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blizz1220 
Re: Who owns what?
Posted on 9-Aug-2013 22:52:29
#61 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@blizz1220

Quote:
He can not.


I could and I checked with other legal colleagues ...
Situation is different from country to country but
it is possible almost everywhere ...

Quote:
I also want to clarify something. It has come
to my attention that I supposedly got 2 cease and desists
orders from Amiga Inc. regarding our logo choice. Those
are fabrications. I have gotten NO cease and desists from
Amiga Inc. I even had everyone check their spam and junk
folders and nothing.


Because _it_ _is_ _not_ boing ball in legal or even logical
sense ...

Bigger question is what could Amiga users do to never be
dependent on any company or individual ...
Answer is simple , create "OpenAmiga project" or "AmigaUser
OS" , make it opensource , write it from scratch using existing
sources and choose target hardware and make it future proof
and affordable.Make it as a non-profit project and that would
solve a lot of problems.

I don't see that happening anymore than me writing an OS but
it is also quite legal ...

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number6 
Re: Who owns what?
Posted on 9-Aug-2013 22:53:25
#62 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9575
From: In the village

@ssolie

Quote:
That is from our collective wikipedia. Feel free to correct it if you wish. Some fellow who calls himself "Xorxos" seems to think it is correct.


I don't feel comfortable in correcting any information in that wiki entry at this time, hence I just mentioned what was entered there.

#6

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vox 
Re: Who owns what?
Posted on 9-Aug-2013 23:54:25
#63 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3725
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@blizz1220

Quote:
Bigger question is what could Amiga users do to never be dependent on any company or individual ... Answer is simple , create "OpenAmiga project" or "AmigaUser OS" , make it opensource , write it from scratch using existing sources and choose target hardware and make it future proof and affordable.Make it as a non-profit project and that would solve a lot of problems.


Isn`t that AROS (or blended with Linux AEROS). Starting from 0 at this point is plain stupid.

Now I see your point, you see closed sources of AmigaOS 4 (and possibly MorphOS)
and their ownership company as an obstacle.

Well, open source is no guarantee of success either, because it depends on devotion of developers. While I do love my Linux Mint (and Ubuntu soon) very few Linux distros get to that level.

To me, obstacles was shady business of Amiga Inc, and retro brand utilizing to boost common PC
sales like in C=USA (and partially Robertos example) because I felt its choking any development at all.
And I am glad those two are over in AmigaOS related ways.

AmigaOS 4 or MorphOS teams have been building their child too long to give up.


Counting on Amiga users is great, but only devoted teams like AmigaOS 4 and its beta testers and developers, MorphOS team, AROS team ... do make a difference. Expecting more from today left user base is just way too much.

So AROS is your hope, but real question is how to make it attractive and usable in harsh competition of Linux, MacOS X and Windows (on x86/x64)

Quote:
No that is wrong ... Amiga Inc. "owns" name Amiga to be used to create computer and can make Amiga computers or give that right (for huge amount of money) to someone ... *these* they just own , can't give Also *AmigaOne* and *Amiga One* ... Same for "*Amiga OS**" and "*AmigaOS*" ...


Well sure, you could try selling Amiga Candy OS or Fast AmigaOS, but there is simply no interest.

Quote:
As all of this is happening users are building their own hardware and writing their own software and this kind of situation is impossible to maintain for long.


If we count Acube, Hyperion, Trevor (surely MOS and AROS team) as Amiga users, that is pretty much summary of last decade. Linux lives on kind of that, but with way larger userbase. Sadly, MorphOS didn`t uplift to that level back in 1999 when there was way more users. Not to mention 1994.

But in present we have to live in. And I choose to support survivors. Not name stealers.

Last edited by vox on 10-Aug-2013 at 12:01 AM.
Last edited by vox on 09-Aug-2013 at 11:55 PM.

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CritAnime 
Re: Who owns what?
Posted on 10-Aug-2013 7:49:22
#64 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 27-Jun-2011
Posts: 734
From: UK

@number6

Interesting use of wording on that sentence. Makes it sound like CUSA got full rights to everything. When we all know they were a licensee. The note actually clarifies it though.

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pavlor 
Re: Who owns what?
Posted on 10-Aug-2013 8:51:18
#65 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8170
From: Unknown

@ssolie

Quote:
That is from our collective wikipedia. Feel free to correct it if you wish. Some fellow who calls himself "Xorxos" seems to think it is correct.


