developer in the last couple of days claiming Amiga, Inc. has been skipping out of a bill of a few hundred dollars or thereabouts. number6 posted that he has heard other similar stories as well.

So given the latest releases have been Snowmanmaker and Tipcalc as far as I know, Jamie may well only be working on similar cell phone apps.

The point is, we don't know what he is working on, but we do know what he implied Amiga, Inc. has not started and thats OS5, the most likely product this community would care about.

Quote:

Amiga Inc has learned its lesson not to promise too much

There is a difference between what one promises and what one says they have already accomplished. Some of what Bill said they already accomplished on OS5 does not seem to be compatible in my view with what Jamie posted about it.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 13-Jun-2009 at 11:40 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 13-Jun-2009 at 11:34 PM.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@JamieKrueger

Quote:

JamieKrueger wrote: Hardware and the SAM440: I did not mean to ignore the SAM boards for new or available OS4 hardware. I was under the impression that so far the numbers were limited, and had some issues running OS4 stable. If I am mistaken about that, then great.

Sam440ep and the new Flex model seem to be produced at a steady pace, not in huge numbers, but apparently more or less matched to the current demand. The current OS4.1 for Sam is labeled as a beta, and it - as well as the UBoot - has some known outstanding issues, which are being worked on. But I think it would be fair to say the Sam is no less stable than the A1. It might feel a little slower as a development machine, of course, but only for stuff like compiling, not for general use, editing etc.

Quote:

AVD and Open Source: Right now I am leaning toward keeping the sources in house for the rest of this year and see if I can get my A1 machine(s) running again and continue development. I am still interested in the more feedback on this. One again, 1) Keep AVD private, and try to continue development. 2) Sell AVD to another developer to finish it. 3) Release AVD as Open Source for the community devs to complete.

I'd support your idea of going for option 1, at least for some time yet. If you get to the point where you have to give that up, maybe you could try number 2. I don't know how much you'd demand for a sale, but if you don't find a suitable buyer, and the price seems part of the reason, an alternative to falling back on option 3 could be to find someone who would take over the project cheaper or for free, while still keeping it under the control of one person or group. It might have a greater chance of staying active than with a complete open-sourcing. Especially if it would be possible for you to stay in touch in a sort of consulting role or something.

Best regards,

Niels

Edit: I agree with the opinion that this discussion really could deserve a fresh thread of its own.

Last edited by nbache on 13-Jun-2009 at 11:44 PM.

@fairlanefastback
Quote:

What do you mean by "HOR"?

I write only in my language and then translate. I entered a wrong letter, so the translation was not done. It must be "into".

_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

@JamieKrueger

How did this:
Quote:

for me to write software for a potentially competing OS (even personally), would be a breach of my contract. So as long as Hyperion and Amiga Inc. are in conflict, and I remain working for Amiga Inc., development of AVD for AmigaOS4 remains frozen. ... 1.) Keep the sources, and hope the wind changes soon, and conditions become more favorable for continued development of AVD for AmigaOS4.

Turn into this:
Quote:

1) Keep AVD private, and try to continue development.

In the first quote option 1 says that you cannot develope AVD at the present time, while in the second quote option 1 implies that you can develope it right now (with difficulty). I do not believe you meant to change the meaning, so therefore can you please clarify it, or people may be mislead.

I still say that it is not realistic to hope the Amiga Inc vs Hyperion situation to improve any time soon (if it has not already done so), so choosing option 1 would simply be choosing the death of AVD. The longer AVD's release (source code or otherwise) is delayed, the less value it has, partly because other people work on their own solutions.

Last edited by ChrisH on 14-Jun-2009 at 09:59 AM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 14-Jun-2009 at 09:59 AM.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@ChrisH

I second that. Any delay releasing it makes no sense.

Last edited by Amigo1 on 14-Jun-2009 at 01:43 PM.

Jamie's software is great: professionally coded, stable and highly useful. I love the SDK browser.

Three years ago Jamie would have had the market to himself - there was no other purpose-written development environment specifically for OS4.

However, that is no longer the case: Rigo's Codebench covers pretty much the same territory and is written by a key member of the OS4 community with great access to the "internals" of OS4.

Sadly, I'm not so sure there is a future for AVD unless someone took it on in order for it to become a cross-platform development environment covering OS4, MorphOS, 3.x and AROS. A single IDE for all the major branches would be exceptionally cool, especially if it cross-compiled. And yes, I am aware (and use) Cubic.

_________________
Happiness is mandatory.
MindSpace: MindMaps and UML diagrams for OS4

We ran 5 Recursion Computer Fairs before hitting the exit condition