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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Is AmigaOS4.x datatypes using AltiVec?
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Tuxedo 
Is AmigaOS4.x datatypes using AltiVec?
Posted on 30-Nov-2010 13:40:52
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2003
Posts: 2341
From: Perugia, ITALY

Hi ALL!
I tryed my app LoView under MOS2.6 and its really faster than under AmigaOS4.1.2 loading pictures...
Maybe the AmigaOS4.x datatyoes dont uses AltiVec?
And if they dont use...maybe someone would like to compile at least a JPEG datatypes optimised for AltiVec?

Thank you!

Last edited by Tuxedo on 30-Nov-2010 at 01:41 PM.

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Futaura 
Re: Is AmigaOS4.x datatypes using AltiVec?
Posted on 30-Nov-2010 17:30:01
#2 ]
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Joined: 10-May-2004
Posts: 253
From: UK

@Tuxedo

You can't simply compile existing code with AltiVec optimisations with a flick of a compiler switch . The code has to be specifically written to utilise AltiVec, and things like the jpeglib, libpng and zlib (which pretty much all datatypes use) do not have any AltiVec specific optimisations available. Possibly the reason for the speed difference is down to picture.datatype or perhaps the graphics subsystem itself.

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ara 
Re: Is AmigaOS4.x datatypes using AltiVec?
Posted on 30-Nov-2010 21:14:16
#3 ]
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Joined: 11-Jan-2006
Posts: 138
From: Unknown

@Futaura
Quote:
You can't simply compile existing code with AltiVec optimisations with a flick of a compiler switch

I don't know the situation on PowerPCs, but x86 compilers nowadays (even the Java JIT) make use of SSE instructions when emmiting code for for-loops, provided that the situation is not too complex.
That's not comparable to hand-optimized code but the speed-up is measurable. But perhaps such simple automatic optimizations are only of interest for x86 because of their small number of standard registers.

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Tuxedo 
Re: Is AmigaOS4.x datatypes using AltiVec?
Posted on 30-Nov-2010 21:58:21
#4 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2003
Posts: 2341
From: Perugia, ITALY

@Futaura

so no hopes to have and optimized jpeg DataType?
Sound weird to me that only the graphics subsystem and picture.datatypes cad made so BIG difference...

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rzookol 
Re: Is AmigaOS4.x datatypes using AltiVec?
Posted on 30-Nov-2010 22:10:54
#5 ]
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Joined: 4-Oct-2005
Posts: 318
From: Poland, Lublin

@Tuxedo

afaik, jfif.library in MorphOS uses AVec so it could be faster

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Tuxedo 
Re: Is AmigaOS4.x datatypes using AltiVec?
Posted on 30-Nov-2010 23:19:51
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2003
Posts: 2341
From: Perugia, ITALY

@rzookol

Quote:
afaik, jfif.library in MorphOS uses AVec so it could be faster


exactly...
Really FASTER!

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Futaura 
Re: Is AmigaOS4.x datatypes using AltiVec?
Posted on 30-Nov-2010 23:44:57
#7 ]
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Joined: 10-May-2004
Posts: 253
From: UK

@Tuxedo

I shall maybe try recompiling WarpJPEG with the -maltivec option and perform some benchmarks, but I doubt it is going to make much difference to the speed. Have you tried WarpJPEG on MOS? Last time I checked it was a little faster than the MOS supplied jpeg.datatype.

The CGX picture.datatype has always been faster than the AOS picture.datatype since before OS4 and MOS, and fundamentally they remain the same now. IIRC, picture.datatype on OS4 stores data differently causing more memory copies than the CGX/MOS picture.datatype, but this is largely by design and allows greater flexibility with the downside that it is slower.

Presumably LoView uses picture.datatype to load images? If it decodes images itself using jfif.library or jpeglib then that of course is going to be faster than using datatypes.

Last edited by Futaura on 30-Nov-2010 at 11:47 PM.