Xorxos is reasonable man, with suitable sources at hand, he will change his mind. I will try take care of this problem.

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wawa 
Re: Who owns what?
Posted on 10-Aug-2013 11:40:26
#66 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5573
From: Unknown

@blizz1220

Quote:
Bigger question is what could Amiga users do to never be dependent on any company or individual ... Answer is simple , create "OpenAmiga project" or "AmigaUser OS" , make it opensource , write it from scratch using existing sources and choose target hardware and make it future proof and affordable.Make it as a non-profit project and that would solve a lot of problems. I don't see that happening anymore than me writing an OS but it is also quite legal ...


aros-obviously..

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A1200 
Re: Who owns what?
Posted on 11-Aug-2013 16:57:49
#67 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-May-2003
Posts: 2828
From: Westhall, UK

I own an Amiga A1200.

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A500 
Re: Who owns what?
Posted on 11-Aug-2013 19:29:12
#68 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 24-Feb-2006
Posts: 345
From: Ontario, Canada

@tomazkid

I used to be up on this discussion several years ago. Back when I thought we were going to see a new machine... when Bill said something wonderful would be coing out that would compete with the Mac. Well, I did not believe Bill, but because of him I new where everything stood.

I wonder if it really matters right now? I guess it matters most for those developing retro games on iPhones and the like. Selling retro packs.

I am old. I still prefer the idea of getting new machines as hardware rather than emulators. I still miss going to the World of Commodore every year. I miss the Computer Expos where we would see Amigas and STs and IBM all in the same place...

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CodeSmith 
Re: Who owns what?
Posted on 11-Aug-2013 21:03:54
#69 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3045
From: USA

@A500

Quote:
I miss the Computer Expos where we would see Amigas and STs and IBM all in the same place...

If it will make you feel any better that sort of thing is still going on, but we're in the post-PC era so the form factors are different. Trade shows these days have smartphones and tablets from many different manufacturers, with the many flavors of Android being the popular hobbyist platforms (think of the many 8bits running various flavors of MS BASIC), Apple going back to its early Mac roots having the finely tuned experience for those who don't want to think about the hardware, and Microsoft in the "tech for your dad" space that IBM and HP used to be in.

Last edited by CodeSmith on 11-Aug-2013 at 09:04 PM.

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A500 
Re: Who owns what?
Posted on 11-Aug-2013 22:23:04
#70 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 24-Feb-2006
Posts: 345
From: Ontario, Canada

@CodeSmith

Nah, that won't do it for me. I miss the air.. the feeling back then. That feeling that everything was new... machines were faster, more colours, better sound.. each advance brought about a whole new ear of possibilities.

No matter how exciting an iPad may be, it is just not as exciting as see a new amiga, atari or commodore. :(

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klx300r 
Re: Who owns what?
Posted on 11-Aug-2013 22:46:43
#71 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2008
Posts: 3115
From: Toronto, Canada


Quote:

A500 wrote:
@CodeSmith

Nah, that won't do it for me. I miss the air.. the feeling back then. That feeling that everything was new... machines were faster, more colours, better sound.. each advance brought about a whole new ear of possibilities.

No matter how exciting an iPad may be, it is just not as exciting as see a new amiga, atari or commodore. :(


Agreed & hence my fellow Ontarian why we're here in 2013 & not on some Linux or Mac site

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number6 
Re: Who owns what?
Posted on 14-Oct-2013 16:03:43
#72 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9575
From: In the village

@pavlor

Quote:
Xorxos is reasonable man, with suitable sources at hand, he will change his mind. I will try take care of this problem.


Any progress?

Quote:
Products

Xpedio tablets


And links to same later on the page.

Seriously?!

#6

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pavlor 
Re: Who owns what?
Posted on 14-Oct-2013 16:43:45
#73 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8170
From: Unknown

@number6

Quote:
Any progress?


Haven´t found time back then and forgot.

Will look at it... hopefully before end of this year.

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number6 
Re: Who owns what?
Posted on 14-Oct-2013 17:40:08
#74 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9575
From: In the village

@CritAnime

Quote:
Interesting use of wording on that sentence. Makes it sound like CUSA got full rights to everything. When we all know they were a licensee. The note actually clarifies it though.


Well no it does not.

The original quote I took from the wiki at time of posting:

Quote:
In 2010 Commodore USA acquired rights to the Amiga name.


The current wording as of today regarding anything with a 2010 date and concerning CUSA:

(1)
Quote:
In 2010 Commodore USA acquired rights to use the Amiga name on branded x86 Linux computers.


(2)
Quote:
2010-08-31:
Commodore USA announces they acquired the rights to the Amiga name and relaunch Amiga branded desktops running AROS.
etc.

(3)
Quote:
2010-12-13:
After legal threats from Hyperion due to conditions in the Amiga Inc. settlement that they are now subject to as an Amiga licensee, Commodore USA later drop their AROS plans and announce on their relaunched website, that they will create a new OS called AMIGA Workbench 5.0 (name has been changed to Commodore OS), which was later revealed will be based on Linux.


All of which makes no sense btw. With Amiga Inc. as a licensee, Commodore USA would have been a sub-licensee, afaik.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 14-Oct-2013 at 05:49 PM.

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cdimauro 
Re: Who owns what?
Posted on 9-Aug-2014 17:06:49
#75 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 1812
From: Germany

Continuing from here.

In short: can anyone put a clear word about the Amiga o.s. sources? Who owns what? Can AmigaOS4 be ported to different architectures than PowerPCs? Thanks.

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number6 
Re: Who owns what?
Posted on 9-Aug-2014 17:16:09
#76 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9575
From: In the village

@cdimauro

First, I'll repeat the last public statement I can find from Hyperion on this topic:

Source

Although not clearly indicated, the following quote can be read to apply to what I quoted from Jeremy Reimer:

Quote:
Then there are some legal issues like some licences being tied to PPC only.


I've seen other interpretations though of that same quote.
Hope this helps.

#6

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andres 
Re: Who owns what?
Posted on 9-Aug-2014 17:26:11
#77 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Nov-2008
Posts: 322
From: Firenze (Italy)

@number6
In my opinion, HyperionMP and Jeremy are talking of complete different things, and Jeremy's statement is completely wrong.

Gateway/ACER doesn't own anything at all, and HyperionMP was referring to parts of the OS made of code licensed by third parties only for the PowerPC version, so that porting these parts to x86/64 or ARM would require to get another license from the owner (in case it still exists).

Last edited by andres on 09-Aug-2014 at 05:27 PM.
Last edited by andres on 09-Aug-2014 at 05:26 PM.

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number6 
Re: Who owns what?
Posted on 9-Aug-2014 17:35:35
#78 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9575
From: In the village

@andres

I guess you should contact whomever updates the Gateway wiki then.

Quote:
since 2000, this Amiga intellectual property has been licensed to Amiga


The difference between ownership and licensing has been discussed on amiga.org, if you're curious.

One example. There are more

#6

Last edited by number6 on 09-Aug-2014 at 05:41 PM.

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cdimauro 
Re: Who owns what?
Posted on 9-Aug-2014 17:54:31
#79 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 1812
From: Germany

Quote:

number6 wrote:
@cdimauro

First, I'll repeat the last public statement I can find from Hyperion on this topic:

Source

Although not clearly indicated, the following quote can be read to apply to what I quoted from Jeremy Reimer:

Quote:
Then there are some legal issues like some licences being tied to PPC only.


I've seen other interpretations though of that same quote.
Hope this helps.

#6

Thanks for the link. I think it clarifies the debate, by reporting the two statements about the topic:

"Then there are some legal issues like some licences being tied to PPC only.

All of this could be worked around however given sufficient funding. E.g. an ARM/X-Scale version of AmigaOS 4.x is perfectly possible."

There are some parts of OS4 which are licensed only for PowerPC. But they can be replaced.

So, a port for a different architecture is possible. Only money matters...

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andres 
Re: Who owns what?
Posted on 9-Aug-2014 18:01:35
#80 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Nov-2008
Posts: 322
From: Firenze (Italy)

@number6

The point is that we have an official document compiled in an American Court after years of process, which asserts the contrary.

And most importantly, I've never seen any document of Gateway/AMINO agreement that speaks of PowerPC architecture related licenses.
While at that time AmigaOS was 68k ONLY.

Last edited by andres on 09-Aug-2014 at 06:02 PM.
Last edited by andres on 09-Aug-2014 at 06:02 PM.

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