Those calling *loudly and insistently* for an x86 port... do you really think you are so clever as to be the first to think of this?

This has been hashed, and rehashed over and over for years...

The problem is (primarily) money and licensing.

Hyperion has spent sooooooo much money creating Amiga OS 4.1, which they haven't recouped and aren't likely to any time soon given the niche appeal of AOS.

And these (x86 or bust) threads ask Hyperion to burn mountains more cash to give us an x86 version of a very niche OS.

How greedy are we?

As much as Hyperion has done for Amiga's future, and as much money as they have spent without recoup,

Who here presumes to tell Hyperion they haven't done enough!

Who here presumes to tell Hyperion they must spend themselves further into debt (on AOS) or else "we just don't understand their hesitation".

Maybe Hyperion simply doesn't want to throw more good money after bad simply because we (the Amiga community) think we deserve an x86 port.

Given how much money Hyperion has already spent bringing us Amiga OS 4.1, why should we feel only Hyperion should pay a high cost to bring the Amiga back? I for one feel that if Hyperion can spend millions upfront to bring Amiga back, I can spend maybe $300 extra on the hardware, so hopefully Hyperion can continue the work they started.

But here we have "Amigans" expecting Hyperion to spend millions more, in debt and unrecouped, so they can spend $300 less!?

I for one believe we can spend a little extra (for now), considering the mountains of cash Hyperion have spent, so there is an Amiga future for Hyperion to implement.

Unless you are willing to put up the money to fund an x86 port and the ensuing legal battle over it, what place do you have telling others to do so?

Yes, it is unfortunate that we can't get an x86 port right now. Yes it would be wonderful to have low cost, powerful hardware options... But Hyperion has single-handedly given the Amiga a future. Hyperion have shown us the first few meters of a roadmap they are obviously embarking on. Hyperion apparently seeks to get the legal battle behind them and then make the progress they were previously held back from.

Let's give Hyperion the chance to show us their technical roadmap, instead of second guessing them at every turn, and rehashing the same tired, expensive ideas, expecting Hyperion to pick up the tab.

Last edited by jingof on 23-Mar-2009 at 08:11 PM.

_________________
Vic-20, C-64, C-128
Amiga 1000, 3000
AmigaOne X1000

@jingof

I agree!

@jingof



Nice comment!

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AmigaOne X1000 1,8 Ghz/2 GB Ram + Radeon 6670 2 GB + AmigaOS4.1
A4000T CyberstormPPC 604e-200Mhz/060/128MB+CybervisionPPC 8MB + AmigaOS4
and anymore other Amigas...

@jingof

Well i`m one of the person who love to See AmigaOS4 on x86 HW.

I would not spent a penny on samPPC 600mhz to run Amiga OS 4.

PowerPC will die soon or later & will take amiga with it.

Intel Dual-Core Atom Processor will be on mobile phones at over 1.5mhz & you
still be using AmigaOS4.2 but not AmigaOS 5.0 due to no HW again.

Hyperion Entertainment done good job so far at Level=1 or Level=2.
but there is no Level=3 for AmigaOS4x due to limited HW & (small community) can not pay
or donate to keep Hyperion Entertainment in the game.
sorry to say but game nearly coming to end.

its sad and real the future is x86 not ppc sorry matey we had a dream but thats also
gone down with ppc market.

_________________
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http://serk118.blogspot.com/

Here we go again...

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http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
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@jingof

It isn't greed. There is no long term future in the PPC desktop market. However much money Hyperion can claw back from sales to amigans is never going to cover the development costs of OS4, let alone continued development. Their funding must be coming from elsewhere (Lawyers are not cheap). Most likely the embedded market is the golden fleece where investment money is aimed at (Unless they have a billionaire lunatic in the basement).

The desktop PPC market is dead. They only long term solution is to move somewhere else. Its not greed, its survival. If Hyperion plan to be spending any time with PPC, it wont be with us.

We should be very concerned. After all, the community decided to back Hyperion instead of Amiga Inc because Amiga Inc were setting their sights outside the community in the same way Hyperion will have to (If they stick to PPC).

This Hyperion announcement of an announcement better result in us getting one or I'm seeing history repeating. And if that announcement includes the words PS3 or Mac Mini then the Amiga is dead.


(Unless OS5 really exists)

Last edited by SpaceDruid on 23-Mar-2009 at 09:13 PM.
Last edited by SpaceDruid on 23-Mar-2009 at 09:12 PM.

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@SpaceDruid

Quote:

if that announcement includes the words PS3 or Mac Mini then the Amiga is dead

i agreee ...

Last edited by serk118 on 23-Mar-2009 at 09:15 PM.

_________________
http://aros-exec.org/

http://serk118.blogspot.com/

@Hans

Quote:

Hans wrote: Here we go again...

It's because proper moderation has given way to this PC rubbish of freedom of speech without practical intervention. (This is an Amiga Forum and should be Pro Amiga... NOT Open Discussion about revisiting realistic definitions based on individuals ideals or facts, every waking god damn moment!)

sure it might be flawed (there is corruption everywhere) but it is still more desirable than the existing alternative.

So from time to time I produce the odd cynical post myself because I get tired of all the crap that comes out of people mouths.

I am Pro Amiga, I do NOT want to hear your realistic views on hardware, software or the future... All I WANT to hear is Amiga news, what's happening, whos working on what... etc etc... probleming solving etc etc... I've said this before, If I was a Mod on here with free reign, alot of you would end up leaving, and don't let the door hit your ass on the way out...

_________________
~Yes I am a Kiwi, No, I did not appear as an extra in 'Lord of the Rings'~
1x AmigaOne X5000 2.0GHz 2gM RadeonR9280X AOS4.x
3x AmigaOne X1000 1.8GHz 2gM RadeonHD7970 AOS4.x

@jingof

I think first off we can all agree that Hyperion has done AMAZING things for us. Without them AmigaOS would be buried somewhere under a pile of junk in McEwens garage.


I think people are just concerened though with the PPC route. Hyperion shouldn't take it as a slap in the face.

I think everyone knows that the licensing is for PPC only, so in that reguard they would have to go against the licensing.

I think though now that Hyperion pretty much seems to own AmigaOS (or act like it at least) and claim they own it in court because AI screwed up, that now more then ever people want to see Hyperion port to something other than PPC. Licensing is less of an issue as they seem to port to whatever they want.


But also, as has happened SOOOO many times in the past, I think Amiga users are seeing that PPC is dieing at this point. And people want to move on quickly unlike has happened before. We don't want to get stuck Yet Again.

I think "we" all know PPC is a dead horse. It's a feeling that the 'powers that be' that control the OS don't see how dead PPC is.


Again, I don't think it's anything against Hyperion and all the things they have done, it's just that some people would feel more secure have they OS ported to x86 for the very very simple reason that they know x86 will be around for long long while still.

It's mainly a matter of security. There are of course they other blindingly obvious things such as price

and

LAPTOPS!!!

but I think people are really afraid AmigaOS is stuck on another dead platform "AGAIN" :( Sad to say, but I think it's true.

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A3000D (16mhz, 2MB Chip, 4MB Fast, SCSI (300+MB), SuperGen Genlock, Kick 3.1)
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Back in my day, we didn't have water. We only had Oxygen & Hydrogen, & we'd just shove 'em together

@jingof

Quote:

Maybe Hyperion simply doesn't want to throw more good money after bad simply because we (the Amiga community) think we deserve an x86 port.

I don't think the Amiga community deserve an x86 port. I just think that for the Amiga market to grow and prosper, an x86 port is the easiest route to achieve that goal. It's just my opinion.

How much money Hyperion have spent on their long-doomed PPC experiment is irrelevant to me. I just want AmigaOS running on hardware that's comparable in price and performance to the rest of the computer market. Sadly it seems like Hyperion won't be doing that, so my only hope is that Amiga Inc wins the courtcase, and someone buys the Amiga rights from them, and then releasing an x86 version..


