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Leo 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 16-Sep-2010 15:47:55
#561 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1552
From: Unknown

Quote:

This guy can get us more press in 5 minutes than any Commodore and Amiga thing for the last 20 years!!!!!

You may have as much press as you want... if you don't have a nice product to sell, it won't work.

And for now, your "Commodore-Amiga" is just... fantasy, much like your borrowed design.

How much are you going to spend on R&D to backfill these $30 million press ?

Btw, I can hardly believe you can spend $30 million on some press event and can't afford a $5000 website...

Last edited by Leo on 16-Sep-2010 at 03:50 PM.
Last edited by Leo on 16-Sep-2010 at 03:49 PM.

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T-J 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 16-Sep-2010 15:49:14
#562 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@BigBentheAussie

Oh, how sad. Some money men, a lawyer and a slack handful of media hacks. Not a single engineer on the board?

I'll give you one thing, you've definitely revived Commodore, but Amiga? Not in the slightest.


Anyway, how about an answer to my question:

You claim that you've sold more 'Commodore Phoenixes' than there are NG Amiga systems. That must mean at least 5000 sales. Why have we seen no reviews, or indeed no posts anywhere on the internet from excited purchasers declaring that they've just got back into their favourite computer brand?

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Leo 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 16-Sep-2010 15:52:08
#563 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1552
From: Unknown

Quote:
You claim that you've sold more 'Commodore Phoenixes' than there are NG Amiga systems. That must mean at least 5000 sales. Why have we seen no reviews, or indeed no posts anywhere on the internet from excited purchasers declaring that they've just got back into their favourite computer brand?

The same way B.McEwen claimed AmigaAnywhere 2 was better than MacOSX without showing a single demo to anyone ? :)

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ruben 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 16-Sep-2010 15:55:33
#564 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 364
From: Portugal

@Birbo

Quote:
press relaese about a marketing deal, which is in fact an inside job


Nothing shocking about this sort of thing, I've seen well known companies doing it too.

@thread

I'm in cautious/suspicious mode with the whole C=USA thing too, but some of you guys are truly nitpicking here...

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BigBentheAussie 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 16-Sep-2010 16:14:19
#565 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1690
From: Melbourne, Australia

@T-J

There are 5000 NG Amiga systems? !!!
I would have put it at slightly over half that amount.

Very well then, I stand corrected....we didn't sell 5000.
We didn't try to. Still.... we sold a lot of systems.

_________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

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number6 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 16-Sep-2010 16:19:59
#566 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9802
From: In the village

@elatour

Quote:
I was just being hopeful there may be a dim but nevertheless present glimmer of hope that something good could come out of it, ideally even with Hyperion taking part, but I have once again been shown that too many people in this community these days are more interested in shooting down ideas and the people that come up with them than coming up with their own or embracing new ones.


I'm not sure quite as many in the community would have responded the same if it were not for Hyperionmp immediately posting and threatening to sue. I'm sure some folks merely played "follow the leader".

#6

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*Secrecy has served us so well*

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BigBentheAussie 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 16-Sep-2010 16:23:55
#567 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1690
From: Melbourne, Australia

@T-J

First of all... this is the board... not the owners or anything. There's a difference.

"a" lawyer? NO, 2 lawyers!!!!
…and a slack handful of media hacks"?? hmmmm, ex PRES of CLUB MED, with an undergrad degree from Cornell, and MBA from Harvard and another Masters from Columbia, who owned many 100 million dollar companies?? That's a hack?

And the other hack??? Probably one of the top 5 in the entire media world industry.
Look at his creds.

BTW, Barry is an engineer, with a undergrad degree in mechanical engineering and a grad degree in biznez! (MBA)

And for what it is worth after their stellar achievements...
I have a Comp Sci degree and over 15 years software development experience.
I'm not about to rewrite AmigaOS or anything, but I'm not a complete dummy either.

Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 16-Sep-2010 at 04:43 PM.

_________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

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number6 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 16-Sep-2010 16:25:35
#568 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9802
From: In the village

@BigBentheAussie

Quote:
There are 5000 NG Amiga systems? !!!
I would have put it at slightly over half that amount.
Very well then, I stand corrected....we didn't sell 5000.


I think your # is closer. After all, we know that only 300 Micros existed initially and we already determined a reasonable estimate of XE/SE in other threads. Add Peg1/2, Efika, Sams...maybe we're looking at 3000-3500.
Oh...when we talk "still working", the #s are quite a bit lower.

Itix can better supply the Peg estimates.

#6

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*Secrecy has served us so well*

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T-J 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 16-Sep-2010 16:26:54
#569 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@Leo

Sadly likely, yes.

The saddest thing though is that CommodoreUSA's money men are coming in and stamping all over the efforts of smaller groups of engineers and developers. You know, people who actually do stuff?

