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nikosidis 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 7-Sep-2010 13:01:12
#461 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 585
From: Norway, Oslo

@WolfToTheMoon

haha, we said almost the same :D

I could make a distro for c-usa with everything ready for native users. No problemo

They could even supply the cd or dvd with the Commodore Amigas.

As long as it is not installed on the hardware, who could deny them that.

Last edited by nikosidis on 07-Sep-2010 at 01:03 PM.

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Dandy 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 7-Sep-2010 13:15:35
#462 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Mar-2003
Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:

WolfToTheMoon wrote:
@Dandy

Quote:


If you set value on having "somewhat more expensive products", you'd be quite well served with the A1X1000, wouldn't you?



What can I do on X1000 that warrants me paying 2000 euros + OS4.x?



Fun is what YOU make of it!


Quote:

WolfToTheMoon wrote:

Because for that money I can buy a used car or several nice x86 computers or a nice vintage Fender...



One can always find different ways to spend his money on.

Quote:

WolfToTheMoon wrote:

All of which will return their investment and make me productive. X1000 will just make me 2000 euros poorer



Even my good old A4kPPC still makes me productive.
I expect a boost in productivity with the A1X1000.

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

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Dandy 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 7-Sep-2010 13:21:53
#463 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Mar-2003
Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany

@vidarh

Quote:

vidarh wrote:
@Dandy

Quote:


But there ARE computers that are called "Amiga" and have been expanded with an accelerator with an PowerPC chip onboard.
I have one of them.



Why doesn't that argument mean that x86 is fine too? I had a bridge board in my A2000.



And I had a Vortex ATOnce286 classic in my A500 that ran MS-DOS and Windows286 in monochrome.

Quote:

vidarh wrote:

I do have a soft spot for PPC, and I dislike x86 a great deal despite using it daily (or perhaps because of...) but I think a lot of the opposition to x86 in the Amiga camp(s), including much of my own, is emotional rather than based on anything rational.



Certainly correct today.
But back when the decision for PPC was made, the PPC outperformed the CPUs used in IBM compatibles and it looked like Intel would not be able to catch up.

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

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nikosidis 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 7-Sep-2010 13:24:24
#464 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 585
From: Norway, Oslo

@Dandy

PPC never outperformed x86 cpus. It was only in the commercials they did that.

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Dandy 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 7-Sep-2010 13:43:48
#465 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Mar-2003
Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:

WolfToTheMoon wrote:


I don't think Workbench would be legally feasible...

How bout a hybrid of Kickstart and workbench... Kickbench
...



I'd prefer 'Workstart'...

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

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T-J 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 7-Sep-2010 13:46:12
#466 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@BigBentheAussie

Quote:
Who owns the Workbench trademark? I'm pretty sure it is Amiga Inc. We could probably just drop Commodore from the title and just call it Workbench.... Is that what you want? Really? Don't you think we're getting enough heat over AROS as it is right now without bringing the issue of A.Inc's involvement into this further? We wanted to do AROS well before we contacted Amiga Inc. but now I'm not so sure we can even proceed.


You can proceed with AROS on your 'PC-64' idea, no problem and no question. Hyperion would neither want to nor be able to block that, since the PC-64 doesn't go anywhere near the Amiga trademarks. It would be best for you to just start shipping those PC-64s as soon as possible, to prove to us cynics that you are genuine.

My advice is that you should establish yourselves in the market under the Commodore brand, and leave sorting out the Amiga trademarks issue until after you've proved your business plan on the C=64. In the event that your business model proves successful, you could then start spending some real money on this. Imagine a reasonable return on the PC-64, with the profits reinvested in an AMD-64 port of AmigaOS by Hyperion.

But this is just castles in the sky until you've actually proved the business model. Work on avoiding the fate of Acorn (2006) and on earning the confidence of the community first. That'll be hard enough on its own without getting dragged into the AmigaInc mess.

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Dandy 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 7-Sep-2010 13:47:51
#467 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Mar-2003
Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany

@nikosidis

Quote:

nikosidis wrote:
@Dandy

PPC never outperformed x86 cpus. It was only in the commercials they did that.



Back in the first half of the ninetees they did.
Maybe you are a liitle bit too young to know that...

