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      /  AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
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ruben 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 14:41:57
#401 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 364
From: Portugal

@TCMSLP

What you're saying makes sense. I admit that it would be weird to buy something called Commodore Amiga and find out it boots into Windows or Ubuntu. But unfortunately, the world does not want Amiga(oid) OS.
I can see nostalgic folks buying a computer that looks like the computers of the good old days, but it has to run an OS they can use today. It's the best of both worlds really: nostalgic but still functional.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 14:42:22
#402 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1252
From: CRO

@djrikki

yes, you can quote me on that, but they are currently some 1200 (active)users of OS4 if you go by the number on amigans... I'm pretty sure not all of them can afford to buy X1000. So divide that number between Sam460 and X1000(OK, some people will buy both maybe) and you come to 500 for a major market success for X1000. Add newcomers and you'll be hard pressed to conclude they'll sell above 1000 units. Needs or not, some people just can't afford to cash out 2000 euros or maybe even more.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 14:43:54
#403 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1252
From: CRO

@ruben

Quote:
I can see nostalgic folks buying a computer that looks like the computers of the good old days, but it has to run an OS they can use today. It's the best of both worlds really: nostalgic but still functional.


FINALLY, someone gets it!

YES! And if they want, they can still run old applications in emulators or boot AROS

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RedMelons 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 14:50:46
#404 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 1062
From: Merrie Olde England

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:
Well, then I wonder just how many X1000s will be sold


Definitely fewer than the number of SE's, XE's and Micro's that were sold - and even they weren't viable.

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Hammer 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 14:52:52
#405 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3925
From: Australia

@Dandy

Quote:

See, this is the difference in our way of thinking.
I take the reliability of an company into account.
And as far as the Amiga is concerned, it wasn't created by Commodore - it was created by Amiga. Amiga then was bought by Commodore.

From http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/prototypes/lorraine.html

At that time, it was called Lorraine and it wasn't finish i.e. "The prototype consisted of four breadboards that were cabled together, requiring it's own seat on the plane"

Commodore initiated a number of changes that would upgrade sections of the design, make it cheaper to manufacture, and increase the speed of development:

the modem and cartridge port disappeared
Memory was upgraded from 128k to 256k
double-sided 3 1/2 disk drive was introduced as standard, ignoring the 320k IBM unit.
Finally, the initial OS, codenamed CAOS, was discarded in favour of the integration of TripOS and Intuition
The logic ICs were finalized, creating the familiar Amiga chipset (recursively known as OCS - Original ChipSet)

Last edited by Hammer on 06-Sep-2010 at 02:55 PM.

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djrikki 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 14:56:46
#406 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2010
Posts: 2075
From: Grimsby, UK

@WolfToTheMoon

Le sigh.

But when Amiga has FireFox (later this year) and OpenOffice (q2 2011), multi-core support etc etc... it will become more than just a machine for running games and emulator stuff.

Just think about what the average user wants these days...

Surf the Net = FireFox can do it all (forget Flash it will be dead in a couple of years hallelujah)....

..... Write a Letter, Do some Home Accounting or Present a (powerpoint) Presentation = OpenOffice can do all that and more.

... download Music and play on my mp3 Player. Plenty of other resources aside from iTunes. The world said a big FO (including iTunes Store) to DRM so pretty much any audio player can playback purchased music.

... Log on facebook etc.. again FireFox.. I mean Timberwolf =P

... Watch a movie on YouTube.... again HTML 5 is on the way

All this will be widely possible on the Amiga platform within the next 12 months.

AROS is like 15 years (or something) behind AmigaOS.

Last edited by djrikki on 06-Sep-2010 at 02:57 PM.

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Hammer 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 15:01:08
#407 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3925
From: Australia

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:

WolfToTheMoon wrote:
@djrikki

yes, you can quote me on that, but they are currently some 1200 (active)users of OS4 if you go by the number on amigans... I'm pretty sure not all of them can afford to buy X1000. So divide that number between Sam460 and X1000(OK, some people will buy both maybe) and you come to 500 for a major market success for X1000. Add newcomers and you'll be hard pressed to conclude they'll sell above 1000 units. Needs or not, some people just can't afford to cash out 2000 euros or maybe even more.

Dell's Alienware says hi on $$$$ price.

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terminills 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 15:02:28
#408 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1232
From: Unknown

@djrikki

Since you keep saying Aros is so far behind AmigaOS ... Would you mind stating in what ways?

I'm curious personally.

Tim

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 15:04:04
#409 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1252
From: CRO

@djrikki

Quote:
But when Amiga has FireFox (later this year) and OpenOffice (q2 2011), multi-core support etc etc... it will become more than just a machine for running games and emulator stuff.


That's commendable, but still way behind the curve and way behind being usable for anything other than basic needs. All that you can do on a 200-300 euro Atom machine. And thanks to clusterUK, + AROS

As to AROS, I have been told they are going for SMP and memory protection with a few things more.

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T-J 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 15:04:34
#410 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:
Offcourse they fear new competition. In a market as small as this one, every customer counts. Not only this, but any newcomers will be deciding between an Commodore Amiga running AROS and AmigaOne running OS4...
How many of those newcomers will go for the 2000 euro Aone not capable of running anything else other than OS4... not many. If any....


Well, me for one. A 1000 euro Sam460ex, actually, but still. A PC running Ubuntu doesn't bring anything I don't already have to the table. A Power Architecture machine running Amiga OS 4 brings the Amiga OS to the table.

@Hammer

Quote:
Does AROS breach United States copyright law?


If Amiga Inc license an Amiga branded product running it, then that act will be in breach of the terms of the Agreement, being an OS exhibiting a substantially similar software architecture. If CommodoreUSA sell their 'PC-64' running it, with no involvement from Amiga Inc, then no, not as far as I know.
After all, ClusterUK has been selling PCs with AROS on for a while now, with no legal consequences.


@Vidarh

Well, its a small legal risk, yes. But I was also thinking of the risk of giving a bad impression. To a newcomer like me, Amiga Inc doesn't look like an entirely reputable operation, and from what other AW.net members have discovered about Barry Altman's business history, he'd be better off avoiding even the suggestion of shadiness in his business partners, at least until after he's established his PC-64s in the marketplace and proved his reliability.


Regardless, I agree Hyperion would be better advised to go after the Amiga Inc side and leave the Commodore revival side of the operation well alone. After all, there's no real conflict between a company selling a 'PC=64' and another selling a 'PowerAmiga'.

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pavlor 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 15:05:43
#411 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8415
From: Unknown

@terminills

Quote:
Since you keep saying Aros is so far behind AmigaOS ... Would you mind stating in what ways?


Eg. memory management, filesystems, compatibility...

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djrikki 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 15:07:16
#412 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2010
Posts: 2075
From: Grimsby, UK

@terminills

Every significant development ever made post 1994 / OS 3.1; excluding the small bits from 3.5/3.9.

Too many to mention.

@WolfToTheMoon

I'll quote you again...

"....in modern western society wants >> needs"

EDIT: I think you posted earlier, but forgive me if I am wrong. Seems that the only thing you used Amiga for 'back in the day' was for games. The other large chunk of the user base loved it for everything else as well. So perhaps you don't fully appreciate what Amiga was at the time (aside from 'awesome' games). Its certainly questionable how this can be applied in 2010, but plenty of people now in their 30s won't have suddenly forgotten the Amiga legacy. Just look at the hit ratio on youtube?

People pay for the experience of it all. Like myself, I have been a fan of Apple products since 2005, I own a Mac Mini (intel), iBook G4 and a iMac (intel). I know I paid extra for the privilege, but I fully enjoy the experience of not once having to use MS Windows. And by purchasing these I accepted I would be severely hampered by lack of software - which believe me - is still the case!

Last edited by djrikki on 06-Sep-2010 at 03:20 PM.
Last edited by djrikki on 06-Sep-2010 at 03:19 PM.
Last edited by djrikki on 06-Sep-2010 at 03:09 PM.

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TCMSLP 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 15:11:07
#413 ]
Member
Joined: 27-Nov-2009
Posts: 40
From: Unknown

Plus there are companies still writing and selling software for Amiga OS. I'm sure others can provide examples if needed.

Again, I have no problem with the new Commodore PC. If they market this as 'complete with Amiga Emulator', perhaps licence/bundle Amiga Forever then great! However, the box itself is *not* an Amiga if it can only run the old OS3.x under emulation or AROS.

Common sense says 'Amiga' should stay associated with the current Amiga hardware/OS which is capable of running Amiga applications. A PC from Commodore should simply be labelled as just that; The Commodore PC. This wouldn't mislead buyers and it wouldn't have a damaging effect on the real Amiga OS and hardware. All camps would be happy.

Now all we'll have is people bitching on both sides, negative comments posted to review sites, bitchy blog posts, probably damaging all parties involved.

I hope Commodore USA develop some common sense and don't damage what is already a fragile market to simply cash in on the branding. Most non-Amigans will be more familiar with the brand Commodore anyway - 'Amiga' is of little relevance to these people.

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terminills 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 15:11:55
#414 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1232
From: Unknown

@djrikki

So basically you really don't have any facts to back that up. You're just emotionally using it to support your arguement.

Tim
Edit: as an Aros supporter I can list the places where Aros needs work. but I can also list the places where Aros is more advanced the AmigaOS.

Last edited by terminills on 06-Sep-2010 at 03:14 PM.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 15:14:48
#415 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1252
From: CRO

@pavlor

Quote:
If Amiga Inc license an Amiga branded product running it, then that act will be in breach of the terms of the Agreement, being an OS exhibiting a substantially similar software architecture


depends on what you think when saying substantially similar. It may be similar, but is it "substantially" similar? IMHO, it would be very difficult to, first define substantially similar, then prove AROS is that.

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ruben 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 15:18:18
#416 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 364
From: Portugal

@RedMelons

Initial production run of the X1000 is 250 units.

http://www.ppa.pl/artykul-Trevor.Dickinson.June.2010.-3_32_1257.html

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T-J 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 15:18:46
#417 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@WolfToTheMoon

As I have said before, it is an API clone.

Substantially similar only begins to describe it.

We've had CommodoreUSA people (well, Leo Nigro) on this forum stating that AROS has been provided to give old Amigans something to play with and satisfy their demand for an 'Amiga-like' OS.

Surely, the very branding of AROS as 'Amiga-like' means that its own developers consider it to be 'Substantially Similar' to The Software, that is, Amiga OS 3.1.

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djrikki 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 15:35:01
#418 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2010
Posts: 2075
From: Grimsby, UK

@terminills

So basically you really don't have any facts to back that up. You're just emotionally using it to support your arguement.

---

The fact is AmigaOS has been under more or less continual development since 1994. It says it all really... no further citation required.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 15:35:07
#419 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1252
From: CRO

@T-J

Quote:
Surely, the very branding of AROS as 'Amiga-like' means that its own developers consider it to be 'Substantially Similar' to The Software, that is, Amiga OS 3.1.


I know, but the developers will not decide whether it is "substantially similar", the court would.

Being -like something doesn't make you substantially similar. ReactOS has a goal of being NT-like... is it substantially similar? In execution or in code? What is the definition of substantially similar? IMHO, that term could be interpreted in any number of ways and make any court case very unlikely in this situation.

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Hammer 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 15:37:58
#420 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3925
From: Australia

@T-J

Quote:


@Hammer

Quote:
Does AROS breach United States copyright law?


If Amiga Inc license an Amiga branded product running it, then that act will be in breach of the terms of the Agreement, being an OS exhibiting a substantially similar software architecture.

Only in the context of, "to the extent that such Software Architecture is protectable under the copyright laws of the United States(1).

Again, does AROS breach AmigaOS's protectable copyright?

1. http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/washington/wawdce/2:2007cv00631/143245/147/1.pdf
Page 28/46

Ultimately, disagreements has to be tested in the court system.

Last edited by Hammer on 06-Sep-2010 at 03:42 PM.

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