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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 3-Sep-2010 10:32:51
#241 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1252
From: CRO

@pavlor

Quote:
And people are still buying dedicated hardware for OS of their choice. Crazy world...


How many people?

Quote:
Now I see, you left the platform too early to know its complicated (and frustrating...) history. PowerPC CPU was choosen for Amiga by Amiga Technologies (and with consent of the community) in 1995/1996. First PowerPC CPU cards for A4000 were introduced in 1997. When Amiga OS 4 project started in 2001, PowerPC was in this regard logical choice. Amiga OS is now PowerPC native OS, port to another CPU architecture is possible, but it needs much more time and money than Hyperion has.


I left(I still have my a500) the platform not because of PPC, but because Amiga OS was not competitive in the market. And I still read news and browse forums from time to time. The announcement of finally going x86 has brought me back from hiding.

I don't know how many time or money Hyperion has but that doesn't mean I cannot deduce simple things like they are royaly f***** up if Commodore Amigas come to market for twice as less money offering more performance, more versatility and a proper name(one that is more recognizable then AmigaOne).

Hyperion could always go back writing applications and games for amiga market. That is, if sales rise of x86 Amigas, what's stopping Commodore into opening something like Commodore/Amiga store and selling applications, be it for ubuntu or (less likely) AROS.

Last edited by WolfToTheMoon on 03-Sep-2010 at 10:34 AM.
Last edited by WolfToTheMoon on 03-Sep-2010 at 10:33 AM.

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KimmoK 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 3-Sep-2010 10:35:19
#242 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5040
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@WolfToTheMoon

On my AMDx2 system, only puppylinux and AROS feel fast & fun. Others either do not install or are slow. (my SAM runs circles around this unless AmigalikeOS is used.)

So, to me AOS & AmigalikeOS(AROS) is not dead end. It is the best option beside puppy for me.


++
"I do not think mr. Altman is in this business to lose money. X1000 will be bought by several hundred, maybe thousand people."

As far as I understand x1000 is just a stepping stone and with the sales of ~1000 it might become profitable, because of high margins.

"Commodore PC64 could sell 10 000+ units easily per markets like UK, USA and Germany alone. That's just PC64..."

PC market has very small margins.

>Hyperion have nothing to bring on the table worth buying, if not only for the name Amiga OS. But since they cannot run Amiga OS anyway on x86, there's really no sense to go for that.
A rewrite to x86 is negated by the existence of AROS... that is, "

I think emulation to run AOS4 on x86 would be the initial option.
If AROS would be developed to be AOS5 (native on multiplatform), it would speed up the R&D if they could take advantage of AOS codebase.

"it would be much cheaper and faster for Commodore to hire some devs to work on that. "

Not sure about that. And they would need to be devs that understand AOS. Not any Windows or linux programmers.

Last edited by KimmoK on 03-Sep-2010 at 10:44 AM.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 3-Sep-2010 10:41:23
#243 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1252
From: CRO

@KimmoK

I don't know, Kimmok... AROS is fast but then again the reason for being fast in the first place is because it is small and simple and not capable of doing much work when compared to a mainstream OS.

Windows and linux derived OSs have grown to gigantic proportions simply because they are needed to be much more versatile then AROS or Amiga OS.

I'm pleased with the speed and execution of Win7 and Ubuntu, and judging by millions of people using them, so are they. That said, I find it enjoyable to watch AROS boot in seconds

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Dandy 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 3-Sep-2010 10:41:44
#244 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Mar-2003
Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany

@KimmoK

Quote:

KimmoK wrote:
@Dandy

I think co-operation in sensible naming, distribution and technology sharing would be nice.

- Commodore Amiga x1000 (from A-Eon) could be sold by C= USA.



And why do you think I would prefer to buy an AmigaOne X1000 from Commodore over buying it from AmigaKit?
What would be the advantage for me as customer?

Quote:

KimmoK wrote:

- Hyperion could make a deal to work together towards AOS5. (it could be for example AROS+AOS4 codebase (build to form a 64bit ASMP & MP OS) + AOS4 sandbox + UAE)



As I unsderstood the settlement agreement they already have a worldwide, excusive and perpetual right to develop and market OS5?
What would be the commercial advantage for them to share this exclusive right with other companies?

Quote:

KimmoK wrote:

- Perhaps AmigaOne could be called as Amiga, without the stooped One addition



I'm fine with the name as it is...