Quote:

Given how much money Hyperion has already spent bringing us Amiga OS 4.1, why should we feel only Hyperion should pay a high cost to bring the Amiga back? I for one feel that if Hyperion can spend millions upfront to bring Amiga back, I can spend maybe $300 extra on the hardware, so hopefully Hyperion can continue the work they started.

Why do you feel that the community owe Hyperion something? It's a business that wants to sell us something. I think their product offering isn't good enough in todays market. I try to tell them that, as a consumer I would like cheaper and faster hardware before I spend any more money on Amiga software and hardware. How and if they are able to offer me a product I want to buy is up to them.


Vidar

@Hans

Quote:

Hans wrote: Here we go again...

Yep. jingof basically repeated much of what we both, and others, stated already in 'the other thread.' Maybe somehow it'll be listened to or understood in a *new* one? I suppose we can hope...?

Or, it can simply be 'part 27' of the same people saying the same things, without acknowledging they just possibly, might not be the owner of Hyperion, nor understand all of the facts...no matter how much *all* of us would love to be able to buy OS4 for our Macbook/Dell/HP/whatever....today.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@serk118

Quote:

I would not spent a penny on samPPC 600mhz to run Amiga OS 4.

It is people like you that did not support the next generation Amiga that created this mess. Unless you are willing to spend your money with people advancing Amiga hardware rather than a generic PC manufacturer then you do not deserve ever to run Amiga OS4 and above.

@jingof

Quote:

But here we have "Amigans" expecting Hyperion to spend millions more, in debt and unrecouped, so they can spend $300 less!?

My motivation for x86 or ARM or AVR32 or anything is not about lowering the price. That might be a nice side-effect, but is not what I want for myself.

For myself, what I want is something far more portable than an AmigaOne, than a SAM, than a Mac Mini, than a towerized A3000 or than an A4000T, more portable than a MicroA1 and more portable than an A1200.

What I want is a laptop. PowerPC laptops exist. You can buy them for cheaper than a Sam motherboard. Yea, they're all used, perhaps beginning to age a bit. But that portability is far more valuable to me personally than the newness of a Sam board, than the expandability of my A1XE, and more important than the classic compatibility of my A3000, A4000T and A1200. I do nto use any of these very often, mostly the A1XE these days, and for development and experimenting, not for "just using a computer". *_99%_* of my "just using a computer" happens on either my PC laptop or my iBook. The other 1% is my desktop PC when my laptop is updating or otherwise unavailable for general use.

I don't care if it's PC inexpensive. I just don't want to be locked up in that little room upstairs all the time. I don't care how we get to my convenient portable paradise, I just want to be there. Give me an "overpriced" PPC laptop and I'll be happy.

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All glory to the Hypnotoad!

@Hans

Quote:

Here we go again...

God I hope not.

The point of the thread is the community's high expectations of Hyperion, and low expectations of themselves to shoulder any cost burden.

NOT to debate architecture merits and PPC futures...

Please, no comments about PPC versus x86.. That's covered ad nauseam in other threads.

_________________
Vic-20, C-64, C-128
Amiga 1000, 3000
AmigaOne X1000

@BillE

Quote:

BillE wrote: @serk118 Quote: I would not spent a penny on samPPC 600mhz to run Amiga OS 4. It is people like you that did not support the next generation Amiga that created this mess. Unless you are willing to spend your money with people advancing Amiga hardware rather than a generic PC manufacturer then you do not deserve ever to run Amiga OS4 and above.

I kind of have to agree with what VidarL posted though.

Hyperion is a BUSINESS. Plain and simple. If this was Canon instead of Hyperion and they kept selling cameras with the flash on the back instead of the front of the camera, then you might spend you money elsewhere, just as you might say, "Hey Canon you make quality products and I'd like to buy one, but I wont buy it until you start putting the flash on the front of you cameras."

