Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
5620 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
Home
Features
News
Forums
Classifieds
Links
Downloads
Extras
OS4 Zone
IRC Network
AmigaWorld Radio
Newsfeed
Top Members
Amiga Dealers
Information
About Us
FAQs
Advertise
Polls
Terms of Service
Search

IRC Channel
Server: irc.amigaworld.net
Channel: #Amigaworld
Channel Policy and Guidelines

(Uses JAVA Applet and Port 1024)
Visit the Chatroom Website

Who's Online
 70 guest(s) on-line.
 3 member(s) on-line.


 nbache,  Overflow,  OneTimer1

You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 nbache:  3 secs ago
 Overflow:  49 secs ago
 OneTimer1:  1 min ago
 K-L:  8 mins ago
 g01df1sh:  11 mins ago
 NutsAboutAmiga:  17 mins ago
 Srtest:  27 mins ago
 Barret:  43 mins ago
 simplex:  48 mins ago
 Signman:  57 mins ago

/  Forum Index
   /  Classic Amiga Hardware
      /  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Register To Post

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 Next Page )
PosterThread
eXec 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 17-Apr-2011 18:09:55
#261 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2004
Posts: 954
From: Burkina Faso

@Spectre660

Quote:

Spectre660 wrote:
@eXec


Another Amiga reality is that most of the legacy software for Audio & Video was done to support a custom piece of hardware built by the same company specifically for the Amiga or the Amiga custom chipset.

Quote:

eXec wrote:
@Spectre660

I want to use my Amiga for it...bit I can`t even use it to animate in
poor Flash...



Even today? In 2011? Name me one custom Amiga audio hardware / software bundle
capable of on the fly recording 32 tracks with real time monitoring and mixing with
min 8 vst/rtas/tdm plugin slots per channel and I will buy it this second.

Not to mention that it should support 5.1 mixing and work inside 24bit 48000kHz

Last edited by eXec on 17-Apr-2011 at 06:11 PM.

_________________
____
...administration is for serious people only....

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Tomppeli 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 17-Apr-2011 18:23:05
#262 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jun-2004
Posts: 1584
From: Home land of Santa, sauna, sisu and salmiakki

@hazydave

Thanks, telling stories from your Commodore era and after !

Last edited by Tomppeli on 17-Apr-2011 at 10:49 PM.

_________________
Rock lobster bit me, so excuse me. If you'll plan to deal with me, be serious !
X1000 + AmigaOS4.1 FE. Be authentic.
"Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system." -Seymour Cray

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
damocles 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 17-Apr-2011 18:54:43
#263 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

@TrevorDick

(I could have sworn I replied to this before but I don't see the post and I don't see a link for it on my personal info page so...)

Quote:
For everyone who is thinking that the Power architecture is a dead end after PA-Semi. Take a peek at the Freescale QorIQ Processing Platforms by Family.


Questions for you, what generation are those PPC cores? G2?

Are those CPUs you listed SoCs? If so, what GPU is onboard?

When I see these types of CPUs, I get that they are developed for communication equiptment, but I am wonder as far as desktop CPUs, what makes them even remotely competitive with current ARM series or the future ARM 15s?

_________________
Dammy

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Arix-OS/414578091930728
Unless otherwise noted, I only speak for myself.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Rob 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 17-Apr-2011 19:15:03
#264 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5565
From: S.Wales

@damocles

Quote:
Questions for you, what generation are those PPC cores? G2?


The cores are based on E500 so that's G3 isn't it.

Quote:
Are those CPUs you listed SoCs? If so, what GPU is onboard?


Having a GPU isn't a requirement of an SOC. I think Freescale's only PPC SOC with video output is the 8610.

Quote:
When I see these types of CPUs, I get that they are developed for communication equiptment, but I am wonder as far as desktop CPUs, what makes them even remotely competitive with current ARM series or the future ARM 15s?


Are there any ARM chips with PCI/PCIe?

Last edited by Rob on 17-Apr-2011 at 07:15 PM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 17-Apr-2011 19:43:48
#265 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8416
From: Unknown

@Rob

Quote:
PPC SOC with video output is the 8610


5121e also has video output.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
woon 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 17-Apr-2011 20:11:10
#266 ]
Member
Joined: 2-Jan-2005
Posts: 31
From: Nord de la France

@damocles

post 207

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
number6 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 17-Apr-2011 20:16:15
#267 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9802
From: In the village

@thread

Off-topic, although the sale kind of spawned this thread:

Quote:
Haynie's Garage: Nyx "AAA" Prototype


Quote:
Ended: Apr 17, 201112:12:00 PDT
Winning bid: US $2,525.25 [ 30 bids ]


#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
hazydave 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 17-Apr-2011 20:19:23
#268 ]
Member
Joined: 8-Sep-2004
Posts: 65
From: Unknown

Quote:

TrevorDick wrote:
For everyone who is thinking that the Power architecture is a dead end after PA-Semi. Take a peek at the Freescale QorIQ Processing Platforms by Family.


