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PosterThread
damocles 
AROS68K Pic
Posted on 31-Dec-2010 16:40:46
#1 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1594
From: Unknown

A update on Toni and Jason's work.

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www.arixfoundation.com
Unless otherwise noted, I only speak for myself.

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Channel_Z 
Re: AROS68K Pic
Posted on 31-Dec-2010 18:42:51
#2 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2009
Posts: 299
From: Unknown

@damocles

Great! In a not too distant future, both AmigaOS and Commodore's kickstart ROM:s will be obsolete for Amiga Classic users.

I find it absolutely lovely that we finally get a opensource and free OS for our classic Amiga computers, just like the Atari crowd have had their FreeMINT for almost two decades!

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kamelito 
Re: AROS68K Pic
Posted on 31-Dec-2010 22:50:11
#3 ]
Member
Joined: 26-Jul-2004
Posts: 76
From: Unknown

@Channel_Z

They even have coldfire
http://acp.atari.org/news.html

Kamel

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pavlor 
Re: AROS68K Pic
Posted on 31-Dec-2010 22:53:01
#4 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 4713
From: Unknown

@kamelito

Quote:
They even have coldfire


We even have PowerPC...
http://www.acube-systems.biz/index.php?page=hardware&pid=5

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kamelito 
Re: AROS68K Pic
Posted on 31-Dec-2010 23:19:28
#5 ]
Member
Joined: 26-Jul-2004
Posts: 76
From: Unknown

@pavlor

I meant ColdFire project on Amiga never saw the light of the day, everybody know about Amiga PPC.

Kamel

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Leo 
Re: AROS68K Pic
Posted on 1-Jan-2011 14:01:35
#6 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1430
From: Unknown

Nice progress ! :)

Any idea when/if original Workbench disks will work with AROS ? With the latest versions it still doesn't work.

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-Sam- 
Re: AROS68K Pic
Posted on 1-Jan-2011 14:11:24
#7 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2003
Posts: 2750
From: Yorkshire Dales, United Knigdom

@kamelito

Quote:
They even have coldfire


Not the prettiest OS in the world is it? Also it doesn't look like it is actually out yet.

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-Sam- 
Re: AROS68K Pic
Posted on 1-Jan-2011 14:14:38
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2003
Posts: 2750
From: Yorkshire Dales, United Knigdom

@kamelito

Quote:
I meant ColdFire project on Amiga never saw the light of the day,


I thought that was mainly because the ColdFire doesn't really work as an accelerator as it only achieved 040 equivalent speeds thereby making it pointless.

Perhaps on the much slower ST (which never even got PPC) there may be some point to it though.

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radical 
Re: AROS68K Pic
Posted on 1-Jan-2011 17:04:13
#9 ]
Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2010
Posts: 40
From: Unknown

@Leo
Original workbench disks won't function fully now because AROS lacks a workbench program in the kickstart ROM image so AmigaDOS C: loadwb can't load it. The AROS developers need someone to write a smaller workbench program than wanderer that can be put into the kickstart ROM image. It should only use libraries available from kickstart 3.1, not MUI, (and be tested with workbench 1.3 disks for backwards compatibility)

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damocles 
Re: AROS68K Pic
Posted on 1-Jan-2011 17:41:45
#10 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1594
From: Unknown

@radical

Quote:
Original workbench disks won't function fully now because AROS lacks a workbench program in the kickstart ROM image so AmigaDOS C: loadwb can't load it. The AROS developers need someone to write a smaller workbench program than wanderer that can be put into the kickstart ROM image. It should only use libraries available from kickstart 3.1, not MUI, (and be tested with workbench 1.3 disks for backwards compatibility)


Is there a real world need for it?

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Lou 
Re: AROS68K Pic
Posted on 1-Jan-2011 18:07:19
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 3736
From: Rhode Island

Games that load directly from disk won't need Workbench.

Also, what's wrong with having Workbench on HDD? That's why the 4000 KS had SCSI or IDE drivers in the ROM.

The whole point of this is to customize KS to 'our' needs, is it not? For many modules, it may make more sense to have then load from HHD or other (easily updateable) [external] media rather than deal with the SetPatch kludge.

Last edited by Lou on 01-Jan-2011 at 06:08 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 01-Jan-2011 at 06:07 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: AROS68K Pic
Posted on 1-Jan-2011 18:29:00
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 9428
From: Norway

@kamelito

I believe the same motherboard can be used as ColdFire AROS computer (Amiga clone), maybe not AGA but ECS/OCS I believe is possible.

FPGA Cyclone III ship should be able to hold some Amiga1200 / 500 motherboard logic, if reconfigured.

Some thing like this whit a PowerPC will be even cooler, chipset support provided by the hardware and JIT emulation taking care of the 680x0 CPU under AmigaOS4, fast CPU for new applications, and chipset support for legacy, a prefect compromise.

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Channel_Z 
Re: AROS68K Pic
Posted on 1-Jan-2011 18:56:54
#13 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2009
Posts: 299
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:
We even have PowerPC...


