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      /  Any news on the gallium3d for OS4?
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kas1e 
Re: Any news on the gallium3d for OS4?
Posted on 5-May-2011 10:56:10
#121 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3549
From: Russia

@Clebin
OpenAmiga its just some 3d party apps which can be (and can be not) included to OS4 distro. But sources are open for everyone, and you can just sign in to have access to the all the sources of the OpenAmiga. You can use it as you wish with all that usuall GPL stuff. but because Reaction usage almost all the time are must-to-have, then all the sources can be interested only for learning purposes imho, some of them will be pretty hard to port to AROS or to Morphos, just because of Reaction, and because almost all the projects use AOS4 apis (there or there) which do not present on aros or morphos at all.

So, one call was about "hey ppls, there is openamiga site exits since ages, if you want to help, you always can join to some of the projects here!" . I.e. its not about "hyperion" at all there (just hyperion can include some of the programms to the OS if they will want, like for example DiskImagedevice stuff already included to the os, or Filer (i hope) will be included as well). I.e. it mostly was just some "motivation" call in term of openamiga , and nothing new was here.

Second call about "let's help hyperion to develop the os" its fully related to Hyperion, with all that close-source stuff, NDA and so on : so there you can help impove OS itself, not by 3d party programms, but for example to make fixes there and there, add new functionality , discuss in mailing lists of os4 developers that and that, and make decissions to go this or this route. I am of course not sure that there will be any normal "payment" for, its mostly will be just like any other project, just closed from the other eyes.

Usually of course, when someone works good with 3d party project, he can have a contact with aos4-core developer, and while one works on 3d party project, os4 core dev will fix bugs there and there to make it all works (as for example we have with muiowb port, Thore was friendly enough with help about it).

In general, i personally of course in interest to have access to aos4 source code as well, but only because when i will found bug somethere, i can check the code, and trying to understand if it bug in the os or not, and then just write a bug-report to os4-core devs to fix it.

In other words : openamiga call - its for everyone, and all is free. hyperion call - its just driving into os4-core-deep with all the stuff. But i am sure no one will force anyone to limit a freedom :)

Quote:

Wouldn't these require access to some closed source-code?


Not necessary, but of course will be better when you have access to both. But usually it going this route : someone write some programm, and if programm are important enough and OS have bugs or some missed features in that terms, then core devs can add the stuff for you (of course, its a bit hard to communicate with some of them, but with some of them pretty easy to communicate).

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Anonymous 
Re: Any news on the gallium3d for OS4?
Posted on 5-May-2011 14:39:49
# ]

0
0

@samo79 @kas1e

It's good to hear there's a line drawn between OpenAmiga and the other call to arms, but I still have my concerns. You both say it's possible to do those projects without the OS 4 source-code, but I can imagine it being a pretty hacky solution. As you say, it would be better if you had those sources.

OpenAmiga is endorsed by Hyperion on their blog and in news-items, but most of the projects would benefit from access to OS4 sources too.

With that endorsement I can't imagine the distinction between OpenAmiga and closed-source work will be clear for long. If someone does a good job on something, will they find themselves given access to code to complete it in a more elegant way?

If so, then OpenAmiga turns into a recruiting tool to get free work on closed-source code. When they're attached to their pet project, then comes the dilemma. They want to finish their work and get it included in OS 4, but Hyperion don't have the resources to help. There's also the lure of the famous OS4 source-code.

But what price do you pay? You lose your freedom to work on anything similar, or you get the same suspicion and mistrust that Dave Haynie raised, whatever happens in the future. It's not a conspiracy, just what I see as the inevitable conclusion. So go please into OpenAmiga with your eyes open. One day you might want to do something with AROS and I'd hate that a talented developer had signed away their right to do so.

Chris

 
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AmigaBlitter 
Re: Any news on the gallium3d for OS4?
Posted on 5-May-2011 19:27:42
#123 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3512
From: Unknown

@rogue

i know we are boring people...

can you, please, tell us about ongoing development?

thank you


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ChrisH 
Re: Any news on the gallium3d for OS4?
Posted on 5-May-2011 23:15:39
#124 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

@AmigaBlitter
It was only 1 month ago they gave us The State of OpenGL on AmigaOS. I really don't think we can expect monthly updates on development of *any* paid-for OS.

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Nibunnoichi 
Re: Any news on the gallium3d for OS4?
Posted on 6-May-2011 7:35:15
#125 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 18-Nov-2004
Posts: 969
From: Roma + Lecco, Italia

@clebin

I don't know if you've already done it, but if you read OA.org's "about" page and "licences" page you could have a clearer vision of the whole project, which exists since years and the projects are - at least until now - considered "contributions".
The recommended licence is MPL (Mozilla) which is an open source licence that doesn't forbid commercial usage and - if i'm not mistaken - is similar to APL and doesn't prohibit you working on other projects.
For example "Filer" has various betatesters as contributors (and i think Vicente Gimeno is an OS4 developer too, but i'm not sure about it).

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Rose 
Re: Any news on the gallium3d for OS4?
Posted on 6-May-2011 8:24:54
#126 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 982
From: Unknown

@Nibunnoichi

Quote:
The recommended licence is MPL (Mozilla) which is an open source licence that doesn't forbid commercial usage and - if i'm not mistaken - is similar to APL and doesn't prohibit you working on other projects.