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Tuxedo 
Re: Is AmigaOS4.x datatypes using AltiVec?
Posted on 1-Dec-2010 0:50:18
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2003
Posts: 2341
From: Perugia, ITALY

@Futaura

LoView was written in Holywood so it uses DataTypes to load images...
On my machine under MOS it works about 30/40% faster loading images than on OS4...
(About 1.4 secs loading 10Mpx images on MOS and about 1.9 under OS41.2)
IMHO the only real differency was the DataTypes, and since under MOS I get so much difference and you say that WarpJPEG was a bit faster than MOS supplied DT why the current OS4 WarpJPEG(that I tryed) have almost the same speed than the standard OS4 DT?
But...you have tryed on an AltiVec machine under MOS or not?

Thank you!

Last edited by Tuxedo on 01-Dec-2010 at 12:54 AM.
Last edited by Tuxedo on 01-Dec-2010 at 12:54 AM.

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Arko 
Re: Is AmigaOS4.x datatypes using AltiVec?
Posted on 1-Dec-2010 8:07:22
#9 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Jan-2007
Posts: 1989
From: Unknown

@Tuxedo

IMR there are quite a lot of differences concerning the Altivec support in MorphOS and AmigaOS4. Maybe you should ask the AmigaOS4 developers about adding the right interfaces and delivering AOS4 with data-types supporting Altivec.

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I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

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Tuxedo 
Re: Is AmigaOS4.x datatypes using AltiVec?
Posted on 1-Dec-2010 13:14:59
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2003
Posts: 2341
From: Perugia, ITALY

@Arko

naturally that's the right way...
I think OS4 developers was reading that topic and maybe someone will reply at that...

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Varthall 
Re: Is AmigaOS4.x datatypes using AltiVec?
Posted on 1-Dec-2010 13:35:52
#11 ]
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Joined: 17-Feb-2004
Posts: 1559
From: Up Rough

@Tuxedo

Are we really sure that the only possible explanation for the speed difference is due to Altivec support? For example, how is Hollywood datatypes handling under OS4 and under MOS? To help isolate the cause of the differences I'd try to use the JPEG datatypes under both OSes outside of Hollywood, e.g. via Multiview. It would be also helpful to try to compare the results on two similar, non-Altivec systems, one running MOS, the other running OS4. Might be also a difference of speed of the entire 2D graphic systems, or of the Radeon 2D drivers.

Varthall

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Tomas 
Re: Is AmigaOS4.x datatypes using AltiVec?
Posted on 1-Dec-2010 15:53:53
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Jul-2003
Posts: 4286
From: Unknown

@Tuxedo
sure it is not your filesystem or hard drives running without DMA or something? I find that affects performance alot as well.

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Tuxedo 
Re: Is AmigaOS4.x datatypes using AltiVec?
Posted on 1-Dec-2010 18:08:12
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2003
Posts: 2341
From: Perugia, ITALY

@Tomas

I tryed to copy the images on ram: and get rather same load times...

Last edited by Tuxedo on 01-Dec-2010 at 06:17 PM.

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Futaura 
Re: Is AmigaOS4.x datatypes using AltiVec?
Posted on 1-Dec-2010 19:16:57
#14 ]
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Joined: 10-May-2004
Posts: 253
From: UK

@Tuxedo

Quote:
LoView was written in Holywood so it uses DataTypes to load images...
On my machine under MOS it works about 30/40% faster loading images than on OS4...
(About 1.4 secs loading 10Mpx images on MOS and about 1.9 under OS41.2)
IMHO the only real differency was the DataTypes, and since under MOS I get so much difference and you say that WarpJPEG was a bit faster than MOS supplied DT why the current OS4 WarpJPEG(that I tryed) have almost the same speed than the standard OS4 DT?

Because I wrote the standard OS4 DT? Therefore there isn't a lot of difference speed-wise between the OS4 WarpJPEG and the standard OS4 DT (although the very latest standard OS4 DT may well be slower, since others have been modifying it since I originally wrote it).