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A3000D (16mhz, 2MB Chip, 4MB Fast, SCSI (300+MB), SuperGen Genlock, Kick 3.1)
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Back in my day, we didn't have water. We only had Oxygen & Hydrogen, & we'd just shove 'em together

@jingof

Quote:

jingof wrote: @Hans Quote: Here we go again... The point of the thread is the community's high expectations of Hyperion, and low expectations of themselves to shoulder any cost burden.

What!?! Wont shoulder any cost burden!!!! ???!!!!!

There have to be 1000 people on here SHOUTING and FLASHING WADS and WADS of CASH around to buy an x86 version of AmigaOS4.

They wont take the CASH. That's the problem!

Last edited by AmigaHeretic on 23-Mar-2009 at 09:55 PM.

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A3000D (16mhz, 2MB Chip, 4MB Fast, SCSI (300+MB), SuperGen Genlock, Kick 3.1)
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Back in my day, we didn't have water. We only had Oxygen & Hydrogen, & we'd just shove 'em together

@wegster

Quote:

Yep. jingof basically repeated much of what we both, and others, stated already in 'the other thread.'

If that is how you feel, then go ahead and lock the thread. Not my intention to rehash.. rather to start the thread with a different premise, so the core message is not lost on page 13 of 27.

But, you're the moderator.

_________________
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Amiga 1000, 3000
AmigaOne X1000

@wegster

I think it will mutate to "part 27" I would really like to see people calm down, patiently seeing what´s going on in the near future. Maybe they will be heavily surprised in the end.

If they would stop their endless complaining, certain banks over here in Germany might even think about funding Amiga based projects again (which they did in the past, even with PPC in sight!). At present they are not willing to, just because they fear those "wanna have, but don´t wanna pay" customers, who were riding even other businesses to the ground here.

In my "dreams", Amiga will grow silently in a deep forest, not seen by the majority of the people out there, not seen by the "big ones" and instantly destroyed, until it grows mature enough to face the other, not so big players, again and shows the Amigan way of doing things actually better to the public (well, it does right now, but most people don´t see it. They need eyecatchers). Maybe this growing will include some portable machine, especially built for billt. I would buy one, too!

I don´t really care for the cpu, too, but I want to see some progress now, not a few years later, when x86 port is mature enough and the hardware question (which board to use? gfx? sfx? usb? ide?) is finally solved (and maybe won´t get much cheaper than future "dead" PPC machines).

Regards

@jingof

Quote:

Who here presumes to tell Hyperion they haven't done enough!

I've got more disposable income than I know what to do with, but unfortunately, Hyperion hasn't done enough to earn a share of it. In reality, that has very little to do with the platform. As old as the current hardware is, PowerPC is still "cool." The problem is OS4 itself, and how little fun you can have doing system programming without signing an NDA.

_________________
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borked A1200/Blizzard1260+SCSI-IV/Z4+MediatorZIV/Deneb/Voodoo3/CatweaselMk3
more borked A1200/MBX1200z/Indivision
A500/clockport/RRNet
A600/A603

@jingof

Quote:

jingof wrote: But here we have "Amigans" expecting Hyperion to spend millions more, in debt and unrecouped, so they can spend $300 less!?

Does it make any sense to you that if AmigaOS ran on cheap available hardware (possible hardware people already have) that they would sell "MORE" copies of AmigaOS4?

I have several friends that use to be big time Amiga geeks with me back in the day. There's no way any of them would pay $600 for a motherboard just for the priviledge of then being able to buy AmigaOS4.

I have little doubt they would buy AmigaOS4 if it a) ran on hardware they already have or b) ran on hardware they could also run (dual boot) Windows or Linux on.


PPC is for us few that have made AmigaOS a "hobby" and can justify the prices and it been a GREAT ride (Thank you Hyperion!!! ), but if we want more users then PPC can offer, well, then we need to evolve.


Let's not forget laptops!

_________________
A3000D (16mhz, 2MB Chip, 4MB Fast, SCSI (300+MB), SuperGen Genlock, Kick 3.1)
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Back in my day, we didn't have water. We only had Oxygen & Hydrogen, & we'd just shove 'em together