None of opensource licenses prohibits commerical use. MPL just seems to fit the purpose since it doesn't have as strict rules about sharing sources as others...

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realize 
Re: Any news on the gallium3d for OS4?
Posted on 6-May-2011 23:28:59
#127 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2003
Posts: 1797
From: nyc

@kas1e

haha you my friend are way to vocal for their liking. You already called them out on time tables and releasing things after years. They do not like that. Hyperion reminds me of the us government.. very similar. If you want to be a part of it you better keep your mouth shut and do what they tell u!

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Rob 
Re: Any news on the gallium3d for OS4?
Posted on 7-May-2011 0:26:33
#128 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales

@realize

Most people who criticise Hyperion seem to do so simply for the sake of it. I think Hyperion can live with criticism from someone who buys their product and adds value to it by porting games and applications.

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wawa 
Re: Any news on the gallium3d for OS4?
Posted on 7-May-2011 1:11:44
#129 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@Rob

i sincerely hope they can live with it. as they have told us numerous times.

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realize 
Re: Any news on the gallium3d for OS4?
Posted on 7-May-2011 1:18:16
#130 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2003
Posts: 1797
From: nyc

@Rob

Quote:
Most people who criticise Hyperion seem to do so simply for the sake of it.


Conversely, many people criticize them justifiably... for many reasons. I think the percentage of people who post against them to strictly "troll" is maybe less than 5% the rest are true fed up amigans.

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pavlor 
Re: Any news on the gallium3d for OS4?
Posted on 7-May-2011 7:01:37
#131 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9578
From: Unknown

@realize

Quote:
the rest are true fed up amigans.


Like you.

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amitv 
Re: Any news on the gallium3d for OS4?
Posted on 17-May-2011 19:52:06
#132 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Oct-2006
Posts: 346
From: Unknown

Any news?

demo? Alpha, Beta?




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ssolie 
Re: Any news on the gallium3d for OS4?
Posted on 17-May-2011 23:01:04
#133 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2755
From: Alberta, Canada

@amitv
News will be posted on Hyperion's Blog. You can sign up for RSS notifications as well.

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tonyw 
Re: Any news on the gallium3d for OS4?
Posted on 17-May-2011 23:25:11
#134 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3240
From: Sydney (of course)

You don't need access to the OS source code to write applications, in fact you must not write applications using any knowledge of the inner workings of the OS.

The OS has a public API that specifies and guarantees the interface to the user. Any programmer must use that API and only that API. The inner workings of the OS are liable to change at any time without notice but the API will remain the same.

We have run into many problems over the years where programmers have assumed that some undocumented behaviour will remain, but it has been changed or removed, leaving their programme not working - then they blame us.

If you are writing for OS4, you need only the SDK - any more knowledge is dangerous. All us devs are only allowed to use the normal API as specified in the SDK.


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tony

Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: Any news on the gallium3d for OS4?
Posted on 18-May-2011 7:56:15
#135 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3512
From: Unknown

@ssolie

Nice. Just want to ask you about these works on graphics subsystem. Could other frameworks (cairo, antigrain...) benefits from the hardware acceleration?
Would be possible to interact with WB windows to modify directly their visuals?


Thank you

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samo79 
Re: Any news on the gallium3d for OS4?
Posted on 18-May-2011 9:31:06
#136 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 13-Feb-2003
Posts: 3505
From: Italy, Perugia

@ssolie

Thanks a lot, i like the new style to comunicate more often with the community, keep it up !

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amitv 
Re: Any news on the gallium3d for OS4?
Posted on 18-Mar-2012 20:29:44
#137 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Oct-2006
Posts: 346
From: Unknown

Any news?

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kas1e 
Re: Any news on the gallium3d for OS4?
Posted on 18-Mar-2012 20:44:39
#138 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3549
From: Russia

@amitv
haha :) 1 year since starting of thread passed already. I bet for 1 or 2 more :)

@all
1,5 year since amiwest 2010. . Now , show me again those ones who say to me that i too much pessimist, talks negativity and do not know how fast everything will be done, when i say "2 year in good case, 3 and more in worse one". Reality still here :)

So, who want a bet for 1 year more ?:)

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Hyperionmp 
Re: Any news on the gallium3d for OS4?
Posted on 18-Mar-2012 21:41:01
#139 ]
Hyperion
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 502
From: Unknown

@realize

No offense, but what exactly has been your contribution to the Amiga Community these past, say, 5 years?

It is a genuine question considering you feel entitled to criticize our company's policies (which we do not mind considering the source).

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and the right to voice it.

The extent to which it will be taken into account by us depends however entirely on the extent of the "realizations" of the person voicing his or her opinion.


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pavlor 
Re: Any news on the gallium3d for OS4?
Posted on 18-Mar-2012 21:47:35
#140 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9578
From: Unknown

@Hyperionmp

Last post of realize in this thread is nearly 1 year old...

Since then he purchased OS4.1 for his Pegasos II.


So question remains: When will be OS4.2 with Gallium 3D released?





I know, answer is when it is done.

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