I'm not sure anyone said it was dead. I said it was dead on the desktop, which it true. If you want to build a router or network switch, as you have illustrated, Freescale has a bunch of choices. In fact, that's the kind of CPU that's been showing up in other boards for PowerPC-based AmigaOS. These go into routers at or maybe a step above what you typically find on the shelf at MicroCenter, and go up from there. Cisco in particular has been very PowerPC centered for a long time. Most of the desktop PPCs, back in the day, eventually wound up in some switch or router -- that's the only way IBM and Motorola could justify the cost of development.

Like the idea of AmigaOS on a PS3 or X-Box 360, these could definitely be made to run AmigaOS. Of course, at present, SMP is useless, but maybe someone will do something about that for the X1000, who knows? And if you put one of these in a personal computer and sold it for the price of a PS3 or X-Box or low-end desktop PC, I'd think it was an ok solution, though in truth, all of other other devices offer more performance. But maybe this is enough.

The problem I've had is seeing this class of processor (and the PA-Semi chip is better, but not all that much better) in systems selling for $1000 or more. If you know what you're getting and want to spend that, fine.

At best, these are going to provide PowerPC AmigaOS systems for people who really, really want them. Anyone else is probably going to run UAE on a PC... which is going to be faster on any classic 68K Amiga software anyway. If it's just 68K software you want, older Amigas or maybe the Natami seem more reasonable options. This suggests that any AmigaOS PPC system purchase is based entirely on what you want to do: write new software or run existing PPC software, maybe. Otherwise, I don't see it. Too much for too little, so far.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Stephen_Robinson 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 17-Apr-2011 20:42:36
#269 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Apr-2005
Posts: 1991
From: UK

@pavlor

And of course you can't use iTunes in the development of nuclear weapons.

http://www.gearlive.com/news/article/q209-apple-use-of-itunes-to-produce-nuclear-weapons-not-allowed/

I've always thought of AmigaOS4.1 and MorphOS as little niche OSs bits 'o fun, there can't be many people who still think we'll sweep Linux, MacOS. Atari TOS and Windows aside, are there?

_________________
Rage quited 29th May 2011

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 17-Apr-2011 21:07:49
#270 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8416
From: Unknown

@hazydave

Quote:
If it's just 68K software you want, older Amigas or maybe the Natami seem more reasonable options


That depends on the price of Natami. OS-friendly 68k applications will run probably faster emulated on 440EP (SAM) than on "68050" of Natami. I (really) hope price of Natami will be lower than price of SAM440ep-flex.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Arko 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 17-Apr-2011 21:11:59
#271 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Jan-2007
Posts: 1989
From: Unknown

@KingKong

Quote:

KingKong wrote:


Money is no issue if the development of AmigaOS is state-funded from Germany or the EU.


Before they coul fund AOS4 they have to buy it first, and you might know, the parts that existed in AOS3 still belongs to Amiga Inc. and the part that is new in AOS4 belongs to Hyperion. Taking something Open Sourde might be easier.

Quote:

I hardly can think of anything more unsecure than MS.


I don't like Windows, but it has passed some security tests that where more expensive than the whole AOS4 development. There is just one reason why no one hacks AmigaOS, it's because there are less machines online, than an average bot net would need for work.

Last edited by Arko on 17-Apr-2011 at 09:32 PM.

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
eXec 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 17-Apr-2011 21:44:49
#272 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2004
Posts: 954
From: Burkina Faso

@hazydave

Once again!

Among all those posts again , perfect answer with point and facts.


_________________
____
...administration is for serious people only....

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
AmiDelf2 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 17-Apr-2011 21:56:56
#273 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 9-Aug-2005
Posts: 337
From: Norway, Oslo

@hazydave

Do you know that the Alternative AmigaOS which is MorphOS can be installed on PowerMac G4, MacMini G4 and even eMac G4? Also in development for PowerBook G4. MorphOS is quite good mr Haynie. MUI4 is for MorphOS, AmIRC for PPC is for MorphOS, OWB is for MorphOS, Blender, MPlayer, Titler, TvPaint, Deluxe Paint, Digi Booster PRO is all working on MorphOS. You can play 720p HD movies with MacMini G4 and MorphOS! AmiTradeCenter, YAM, Showgirls, Quake I, Quake II, Quake III, WipeOut 2097, Myst, Payback is all games working too. MorphOS is the alternative AmigaOS and is something you should look at and it doesnt cost a fortune to buy a secondhand PowerPC MAC...

_________________
Regards,
Michal, Amiga user since 1988
amitopia@gmail.com

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 17-Apr-2011 22:00:32
#274 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8416
From: Unknown

@AmiDelf2

Quote:
Deluxe Paint ... is all working on MorphOS


Really?