I asked if you have tried the MOS WarpJPEG since if that is just as fast or faster than the MOS supplied JPEG DT, then clearly it is not AltiVec in the datatypes themselves that is making JPEGs load faster on MOS than on OS4.

Quote:
But...you have tryed on an AltiVec machine under MOS or not?

I only have MOS on my BPPC system, so no.

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Kicko 
Re: Is AmigaOS4.x datatypes using AltiVec?
Posted on 1-Dec-2010 19:56:55
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 19-Jun-2004
Posts: 5009
From: Sweden

@Tuxedo

have you tried them on different machines ? maybe the mos machine is faster ?

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Tuxedo 
Re: Is AmigaOS4.x datatypes using AltiVec?
Posted on 1-Dec-2010 20:57:25
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2003
Posts: 2341
From: Perugia, ITALY

@Kicko

no...
all on my Peg2 with G4@866...

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Tuxedo 
Re: Is AmigaOS4.x datatypes using AltiVec?
Posted on 1-Dec-2010 23:31:59
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2003
Posts: 2341
From: Perugia, ITALY

@Futaura

I've tryed(I hope in the correct way) the WarpJPEG datatype under mos...
The results:

MOS DT:

About 1,35 secs to load jpegs

WarpJPEG DT:

About 1,55 to load jpegs

So...
Same DT(how much same?) really different speeds on different OS...

With that results seems that AltiVec opt give about 13% speed increase under mos but nothing more...

What do you think about that?


Thank you!

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Futaura 
Re: Is AmigaOS4.x datatypes using AltiVec?
Posted on 3-Dec-2010 21:32:47
#18 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 10-May-2004
Posts: 253
From: UK

@Tuxedo

Well, it's hard to draw any concrete conclusions from comparisons, since WarpJPEG is compiled using GCC for the OS4, and VBCC for MOS version (other than the compiler used, there is virtually no difference between the MOS and OS4 WarpDTs - they are compiled from the same source files). However, my tests show that WarpJPEG is faster on MOS than the standard DT, but then again I'm talking about the classic BPPC version. Has it been confirmed that the jpeg.datatype on MOS actually uses AltiVec or not?

Going back to the OS3.x days, it was always pretty clear that the CGX picture.datatype was much faster at loading images than the Picasso96 and OS3.5/3.9 picture.datatype. AFAIK, the OS4 picture.datatype uses a similar implementation to the OS3.9 picture.datatype. If you wanted images to load faster you used the CGX picture.datatype, whilst others were prepared to sacrifice speed for superior image quality due to the dithering that the OS3.5+ picture.datatype offered for 15/16-bit screens. Of course, on OS4 it is not so much of an issue is the difference in speed is very small, whereas on OS3.x the difference was maybe 5-10 seconds slower for large images.

I'm sure picture.datatype is where most of the speed difference lies between MOS and OS4, although as others have said, other OS components could also be a factor.

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Tuxedo 
Re: Is AmigaOS4.x datatypes using AltiVec?
Posted on 3-Dec-2010 22:18:12
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2003
Posts: 2341
From: Perugia, ITALY

@Futaura

Well...

- yes, MOS datatypes was using AltiVec(was written by kiero the guy behind ShowGirls)
- for the picture.datatype speed question only an OS4 dev can tell us...

However thank you a lot for your replys in that topic..

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Severin 
Re: Is AmigaOS4.x datatypes using AltiVec?
Posted on 14-Dec-2010 14:21:38
#20 ]
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Joined: 18-Aug-2003
Posts: 2740
From: Gloucestershire UK

@Tuxedo

You will also have to consider that none of the current OS4 hardware has a G4 so Altivec support isn't going to happen, all the machines with G4's are over 5 years old now, if it doesn't support Altivec now it never will unless some 3rd party coder does a hack.

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