Quote:

KimmoK wrote:

- AOS5 would be available for custom PPC and custom x86 HW (=not on every motherboard).
...



Up to now I have not heard that Hyperion had plans for an AmigaOS 5...

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KimmoK 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 3-Sep-2010 10:45:42
#245 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5040
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@WolfToTheMoon

"millions of people using them, so are they"

People do not know about faster and more fun (AOS) ways.
That's why millions do not switch.

Last edited by KimmoK on 03-Sep-2010 at 10:46 AM.

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 3-Sep-2010 10:49:22
#246 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1252
From: CRO

@KimmoK

Quote:
People do not know about faster and more fun (AOS) ways. That's why millions do not switch.


I'm sorry, Kimmok, but I cannot take you seriously after saying something like this.

Fun? They are having fun buying iOS and Android smartphones/tablets and running whichever applications they want where ever they want. They use Win and linux to get the work done or to play games.

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KimmoK 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 3-Sep-2010 10:53:41
#247 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5040
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@Dandy

>And why do you think I would prefer to buy an AmigaOne X1000 from Commodore over buying it from AmigaKit?

Because it would be "Commodore"?
Because it would be "Amiga", not AmigaOne?

>What would be the advantage for me as customer?

No advantage beside perhaps more channels to buy from.

>I'm fine with the name as it is...

AmigaOne Power X 1000 makes me puke.
But that's just me.
(I would prefer "Amiga X1000".)

>Up to now I have not heard that Hyperion had plans for an AmigaOS 5...

5 is just a number. indicating bigger OS change than 0.x numbers.
(IMO. 64bit, ASMP, MP, x86 are so big features that it is worth the bigger number change .... and perhaps separate unstable R&D branch for many years to come)

Last edited by KimmoK on 03-Sep-2010 at 10:54 AM.

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Zontrox 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 3-Sep-2010 11:03:42
#248 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2005
Posts: 684
From: Matrix Collective

@all

I'm sorry if this has already been covered/answered but... what about Hyperion? After all, they are the ones that have been developing the AmigaOS. This is a thought that just occurred me. I just read the Engadget article in a hurry and haven't read this whole thread yet so this question might be a bit stupid (big apologies if it is).

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 3-Sep-2010 11:09:52
#249 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1252
From: CRO

@Zontrox

Quote:
I'm sorry if this has already been covered/answered but... what about Hyperion?


They're in for a mess now probably, regarding the X1000 launch... Can't say I feel much sympathy because it's a mess themselves are responsible for. Even without this announcement, the first thing I thought when I read about X1000 was - FAIL!

Last edited by WolfToTheMoon on 03-Sep-2010 at 11:10 AM.

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KimmoK 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 3-Sep-2010 11:11:32
#250 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5040
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@WolfToTheMoon

>Fun?

Also computing (the use of a computer) should be fun.

>They are having fun buying iOS and Android smartphones/tablets and running whichever applications they want where ever they want.

I have only used those ####slow crappy and limited symbian ones. Byt I think neither the others have yet reached AOS3 level of pre-emptive multitasking & multimedia presentation performance, etc.

> They use Win and linux to get the work done or to play games.

Game playing on win has always been an nightmare when compared to games consoles or A500 simplicity.
I'm sure a lot of people have never wanted to mess with another windows game/driver compatibility issue after they have tried the game on xbox/PS.
And Linux games are still #### poor. (even thought Linux is better for windows games than windows itself)

AmigalikeOSs have the potential to do things a lot better.

btw.
-paying to keep the computer working is "not fun" (win way, the need of commercial firewalls and virusprotection)
-having to do maintenance to do the same task that you did yesterday is "not fun" (win way, patches, patches)
-computer becoming mysteriously slower after half year of using is "not fun" (mainstream way, especially win, but also linux way, not fragmentation issue)
-waiting for the OS is "not fun"
-not being able to multitask everywhere/anytime is "not fun"
-needing to install a game before being able to play it is "not fun"
-needing to install a driver before adding a HW is "not fun"
-being forced to buy new HW + SW just to do the same thing you did yesterday is "not fun" (especially win way, where patches and upgrades are mandatory and backward compatibility is often lost)
etc....

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nimrod7 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 3-Sep-2010 11:31:28
#251 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Jan-2010
Posts: 285
From: Poland

@WolfToTheMoon

again i urge somebody to put a distinct, bold, sticky thread concerning amiga-os issues : why no amiga os4 on x86, why aros = the brightest future among the not-so-bright amiga-os+amiga-os-derivatives futures, why mac os x/windows 7 is better than amiga os +++ STOP WASTING MONEY on a deficient and outdated OS, why amiga os should be opensourced, why PPC is stupid and dead and outdated and expensive, - and that thread should be visible from the main page to attract newcomers who otherwise blow other random threads with the same concerns and the same argumentation without providing any creative/new/constructive thoughts

thank you very much and i'm gonna put the amiga sticker on my forehead and call myself Nimrod Amiga 7

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paolone 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 3-Sep-2010 12:01:17
#252 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 922
From: Unknown

@Dandy, and many others

Quote:
Yes, of course! Now I understand why they try to sell WIntel hardware with the OSses Windblows and Linux! It is because "they show interest to the original Amiga consept"! Why didn't I see that immediately? Stupid me...


Please, get real. Everyone.

We are just a little community of persons who are fond of "the original Amiga consepts", and demonstrating it everyone his/her own way. But the reality is that the AmigaLand is so tiny that can just feed the needs of a few little companies, like A-Eon, Hyperion and ACube, which are forced to overprice their products in order to get their break-even, and maybe to start gaining something to spend in research for future products. People already interested in buying such hardware and software are already here, you won't get any new user outside of the community, nor you'll convince old amigans to get back with a underpowered, "undersoftwared" computer system which costs as much as the fastest super-desktop around and has a fraction of its power (seriously, please don't compare the X1000 with its lowend R700 video card with a 6-core i7 980X with a GeForce GTX480 card, or anyone with a little grey matter will laugh behind you for months, not talking about what you can do with the two systems). When our hardware vendors place a new board on the marker, they produce them in batches of 100s and hope to sell at least a couple of 1000s.

Commodore USA is targeting to the mainstream, looking for all those old Amiga/C64 fans out there that, in the meanwhile, have just switched to PC and followed the Wintel or Linux paths, maybe the Mac one. They are a little company without production facilities, but they are aiming to a wider market, where machines can be produced and sold in order of 10.000s or even more. They don't need AROS, they don't even need WinUAE, they just need a good Linux distribution, with some men-day of work to create a good "Amiga Look" on X11, bundle some applications to surf Google and Facebook, and place an Amiga Forever disc in every box to fullfits all the mainstream needs, even those related to the Amiga legacy with emulation.

But not, they also considered AROS as a potential unique feature for their machines, something that's obvsiously tied to the Amiga roots, which just need some love and some funding to be polished and get better. Something that may put them also in troubles, since Hyperion and Amiga Inc settled for a "non competitive" agreement at the end of their legal struggle. The AROS addition is something they don't urgently need to reach their goals. It's "something more" they have decided to support just because they liked it (thanks to Leo efforts to convince Altman), and because an Amiga without anything similar to AmigaOS would have been... well... like the sky without stars. I think this choice owes a little respect.

Said so, for now there's nothing more than a press release. AROS development proceeds like it always did. AROS compatibility with modern PCs are manily due to Steve and Pascal economic efforts. AROS pros and cons are always the same. Nothing changed, and nothing will change if Commodore USA releases its products. Maybe we'll gain a broader audience, maybe they will just erase the SFS partition to get space for Windows, maybe we'll get some money to help development, but one thing is sure, AROS will always be at service of the whole Amiga community, being it this one or enlarged.

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pavlor 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 3-Sep-2010 12:03:13
#253 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8414
From: Unknown

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:
Commodore Amigas come to market for twice as less money offering more performance, more versatility and a proper name(one that is more recognizable then AmigaOne).


I fear many buyers of the new "Commodore Amiga" will be disappointed, because it will be nothing more than ordinary PC with nice name. Not something that brings pleasant memories from the past. Get Mac Mini or eMac and try MorphOS (I feel you want everything cheap, thus I will not propose you to buy Amiga OS compatible hardware...) to see difference between your and our idea of computer experience.

And also some personal question: You discarded Amiga OS, MorphOS and even AROS... I wonder what is you definition of "Amiga"?