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

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Hammer 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 7-Sep-2010 14:04:45
#468 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3925
From: Australia

@Dandy

Quote:

Dandy wrote:
@nikosidis

Quote:

nikosidis wrote:
@Dandy

PPC never outperformed x86 cpus. It was only in the commercials they did that.



Back in the first half of the ninetees they did.
Maybe you are a liitle bit too young to know that...

68K-to-PowerPC migration was gimped by the slow 68K emulation.

_________________
AmigaOS 4.1 FE U1 + MS Windows 10 Pro X64
Intel i7-4790K @ 4.5 Ghz, DDR3-2133 16GB RAM, MSI GeForce GTX 980 Ti Gaming

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Hammer 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 7-Sep-2010 14:09:42
#469 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3925
From: Australia

@T-J

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/washington/wawdce/2:2007cv00631/143245/147/1.pdf

Page 26/48, Section G,

g. Exclusive Licensed Marks means "AmigaOS", "Amiga OS", "AmigaOne" and "Amiga One".

_________________
AmigaOS 4.1 FE U1 + MS Windows 10 Pro X64
Intel i7-4790K @ 4.5 Ghz, DDR3-2133 16GB RAM, MSI GeForce GTX 980 Ti Gaming

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 7-Sep-2010 14:12:23
#470 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1252
From: CRO

@Hammer

Workbench was never mentioned in that document?

So that means either it is not a trademark or Amiga Inc owns it and never transferred/licensed those rights to hyperion...

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cha05e90 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 7-Sep-2010 14:28:08
#471 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2009
Posts: 1252
From: Germany

@WolfToTheMoon

"Workbench" might be a "trademark". But "Workbench" is also part of "the software". And "the software" IS mentioned...

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X1000|II/G4|440ep|2000/060|2000/040|1000

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BigBentheAussie 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 7-Sep-2010 15:09:50
#472 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1690
From: Melbourne, Australia

@nikosidis

This hosted AROS alternative has got me thinking.....

(brainstorming mode on)

We've all been talking about Anubis for so long...and its Linux underpinnings.
Perhaps the answer is obvious..and we can do something in a similar vein..
possibly out of necessity because of these legal shenanigans.
I don't know.
As we know AROS sticks to completing the AmigaOS API.
BUT THEN
We are thinking of creating our own distinctive Linux distro for the PC64 anyway.
Perhaps called "Commodore OS". Not sure we can get away with "Workbench".
Something a little different but hopefully cool. Maybe something E17 based.
If the User wants they can then trigger the auto download and setup of AROS in a virtual machine.
THEN
Perhaps we can do some sort of coherence mode....similar to how Windows runs in MacOSX, that melds the two UI's together.

Then we get the best of both worlds.
A) A modern software stack through Linux,
B) a classic API with a form of memory protection through the virtual machine
C) a base to continue the further development of AROS.
D) no need to concern ourselves with native hardware drivers.

(brainstorming mode off)

We would effectively be creating a super Linux-AROS-Workbench hybrid.
Perhaps that makes no sense...
What do you think?

_________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

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Leo 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 7-Sep-2010 15:18:37
#473 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1552
From: Unknown

Quote:

Who owns the Workbench trademark?
I'm pretty sure it is Amiga Inc.

I have no idea.

Quote:

We could probably just drop Commodore from the title and just call it Workbench....

No, I meant: "Commodore Workbench", nothing more...

Since you seem to be targeted the oldschool people, I think "Workbench" means a lot to them.

Now, do you think you could get a licence to the Amiga ROM as well ? Unless you produce some ready-to-play solution (ie: with UAE fully configured with a valid ROM) I don't think it will work out.

Something different but that would work: have you thought about building some "Amiga in a Joystick" thing ? They sold a lot of C64 like these, and I'm pretty sure it would work out for the Amiga too.

There isn't that much work remaining to do: a fully working reimplementation of the Amiga computer already exists in the form of the Minimig. What remains to be done is to reduce it's size and to mass-produce it. You'd also need some games but a lot are already available for free, so contacting the owners to obtain a valid license for your system without a problem.

To sum up, you would need:

- obtain the rights to distribute the kickstart ROM image (WB disks could be useful too, but 99% games will run without it)
- obtain the rights to distribute some games (all Team17 games are available for free already, so maybe the owners would be ready for some agreement ?)
- make a smaller version of the Minimig

Of course, do some marketing,...