Anyway, a $30m outlay on advertising alone means we either have a pack of complete and obvious lies or we're dealing with big-league players. In the first case, we sit back and watch the fireworks. In the latter case, we hope that our favourite groups don't get trodden on.



@BigBenTheAussie

You did claim that there were more Phoenixes in the wild than there are AmigaNG systems. I was being inclusive and giving a pessimistic estimate, 5000, of the number of MOS, AOS4 and AROS systems out there.

Well, whatever. Doesn't matter. This explains why there haven't been posts on Commodore fansites, I guess.

While I have your attention, has CommodoreUSA made any contact with Hyperion? Are these Amiga branded PCs ever going to run an x86-64 port of the AmigaOS and thus become real Amiga computers? Before today I would have said that the cost would prohibit this, but if you can afford a $30m ad campaign, wouldn't a million or two so Hyperion can hire extra developers and bring the AmigaOS to the cutting edge also be within your means?

And do you plan to talk to any other Amiga-related company about branding or marketing? Having a PowerAmiga lineup for the enthusiast alongside your x86 games machines would add value to the brand.

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BigBentheAussie 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 16-Sep-2010 16:29:36
#570 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1690
From: Melbourne, Australia

@T-J

Quote:
Why have we seen no reviews, or indeed no posts anywhere on the internet from excited purchasers declaring that they've just got back into their favourite computer brand?

We didn't send any for review... The Phoenix was just to test there was a market.

People on this forum represent 0.001% of our market...if that. Do the math.
The Phoenix was sold as a Commodore, not an Amiga.
Why would they post here on AMIGA world?
Well except me of course.
And I'm wondering why as well.

_________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 16-Sep-2010 16:30:57
#571 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1252
From: CRO

@T-J

Quote:
Are these Amiga branded PCs ever going to run an x86-64 port of the AmigaOS and thus become real Amiga computers? Before today I would have said that the cost would prohibit this, but if you can afford a $30m ad campaign, wouldn't a million or two so Hyperion can hire extra developers and bring the AmigaOS to the cutting edge also be within your means?


1. Hyperion will not do a x86 port
2. even if they had 3 billion dollars, I'd still say it'd be a complete waste of 3 billion dollars to port and "bring AmigaOS to the cutting edge"...
3. If this was 2000., I'd be closer to your points over AmigaOS. Today it's too late for AOS to reappear as anything other then a hobby OS.

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T-J 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 16-Sep-2010 16:32:16
#572 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@BigBenTheAussie

Just because they're extremely successful media men / lawyers / money people , doesn't mean they're not still paper people when placed next to engineers.

Jay Miner was an engineer, not a businessman, and it was his leadership and his idea of how to build a real computer that made the Amiga Corporation and the Amiga itself something worth remembering and rebuilding. That's why I think more highly of the Hyperion-ACube-A-Eon trifecta than I do of CommodoreUSA. They remind me of the Amiga Corporation.


And about the purchasers of Phoenixes - I'd have expected them to post on some sort of Commodore fansite. This is an Amiga fansite, so the Phoenix would have limited appeal here.

@WolfToTheMoon

Let's just give up then. What's the point of trying to achieve anything, after all, when you can just shuffle bits of paper around and make up marketing guff about why this x86 PC is better than that one. Look, its got the chickenhead on it!

Last edited by T-J on 16-Sep-2010 at 04:38 PM.

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BigBentheAussie 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 16-Sep-2010 16:38:37
#573 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1690
From: Melbourne, Australia

@T-J

Quote:

While I have your attention, has CommodoreUSA made any contact with Hyperion?

Yep. Well before Amiga Inc.

Quote:

Are these Amiga branded PCs ever going to run an x86-64 port of the AmigaOS and thus become real Amiga computers?

You mean like AROS.
If you mean Hyperion's product....that is entirely up to Hyperion.

Quote:

Before today I would have said that the cost would prohibit this, but if you can afford a $30m ad campaign, wouldn't a million or two so Hyperion can hire extra developers and bring the AmigaOS to the cutting edge also be within your means?

Unlike old Commodore we're going to spend a hell of a lot on advertising.
Hyperion and MorphOS team don't want to port to x86.
What can I do?

Quote:

And do you plan to talk to any other Amiga-related company about branding or marketing? Having a PowerAmiga lineup for the enthusiast alongside your x86 games machines would add value to the brand.

Like what Amiga-related company? No seriously... what?
We have Commodore brand, we have Amiga brand, we have advertising and marketing heavyweights.
And believe it or not, most importantly, very soon we'll even have new products for you to pick to pieces.

_________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 16-Sep-2010 16:43:45
#574 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1252
From: CRO

@T-J

Quote:
Let's just give up then. What's the point of trying to achieve anything, after all, when you can just shuffle bits of paper around and make up marketing guff about why this x86 PC is better than that one. Look, its got the chickenhead on it!



The time for a completely new AOS x86 port is not now. In a ideal world, x86 port would have been done 10 years ago.
Any new OS must first have a viable economics supporting it, which a start-up company is not.
In a few years, if C=USA manages to proper, then a talk on a entirely new OS might be possible, but even so, not based on any old AOS code and not a x86 port of OS4.
Untill then, a customized linux distro is the maximum possible, which is why I'm supporting that option.

Last edited by WolfToTheMoon on 16-Sep-2010 at 04:44 PM.

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ruben 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 16-Sep-2010 16:49:10
#575 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 364
From: Portugal

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:
Today it's too late for AOS to reappear as anything other then a hobby OS.

With current efforts, sure. But with $3 billion....I don't know, that's a lot of money

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T-J 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 16-Sep-2010 16:52:09
#576 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@BigBentheAussie

Quote:
Like what Amiga-related company? No seriously... what? We have Commodore brand, we have Amiga brand, we have advertising and marketing heavyweights. And believe it or not, most importantly, very soon we'll even have new products for you to pick to pieces.


Welll... A-Eon? ACube?

I'm not asking you to fund them. I'm suggesting to you that you'll deflect much criticism (like most of mine) if your promotional material includes mention of machines that run the Amiga Operating System on custom hardware as the original Lorraine did. That means you would be well-advised to market the X1000 alongside your C=Amiga lineup as a machine for the hardcore enthusiast. Possibly under the 'PowerAmiga' brand, because I like the way that sounds and it would reflect the different CPU architecture.

No cost to you, plus you get to deflect some criticism. And maybe even cheer the community up a bit.


@WolfToTheMoon

I'm not suggesting billions. I'm suggesting providing some initial funding to get the port done. Again, as above it would deflect criticism and would cost a fraction of what they plan to put into advertising.

As for custom Linux distros? Well, I've got a Kubuntu liveCD on my desk that I've been meaning to have a go at, so I'm already well provided for there.

What I really I want is custom hardware with a different OS. Not UNIX on a PC. And you don't need to spin me a fairytale, you'd do what Apple did and make an 'AmigaOS' based around some sort of UNIX.

Last edited by T-J on 16-Sep-2010 at 04:56 PM.
Last edited by T-J on 16-Sep-2010 at 04:54 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 16-Sep-2010 16:57:01
#577 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8416
From: Unknown

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:
Untill then, a customized linux distro is the maximum possible, which is why I'm supporting that option.


Sounds awful...


On the other hand, it was goal of Anubis (RIP) project: Linux kernel with Amiga UI. That would be interesting implementation. Common Linux distribution with some Amiga inspired theme is wrong way, at least in my point of view.

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BigBentheAussie 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 16-Sep-2010 17:08:27
#578 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1690
From: Melbourne, Australia

@T-J

Quote:
Welll... A-Eon? ACube?

We spoke to Ben.
If A-Eon don't have a bug tested board with a working OS ready any time soon then any potential strategic alliance is moot anyway.

As for ACube....do you really think we're going to sell 1Ghz or even sub Ghz machines to the masses today?
SAM is great for this community....but it just won't sell well outside. Of course it wont.
It's just too low spec. If you want it...buy it... We're not stopping you.
The PC64 which will be our low-end machine will be dual core 1.8-2Ghz.

And for that matter, on the subject of trademarks, how come Hyperion or A-Eon aren't granting ACube the AmigaOne name?
Why isn't a SAM officially the AmigaOne X500 for instance?
I think that's a great idea don't you?

Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 16-Sep-2010 at 05:11 PM.

_________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

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pavlor 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 16-Sep-2010 17:15:50
#579 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8416
From: Unknown

@BigBentheAussie

Quote:
Why isn't a SAM officially the AmigaOne X500 for instance?


SAM is good brand of its own for the targeted market. Some people of ACube even contacted Bil lMcEwen about possible A400 name, but at that time A.Inc vs. Hyperion lawsuit appeared.

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T-J 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 16-Sep-2010 17:20:05
#580 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@BigBentheAussie

iPad is a 1GHz machine. Sam460 is tiny, I've seen it. A bit of development cash, Simon Archer's touchscreen drivers, a new UI for the AmigaOS and a case, and you're away.

Aaaanyway, isn't your 'Commodore Amigo' a 1GHz machine?

And as for 'AmigaOne X500', no I don't think its a great idea. 'AmigaOne' is a bad idea from my point of view, because it will be too easy for the enthusiast customer to confuse the X1000 with either your products, or worse, the Eyetech A1s with all their 'interesting' hardware quirks.


My advice to A-Eon is to ditch the AmigaOne brand. Go with any female name. If the money men have got 'Lorraine', then 'Louise' will do. Whoever. I'd buy a 'Gwendolene X1000', frankly, if the specs were right and it ran the Amiga OS.

Oh, and you can call the Amiga OS 'Geoff' if you like and I wouldn't care. As I said, its the attitudes and 'philosophy' behind the OS4 project, the X1000 effort and ACube that have drawn me in.

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