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Geennaam 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 3-Sep-2010 12:06:39
#254 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Oct-2003
Posts: 223
From: Unknown

Well, at least Commodore USA knows what the inside of a courtyard looks like because, according to the dutch magazine Elsevier, there was a long lasting lawsuit with the dutch company "Commodore Licensing B.V." (apparently the current owner of the C64 design and trademark; which in its turn is owned by the dutch investment company Haerzathe Investments Beheer B.V.‎ ) before a settlement was reached.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 3-Sep-2010 12:06:50
#255 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1252
From: CRO

@pavlor

Quote:
And also some personal question: You discarded Amiga OS, MorphOS and even AROS... I wonder what is you definition of "Amiga"?


My A500.

Quote:
I fear many buyers of the new "Commodore Amiga" will be disappointed, because it will be nothing more than ordinary PC with nice name


Not if they take some time to actually study the specs before they buy it.

Quote:
Not something that brings pleasant memories from the past


Pleasent memories from the past are an emulator away from them. I know, not something hard core amigans aspire to, but enough for most of the people.

@paolone

BEST post on the subject, covers pretty much everything

Last edited by WolfToTheMoon on 03-Sep-2010 at 12:07 PM.

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nikosidis 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 3-Sep-2010 13:10:19
#256 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 585
From: Norway, Oslo

@paolone

Well written. Just as I would have put it myself, if I could write that good.

You nailed everything :)

Last edited by nikosidis on 03-Sep-2010 at 01:11 PM.

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andres 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 3-Sep-2010 13:29:29
#257 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Nov-2008
Posts: 323
From: Firenze (Italy)

@paolone

If it was so easy to sell 10,000, 20,000 or 50,000 computers, simply by taking an ASUS motherboard, a chinese case, a Linux distribution and stuck on an AMIGA sticker, one wonders if we all haven't been completely stupid, over the past 16 years.
Amiga Technologies, Gateway 2000, Amiga Inc, Hyperion & A-EON, everyone could have done this with few money and very little effort.

You remind me of an old idea of our Prime Minister Berlusconi, when he advised FIAT to rename the Fiat Stilo in Ferrari 500 ...

Last edited by andres on 03-Sep-2010 at 01:33 PM.
Last edited by andres on 03-Sep-2010 at 01:30 PM.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 3-Sep-2010 13:39:10
#258 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1252
From: CRO

@andres

Quote:
f it was so easy to sell 10,000, 20,000 or 50,000 computers, simply by taking an ASUS motherboard, a chinese case, a Linux distribution and stuck on an AMIGA sticker, one wonders if we all haven't been completely stupid, over the past 16 years.


IMHO and don't get offended, but yes...


I mean just look at the future between Hyperion, Acube, A-eon and Commodore

X1000 is already late and will probably be not ready by the end of this year. Also the price is insane and betas contract too. Which to me indicates several things... Either a problem with hardware, software, financing or all of that together.

Commodore is taking the easy and smart way. They plan to have a replica of the world's best selling personal computer of all times ready by this Christmas. Imagine how many people will feel nostalgia and since it's holiday season they(C=) stand a much better chance of enjoying a good sales.

This is all possible because they are using x86 and proven software. The only thing needed is a custom case. IMHO, if something doesn't go terribly wrong, mr. Altman may be a very rich man by this time next year.

Hyperion(and all of the others before them) had the option of doing this very same thing and decided not to. Tough luck.

Last edited by WolfToTheMoon on 03-Sep-2010 at 01:43 PM.

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ChrisH 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 3-Sep-2010 13:44:10
#259 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@nikosidis Quote:
C-USA is not a scam but rather some people trying to get into the computer hardware business.

That might be the case, but their history so far does not inspire confidence. Thom Holwerda says:
Quote:
Dubious website, long list of product announcements that never ship, one product that's merely a Cybernet machine, unilateral press releases, images taken from others without permission, and now an announcement that has attracted the attention of Hyperion's - a legitimate business - lawyers. I'd say me being careful and thinking this is a hoax or a con until proven otherwise is perfectly validated.

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ChrisH 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 3-Sep-2010 13:50:57
#260 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@WolfToTheMoon
No-one is forcing you to buy an X1000. There is always the cheaper Sam460 (or even a Sam440), if you want to run Amiga OS4...

... but of course YOU don't want to run OS4, so arguing with you is kind of silly. A bit like arguing with someone who comes to a Mac forum and says Windows PCs are cheaper & better.... (Or someone who on a PS3 forum says Xbox360 is cheaper & better...)

Last edited by ChrisH on 03-Sep-2010 at 01:52 PM.

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