And if I was to use an existing Linux distribution, I would go for Linux Mint: that's an elegant easy to use Linux, and that's what was (once) the Amiga to me.

Last edited by Leo on 07-Sep-2010 at 03:23 PM.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 7-Sep-2010 15:18:54
#474 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1252
From: CRO

@BigBentheAussie

YES! I completely agree with you!

Customized linux distro with amiga-like GUI + hosted AROS available by download .
Excellent thinking.

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T-J 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 7-Sep-2010 15:20:49
#475 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@BigBentheAussie

Wikipedia article on Ubuntu

You've got Ubuntu the Gnome flavour, Kubuntu the KDE flavour, Xubuntu with XFCE and now Lubuntu with LXDE.

To make your Ubuntu PCs different, just design your own desktop environment, inventing 'C=Ubuntu' in the process. Or if that's beyond CommodoreUSA's resources at present, re-brand and restyle one of the existing ones, with an eye towards doing your own desktop environment later.

Whatever, but you're far less likely to get suck in court doing that than you would be trying to brand AROS as Workbench. I don't know the details, but it seems to me that the Workbench trademark in the context of desktop environments is inextricably linked to AmigaOS and would provoke precisely the kind of legal shenanigans you'd prefer to avoid.

Last edited by T-J on 07-Sep-2010 at 03:22 PM.

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BigBentheAussie 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 7-Sep-2010 15:25:07
#476 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1690
From: Melbourne, Australia

@Leo

Quote:
Something different but that would work: have you thought about building some "Amiga in a Joystick" thing ? They sold a lot of C64 like these, and I'm pretty sure it would work out for the Amiga too. There isn't that much work remaining to do: a fully working reimplementation of the Amiga computer already exists in the form of the Minimig. What remains to be done is to reduce it's size and to mass-produce it. You'd also need some games but a lot are already available for free, so contacting the owners to obtain a valid license for your system without a problem.


Hmmm....How about sticking Minimig in something like the Amigo.
I was hoping for Natami....but they look a long way off.

_________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

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BigBentheAussie 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 7-Sep-2010 15:28:23
#477 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1690
From: Melbourne, Australia

@T-J

Quote:
inextricably linked to AmigaOS and would provoke precisely the kind of legal shenanigans you'd prefer to avoid.

I think I stated that above. I agree 100%.

_________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 7-Sep-2010 15:28:33
#478 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1252
From: CRO

@BigBentheAussie

Quote:
I was hoping for Natami....but they look a long way off.


and it will probably be rather expensive product with which you'll not be able to, again, run modern software. I say they are targeting a completely different audience, 68K users, who want some more power and are willing to pay.

I say Commodore OS is a good start. Go with that first, no need for minimigs and natamis, poeple could buy that one way or another.

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nikosidis 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 7-Sep-2010 15:53:28
#479 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 585
From: Norway, Oslo

@BigBentheAussie

Yes, that would be a good idea.

What I'm not that pleased about is that AROS exept for the native version is very much faster and better running hosted under Linux than any virtual mashine alternative. That could be possible to changed though. I guess a virtual mashine could take advantage of the several cores that goes with most hardware these days.

Whatever it will be, this is the way to go.

I would also consider what I suggested about leaving a little unformated space on the HDD, for people who like to install Native. That would of cause be on the users own risk. But it should not be any risk at all, done the right way.
c-usa does not have to say that the unfomated space on the HDD is for AROS, cause many will not use it for that.
Lets say the computer come with 1TB HDD. Leave 100GB unfomated. c-usa could just say it is 100GB unformated space on the HDD, if people like to install OS alternative or another partition.

Last edited by nikosidis on 07-Sep-2010 at 03:57 PM.

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BigBentheAussie 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 7-Sep-2010 16:01:47
#480 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1690
From: Melbourne, Australia

@nikosidis

Actually, there may be a problem with leaving such big partitions.
If we do multi-boot, I would imagine things get a little harder with extended partitions.
Not sure.
Edit: More likely to leave a big(formatted) partition for Windows though. Sorry.

Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 07-Sep-2010 at 04:07 PM.

_________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

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