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djrikki 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 14:39:47
#421 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2010
Posts: 2075
From: Grimsby, UK

@Hammer

I guess we will find out in the end.

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number6 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 14:44:02
#422 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9889
From: In the village

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:
Yeah, but remember, for some people in Hyperion, "AROS is probably illegal"


Dropping in wiki spam doesn't exactly explain much. This does:

Quote:
AROS: Renaming project
According to Aaron Digulla, initiator of the open source code operating system AROS, the name "Amiga" will be deleted from the project name because of the legal steps of Amiga Inc. against Hyperion.


Source

#6

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terminills 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 14:44:03
#423 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1234
From: Unknown

@djrikki


Really ... So AmigaOS has a 64bit version you can use today? Is AmigaOS4's standard USB better then Aros'? How about 3d? how About wifi stack?

Sure Aros' printer support sucks, Memory Protection would be nice so would SMP, Acpi would also be nice. But sorry there are many places Aros does surpass OS4.





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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 14:44:20
#424 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1252
From: CRO

@Hammer

Quote:
Only in the context of, "to the extent that such Software Architecture is protectable under the copyright laws of the United States(1). Again, does AROS breach AmigaOS's protectable copyright? 1. http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/washington/wawdce/2:2007cv00631/143245/147/1.pdf Page 28/46


Nicely spotted, I missed that... So, it means there's no case here.

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Hammer 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 14:51:59
#425 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3925
From: Australia

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:

WolfToTheMoon wrote:
@T-J

Quote:
Surely, the very branding of AROS as 'Amiga-like' means that its own developers consider it to be 'Substantially Similar' to The Software, that is, Amiga OS 3.1.


I know, but the developers will not decide whether it is "substantially similar", the court would.

Being -like something doesn't make you substantially similar. ReactOS has a goal of being NT-like... is it substantially similar? In execution or in code? What is the definition of substantially similar? IMHO, that term could be interpreted in any number of ways and make any court case very unlikely in this situation.


Commodore already has Amigo... Microsoft has to pay $20 million dollars(1) for Lindows Inc's Lindows trademark i.e. only 1 character difference.
MS lost the court case against Lindows Inc..

Lindows has WINE (not an emulator) which can run Windows apps natively. As you may already know, WINE share's it's source code with the ReactOS group.

Hyperion has exclusive rights on Amiga OS, AmigaOS, AmigaOne, Amiga One trademarks.

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_v._Lindows

Last edited by Hammer on 06-Sep-2010 at 02:59 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 06-Sep-2010 at 02:57 PM.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 14:54:08
#426 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1252
From: CRO

@Hammer

Amigo will be dropped/renamed, as said by Mr. Nigro on this very forum.

Last edited by WolfToTheMoon on 06-Sep-2010 at 02:54 PM.

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Hammer 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 15:01:30
#427 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3925
From: Australia

@djrikki

Quote:

djrikki wrote:
@Hammer

I guess we will find out in the end.

I'm guessing it's your turn to buy the popcorn.

Last edited by Hammer on 06-Sep-2010 at 03:02 PM.

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Mechanic 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 15:04:54
#428 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Jul-2003
Posts: 2007
From: Unknown

@WolfToTheMoon

But what about ubantu

OOPS! I meant Lynx OS.

Last edited by Mechanic on 06-Sep-2010 at 04:43 PM.

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vidarh 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 15:50:43
#429 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Jan-2010
Posts: 580
From: London, UK (ex-pat; originally from Norway)

@Hammer

It's a interesting conundrum.

A "software architecture" as defined in the settlement is not protectable by copyright other than as embodied in documentation (e.g. the documentation / specification can be copyrighted) or in an actual program (in which case that embodiment of the architecture - the specific software - will be protected, but not the architecture itself).

You can't copyright an idea, thankfully.

And copyright protection of the actual software requires the code to be very similar in implementation.

But note that the line you quoted does not say anything about copyrighted by whom. It would certainly seem to apply to AROS, but that does not in any way imply that AROS is infringing.

Which makes the construction quite strange. Any embodiment of a software architecture would be "protectable under the copyright laws of the United States", with a very few exceptions (work done by the US federal government for example).

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ChrisH 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 18:52:39
#430 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@WolfToTheMoon Quote:

Quote:
I have to say I don't have any understanding of why someone would want to buy a generic PC that just has some name (e.g. Commodore or Amiga) stuck to it. If that's the case then buy a generic PC & make your own label to stick on it. The result will be exactly the same!

Like I said, if it's nicely done and nicely designed and I can be productive with it, I'll buy a branded PC, no matter the name. Hence, going by that logic, I'll buy a PC branded Commodore or Amiga. Like I said many times, I'm no hard-core amigan.

Your answer doesn't make sense to me (and also doesn't fit with your comments elsewhere) :

There are hundreds (if not thousands) of brands, and thousands (if not tens of thousands) of branded PC models. The chances of you buying a Commodore/Amiga branded one *just* because of it being branded is so close to zero as makes no difference. So either you are buying a Commodore/Amiga branded generic PC because of the name, or you not buying one at all.

In which case, I point you back to what I originally said about putting a Commodore/Amiga label on a generic PC (it can be a real genuine branded PC like Dell or Acer if you like).

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ChrisH 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 19:04:10
#431 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@T-J Quote:
AROS is an API clone of Amiga OS 3.1, identified in the Agreement as 'The Software'. Amiga Inc are prohibited from selling anything running a substantially similar software architecture, either by themselves or through licensees. This includes any substantially similar software, not just one developed by Amiga Inc. No doubt Hyperion would have had MorphOS and AROS in mind when they negotiated this aspect of the agreement.

Hey, good point! I should have re-read the agreement. Looks like Amiga Inc messed-up when (if) they gave the Amiga name to CommodoreUSA, unless they agree to NOT ship it running AROS. If Amiga Inc didn't make this clear when licensing it to CommodoreUSA, then their license may be invalid?

EDIT: Reading later posts, seems it may not be quite so simple after all...

Last edited by ChrisH on 06-Sep-2010 at 07:22 PM.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 19:09:00
#432 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1252
From: CRO

@ChrisH

Quote:
Looks like Amiga Inc messed-up when (if) they gave the Amiga name to CommodoreUSA, unless they agree to NOT ship it running AROS. If Amiga Inc didn't make this clear when licensing it to CommodoreUSA, then their license may be invalid?


I think you need to reread some of the comments already posted... My conclusion from all of this that there is a bigger chance that earth stops spinning tonight ar 2:41 am than Hyperion having any chance to contest this agreement(between C= and amiga). They can certainly try, though... their money to burn

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ChrisH 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 19:10:52
#433 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@WolfToTheMoon Quote:
What can I do on X1000 that warrants me paying 2000 euros

It can run AmigaOS4 (on the fastest hardware available). If you don't want to run OS4, then you won't want an X1000 (or Sam440, etc).

Personally speaking I find OS4 far nicer to use than Windows/etc, but I'm not expecting you to feel the same way.

Last edited by ChrisH on 06-Sep-2010 at 07:25 PM.

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ChrisH 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 19:15:38
#434 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@RedMelons Quote:
the ... SE's, XE's and Micro's ... weren't viable

Because Eyetech sold them with a relatively small profit margin, and then had to deal with huge numbers of returns due to design flaws & manufacturing problems. By contrast, ACube seem to have done well enough with the Sam440s, not least because they are actually pretty reliable & don't have any major flaws. So as long as X1000 is well tested before being sold (hence the Beta program) then no problem.

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T-J 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 19:30:49
#435 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Aug-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:
I think you need to reread some of the comments already posted... My conclusion from all of this that there is a bigger chance that earth stops spinning tonight ar 2:41 am than Hyperion having any chance to contest this agreement(between C= and amiga).


And mine is that selling Amiga branded machines with AROS constitutes a clear breach of the settlement between Hyperion and Amiga Inc. Neither of us are any less biased than the other, though, and neither has access to any more information. So let's just wait and see.

@ChrisH

Its definitely not simple, but the text of the settlement seems to include releasing (either on its own or through licensees) an Amiga branded computer running an OS substantially similar to The Software as one of the things Amiga Inc is forbidden to do. As I read it, licensing a 'Commodore-Amiga' running just Ubuntu or Windows would be something Hyperion wouldn't be able to do anything about. But having an 'Amiga-like' in there too is precisely the sort of thing they sought to prevent when they negotiated that part of the Settlement.

The other major point is about *If* Amiga Inc has actually granted the license. I personally wouldn't expect Bill McEwen to resurface, let alone license a product that would risk placing him right back in the courtroom. If the allegations on the freeamiga page have any truth to them, I would imagine the last thing he'd want would be lawyers digging around in Amiga Inc's past.

Last edited by T-J on 06-Sep-2010 at 07:40 PM.

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ChrisH 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 21:07:42
#436 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@T-J Quote:
The other major point is about *If* Amiga Inc has actually granted the license. I personally wouldn't expect Bill McEwen to resurface, let alone license a product that would risk placing him right back in the courtroom.

Yes, this is a very interesting question:

On the one hand it seems highly suspicious that the Amiga name only gets "licensed" after Amiga Inc seems to have disappeared from the face of the internet (which also lends suspicion to AI being wound-down by their investors).

On the other hand, if Amiga Inc is being wound-down, then it makes sense for the investors to sell anything that Amiga Inc still has of value. Which may be little more than Teh Name. Although I find it unlikely that CommodoreUSA would be able to pay more for it than any number of other companies (who have more than 2 employees), so this still seems rather suspicious.

Last edited by ChrisH on 06-Sep-2010 at 09:09 PM.

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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

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terminills 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 21:29:16
#437 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1234
From: Unknown

@pavlor

I missed your reply earlier ... I certainly agree with those points ... however to claim it is behind in every way is foolish. which was my original point =]

Tim

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nikosidis 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 6-Sep-2010 22:26:24
#438 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 586
From: Norway, Oslo

Whatever you say, people will stop when they see Commodore Amiga again.
They for sure have to make it little special in some way. Else people will not go for it.

I guess a custom Linux distro where they use Ram-disk etc.. could be it.



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Valiant 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 7-Sep-2010 3:07:35
#439 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Oct-2003
Posts: 1074
From: West of Eden, VT USA

@opi

Quote:

opi wrote:
@Dandy

Quote:
Amiga ≠ x86


Using your logic PPC is also out of the loop, too. There was never a computer called Amiga that was shipped with PowerPC chip. Yet, there was a project that married X86 and AmigaOS blessed by Amiga, Inc. Amithlon.



You are right, there never was a computer called Amiga that shipped with PPC chips. But the PPC boards that were were also 'blessed' by Amiga, Inc.

Last edited by Valiant on 07-Sep-2010 at 03:12 AM.

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pavlor 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 7-Sep-2010 7:37:23
#440 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8486
From: Unknown

@terminills

Quote:
however to claim it is behind in every way is foolish.


Exactly.

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