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cha05e90 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 12:03:57
#361 ]
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Joined: 18-Apr-2009
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From: Germany

@Mechanic

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djrikki 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 12:09:46
#362 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2010
Posts: 2075
From: Grimsby, UK

@pavlor

Interesting document you've linked there...

Reading through paragraph 1b proved interesting reading.

Given that I am not a lawyer as well.. this paragraph represents Hyperion's best defence against Commodore/Amino/Itec/whatever lame name they gave themselves attempts to launch a branded PC with AROS bundled on it.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 12:12:51
#363 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1252
From: CRO

@djrikki

Quote:
Given that I am not a lawyer as well.. this paragraph represents Hyperion's best defence against Commodore/Amino/Itec/whatever lame name they gave themselves attempts to launch a branded PC with AROS bundled on it.


Hmm... to some extent... But AROS and OS4 do not share any code, work on different architectures and on top of that, AROS is open source and completely free. I say they've got didly squat. Not to mentio that for C=, even if they object, the solution is very simple... just drop bundled AROS and point out that it's free to download

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Hammer 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 12:12:53
#364 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3925
From: Australia

@djrikki

You already have *virtual* "Amiga" machine i.e. "Amiga Forever".

Cloanto already factored in "AmigaOS" no go zone.

Amiga Forever includes Linix/UAE/Workbench(1) boot CD.

1. Amiga Forever uses the word Workbench™ when referring to the "Classic" operating system environment that runs on top of the hardware

Last edited by Hammer on 06-Sep-2010 at 12:24 PM.

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Dandy 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 12:17:02
#365 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Mar-2003
Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany

@opi

Quote:

opi wrote:
@Dandy

Quote:


Amiga ≠ x86



Using your logic PPC is also out of the loop, too. There was never a computer called Amiga that was shipped with PowerPC chip.



But there ARE computers that are called "Amiga" and have been expanded with an accelerator with an PowerPC chip onboard.
I have one of them.

Quote:

opi wrote:

Yet, there was a project that married X86 and AmigaOS blessed by Amiga, Inc. Amithlon.



I never bothered with Amithlon - isn't it a sort of emulation like AmigaForever, that was also blessed by AInc (or was it still called Amiga Technologies International back then)?

Quote:

opi wrote:

For years I was saying that I brand "Amiga" whatever I feel worthy.



Nothing wrong with that.

Quote:

opi wrote:

You then said that it's not my call because there's a company that set up rules for that brand name. Now, when I play devil advocate and say that if CUSA got a deal with Amiga, Inc they are within the rights to use it, you guys spin on a dime and get all hippy on me: "You can, like, own a brand, man. It's an idea, man! We're true to the spirit of a brand, not the evil overlord."

You either like idea of Amiga and follow AROS, MorphOS or AmigaOS4 or you follow Amiga and you're happy to get yourself a cheap PC.




You must confuse me with someone else - IIRC, I haven't replied to you in this thread up to now...

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Hammer 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 12:22:00
#366 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3925
From: Australia

@djrikki

Quote:

djrikki wrote:
@pavlor

Interesting document you've linked there...

Reading through paragraph 1b proved interesting reading.

Given that I am not a lawyer as well.. this paragraph represents Hyperion's best defence against Commodore/Amino/Itec/whatever lame name they gave themselves attempts to launch a branded PC with AROS bundled on it.

Unlike AmigaDE (and like), AROS is not developed and marketed by Amiga Inc.

Last edited by Hammer on 06-Sep-2010 at 12:34 PM.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 12:23:30
#367 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1252
From: CRO

@Hammer

Yeah, but remember, for some people in Hyperion, "AROS is probably illegal"

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Hammer 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 12:28:41
#368 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3925
From: Australia

@WolfToTheMoon

I recall Hyperion's Ben Hermans claiming MorphOS is illegal(1)

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperion_Entertainment

"Hermans had courted controversy by repeatedly claiming that MorphOS, an AmigaOS-like competitor, was illegal,"

Last edited by Hammer on 06-Sep-2010 at 12:29 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 12:30:56
#369 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8486
From: Unknown

@Hammer

Quote:
I recall Hyperion's Ben Hermans claiming MorphOS is illegal(1)


Nearly 10 years old story...

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T-J 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 12:35:12
#370 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Aug-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@WolfToTheMoon

AROS is an API clone of Amiga OS 3.1, identified in the Agreement as 'The Software'. Amiga Inc are prohibited from selling anything running a substantially similar software architecture, either by themselves or through licensees. This includes any substantially similar software, not just one developed by Amiga Inc. No doubt Hyperion would have had MorphOS and AROS in mind when they negotiated this aspect of the agreement.

AROS being open source and free of charge is irrelevant. The agreement clearly states that the Amiga Parties will not distribute, free of charge or otherwise, any software exhibiting a Software Architecture (note - software architecture, not CPU Instruction Set Architecture) similar to the original Software.

Regardless, CommodoreUSA's attempt to use AROS as a link to the classic Amiga depends on AROS being perceived as substantially similar to the Amiga OS. Whether or not it is, they think it is and so have exhibited a worrying lack of regard for the Legal Settlement. Assuming of course that Amiga Inc have actually licensed the name, since we haven't actually heard any kind of bilateral acknowledgement of this, or any third party source supporting it.



Of course, CommodoreUSA could simply decide not to bundle AROS, but their PCs really rather depend on having a substantial link back to the original Amiga lineup. In my opinion, running AROS isn't nearly enough, but not running AROS out of the box would be worse.

Basically, if Mr Altman wants to make money, he would be better advised to stick to the Commodore brand and make his money from the nostalgia for the C=64 for now. In the highly unlikely event of this being a success, he could then move onto the Amiga scene with the aid of some PC-64 derived profits, but as it stands the legal situation is too much of a minefield. Why expose a fragile startup to unnecessary risk?

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Hammer 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 12:35:58
#371 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3925
From: Australia

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@Hammer

Quote:
I recall Hyperion's Ben Hermans claiming MorphOS is illegal(1)


Nearly 10 years old story...


https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0BxlY9g_OfLqDMThlY2FmMzUtMjE5My00NjdiLWIxN2MtZDQyNTUzZTJlNTI3&hl=en&pli=1

Is 2004-to-2010 = 10 years?

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Hammer 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 12:40:49
#372 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3925
From: Australia

@T-J

You are forgetting Amiga Forver and it's live boot CD.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 12:41:07
#373 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1252
From: CRO

@Hammer



Wikipedia on Hyperion

.pdf document, see page 27

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HenryCase 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 12:41:58
#374 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Nov-2007
Posts: 688
From: Unknown

@djrikki

Quote:

Hardware doesn't make a Mac a Mac, hardware doesn't make a PC a PC, hardware doesn't make an Amiga an Amiga. Those ways of thinking died decades ago.

Yes its true Amiga did have some hardware features that made it unique at the time, but it was the underlying operating system that brought it altogether and made it work and that was the Amiga.

And once again AROS isn't the official Amiga Operating System therefore no point comparing that either.


I thought you might say something along those lines, but you've missed the point.

Let me put it to you another way, all those people who had Amigas back in the day and never touched the OS (apart from the kickstart ROM), were they running Amigas? Of course they were.

To me the definition of an Amiga is with the hardware, and with that point of view it doesn't matter what software you run on a real Amiga, it is still an Amiga. The same cannot be said of newer boards... if you only ran Debian on a Sam, would it still be an Amiga? Barely.

So I'm not saying AROS is the official OS, but I'm saying AmigaOS systems aren't Amigas to me. To answer your earlier points, yes to me hardware does make a Mac a Mac, etc... It's not irrational, it's just a different point of view, and it's equally valid to seeing only the software side of the equation. Therefore, whilst you're entitled to your point of view, don't believe that you speak from any position of authority, you've just got an opinion.

Last edited by HenryCase on 06-Sep-2010 at 12:45 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 12:42:34
#375 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8486
From: Unknown

@Hammer

Quote:
You are forgetting Amiga Forver and it's live boot CD.


Already existing licence, mentioned in Agreement.

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_ThEcRoW 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 12:49:01
#376 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 825
From: Murcia (Spain)

Can someone tell me why aros is illegal in regards to os4? Heck aros uses different code from os4.Could be possible that hyperion fears losses on the x1000 becuse the commodore x86 machines announce and want to wipe it out?

Last edited by _ThEcRoW on 06-Sep-2010 at 12:52 PM.
Last edited by _ThEcRoW on 06-Sep-2010 at 12:51 PM.
Last edited by _ThEcRoW on 06-Sep-2010 at 12:51 PM.

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rebraist 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 12:50:09
#377 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Jul-2010
Posts: 148
From: Italia - Napoli

I think hyperion guys, if they want to continue to earn money by developing "the software" (...), and survive, have to go x86.
Surely they've thought it too.
It's expensive and risky, but who knows?
Surely if other 10 year pass in this way, amiga will be only an "obscure thing come from the past", and there'll be no lawyers that'll make something to stop it.
MR. SONY!! MR. SONY!! IF YOU HEAR THIS DESPERATE CRY, BUY THIS SHIP, MR. SONY, PLEASE!!
Amiga as a third choice need pioneers.Nor lawyers nor bankers.Just pioneers.

Last edited by rebraist on 06-Sep-2010 at 12:51 PM.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 12:52:24
#378 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1252
From: CRO

@_ThEcRoW

Te "AROS is probably illegal" statement was made several years ago.

Offcourse they fear new competition. In a market as small as this one, every customer counts. Not only this, but any newcomers will be deciding between an Commodore Amiga running AROS and AmigaOne running OS4...

How many of those newcomers will go for the 2000 euro Aone not capable of running anything else other than OS4... not many. If any....

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pavlor 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 12:55:57
#379 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8486
From: Unknown

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:
but any newcomers will be deciding between an Commodore Amiga running AROS and AmigaOne running OS4...


To be more precise: any newcomers will be deciding between its own computer running AROS and SAM running OS4.

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cha05e90 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 12:56:10
#380 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2009
Posts: 1256
From: Germany

@WolfToTheMoon

Huh? Where did you read that?

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