That is off-topic. This thread is about 68k, and the 68k family includes Coldfire. It does not include PPC.

@sam

Quote:
Not the prettiest OS in the world is it? Also it doesn't look like it is actually out yet.


What are you talking about? AROS nightly builds can be downloaded by anyone, and new versions are released each day, unless the build failed for some reason that day. AROS for 68k Amigas has been downloadable for several months, new versions available pretty much every day.

Quote:
I thought that was mainly because the ColdFire doesn't really work as an accelerator as it only achieved 040 equivalent speeds thereby making it pointless.


This is of course dependent on clock speed. A 500MHz Coldfire performs roughly the same as a 68060 at 50MHz, because of all the exceptions thrown, since so many instructions are not there anymore in the Coldfire core.
Personally, I think that the Natamis new 68k CPU series is much more suitable for AmigaOS or AROS-68k, and has potential of much higher end user performance than Coldfire.

The Atari situation is quite different, and the Atari Firebee will probably work out great.

Quote:
Is there a real world need for it?


I think so. Why not be totally compatible and capable of replacing Commodore ROM:s 100%?

@NutsAboutAmiga
Natami will do it better. Just wait and see :)

Last edited by Channel_Z on 01-Jan-2011 at 06:59 PM.

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Leo 
Re: AROS68K Pic
Posted on 1-Jan-2011 19:09:55
#14 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1430
From: Unknown

@radical: I see. I thought the Workbench was only disk-based... at least up to WB 1.x since I know they put workbench.library into ROM in earlier versions.

Last edited by Leo on 01-Jan-2011 at 07:24 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: AROS68K Pic
Posted on 1-Jan-2011 19:13:15
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 4713
From: Unknown

@Channel_Z

Quote:
That is off-topic. This thread is about 68k, and the 68k family includes Coldfire. It does not include PPC.


Sorry.

Quote:
This is of course dependent on clock speed. A 500MHz Coldfire performs roughly the same as a 68060 at 50MHz, because of all the exceptions thrown, since so many instructions are not there anymore in the Coldfire core.


Is there any source for such statement? (benchmarks etc.)

Comparison (speed, compatibility) between FireBee and other Atari models could be interesting - I hope it will be released soon.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: AROS68K Pic
Posted on 1-Jan-2011 19:13:36
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 9428
From: Norway

@Leo

Lots of libraries and devices are stored in kickstart, I believe if you type resident you can see the list of preloaded libraries. (should be the same for morphos)

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Channel_Z 
Re: AROS68K Pic
Posted on 1-Jan-2011 19:52:51
#17 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2009
Posts: 299
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:
Is there any source for such statement? (benchmarks etc.)


The Natami Team did evaluate ColdFire as a possible solution for the Natami (they recieved free devkits), and chose to go with a custom-made new 68k architecture instead. I think it was from their tests I got that information. Elbox have tested it too (remember the Dragon project?) and decided the Amiga performance was too bad for it to be worthwile.

I will look for the sources, and post them here if I find them.

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deadwood 
Re: AROS68K Pic
Posted on 1-Jan-2011 22:16:22
#18 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Nov-2008
Posts: 179
From: Unknown

Video of current amiga-m68k build in action:

http://www.mediafire.com/?7bwn9ad3bs4ec9a

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"There is no such thing as software for free. If it is not the user who covers the cost of software creation with money, it is the developer who covers this cost with his own free time."

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Arko 
Re: AROS68K Pic
Posted on 1-Jan-2011 23:02:36
#19 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Jan-2007
Posts: 1989
From: Unknown

@Channel_Z

Quote:

Channel_Z wrote:
@pavlor

Quote:
We even have PowerPC...


That is off-topic. This thread is about 68k, and the 68k family includes Coldfire. It does not include PPC.


Then Coldfire is OT like PPC . The Coldfire is not 68k compatible, even if the marketing department of Freescale tells something else.

There are some commands ( I didn't remember the exact command ) that behaves differently on a real 68k and a Coldfire. A non resistant command might be emulated via an exception handler, but not if the command exists but doesn't behaves like the original one.

That's the secret why every attempt to use a Coldfire chips will fail.

If someone wnats to use a Coldfire MCU he has nothing more like a CPU with the same byte ordering, 68k compatibility could only be guaranteed via an emulator (yes I know JIT, thats just an emulation technology) like it is done on AOS4 or MOS.

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

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Arko 
Re: AROS68K Pic
Posted on 1-Jan-2011 23:08:28
#20 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Jan-2007
Posts: 1989
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:



Quote:
This is of course dependent on clock speed. A 500MHz Coldfire performs roughly the same as a 68060 at 50MHz, because of all the exceptions thrown, since so many instructions are not there anymore in the Coldfire core.


Is there any source for such statement? (benchmarks etc.)


Imr that was one of the thing that came out after the first Dragon prototypes where shown.

The Dragon might have booted with a patched AmigaOS but to guarantee 68k compatibility with AOS3 software they would have needed an 68k emulator. So it doesn't matter if someone builds a Amiga accelerator with Coldfire or with PPC, both will not run 68k programs without emulation.

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

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