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
AmiDelf2 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 17-Apr-2011 22:03:27
#275 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 9-Aug-2005
Posts: 337
From: Norway, Oslo

@pavlor

Yes. Deluxe Paint 5 works on my MorphOS 2.7 atleast

_________________
Regards,
Michal, Amiga user since 1988
amitopia@gmail.com

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 17-Apr-2011 22:11:15
#276 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8416
From: Unknown

@AmiDelf2

Quote:
Yes. Deluxe Paint 5 works on my MorphOS 2.7 atleast


Even filled objects (eg. rectangles), brushes etc.?

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
damocles 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 17-Apr-2011 22:11:28
#277 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

@Rob

Quote:
The cores are based on E500 so that's G3 isn't it.


You tell me, that is why I was asking. I really haven't been keeping up since 603/604 days. Too many model numbers to keep up with since those days. ;)

Quote:
Are there any ARM chips with PCI/PCIe?


Looks like the upcoming Freescale i.mx6 does. I would be shocked to find out that is the only ARM SoC to have PCI express.

_________________
Dammy

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Arix-OS/414578091930728
Unless otherwise noted, I only speak for myself.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
hotrod 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 17-Apr-2011 22:25:40
#278 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 2758
From: Stockholm, Sweden

@pavlor

DP5 works in AOS 4.1 too or have I missed something?

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 17-Apr-2011 22:28:56
#279 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8416
From: Unknown

@hotrod

Quote:
DP5 works in AOS 4.1 too or have I missed something?


I asked only because DPaint 5 has some problems with RTG screens on my WinUAE box. However, TVPaint can substitute it in most cases.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
TrevorDick 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 17-Apr-2011 22:37:05
#280 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2004
Posts: 2635
From: Wellington

@hazydave

Nice talking to you. In the past few months I've had the privilege of talking with Carl Sassenrath (and drinking some of his excellent wine) and Dale Luck, two of the original Amiga development team at AmiWest 2010 and now you, even if it is only via this forum.

You wrote:-

Quote:
Anyone else is probably going to run UAE on a PC... which is going to be faster on any classic 68K Amiga software anyway.


I am a great advocate and (financial) supporter of "Amiga Forever" and have my system pre-configured with both AmiKit and AmigaSys workbench distros. But running AmigaOS under Windows or Linux just doesn't really feel like a real Amiga. The extra overhead of Windows or Linux detracts from the performance of the AmigaOS. The "next gen"PowerPC systems from Eyetech, ACube and even Genesi are much more Amiga like. Fast, simple and elegant.

Following their settlement agreement with Amiga Inc, Hyperion Entertainment now control the development and future of the AmigaOS and at the moment this is tied to PPC hardware. In collaboration with AmigaKit they are about to release the fully updated version of AmigaOS4 for Classic Amigas equipped with Phase5 PPC accelerators. As a Beta Tester I can confirm this is a nice product for the Classic Amiga enthusiasts who is lucky enough to own a Phase5 PPC accelerator card.

However, for people who want low cost, the Minimig (from ACube) also offers a nice Classic experience. However, for the ultimate Classic fix there is nothing better that using the original Amiga hardware, my personal favourite is the A2000 (my first Amiga) followed closely by my A4000T.

You also wrote:-

Quote:
This suggests that any AmigaOS PPC system purchase is based entirely on what you want to do: write new software or run existing PPC software, maybe.


That is exactly right. Not everyone want to march to the same drum or follow the herd. Personally I am not particularly interested in a "me too" x86 box. If it was not for the originality of Jay, and his design team there would be no Amiga and I would be posting this from my Windows PC. (Actually, hands up, I'm away from my A1 & Sam440 at the moment and am posting from my Asus netbook running Ubuntu 10.10 )

The economics of developing a PowerPC desktop system is certainly problematic but not impossible as ACube and (hopefully) A-EON have proved. AmigaOS is already fast on single core 667 & 800Mhz PowerPC CPUs. The new higher speed, multi-core PPC CPUs promise even more performance especially when SMP is finally implemented in the AmigaOS. The cost of these CPUs is also coming down, although low volume manufacturing will always be costly compared to mass produced x86 boards from South East Asia and China. Again, personally I still prefer custom built Amiga specific hardware. Unfortunately, even if this was based on x86 or some other CPU the development cost for low volume production would still be high.

BTW I can still cash all my cheques (or is it checks?)

TrevorD

Edit: typo x 3

Last edited by TrevorDick on 17-Apr-2011 at 11:55 PM.
Last edited by TrevorDick on 17-Apr-2011 at 10:40 PM.
Last edited by TrevorDick on 17-Apr-2011 at 10:38 PM.

_________________
No, I don't need no reason, I'm just breezin'

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 Next Page )

[ home ][ about us ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright 2000 - 2017 Amigaworld.net.

Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle