When was AmigaDE born? In another thread we got OT about the birth of AmigaDE. My contention was AmigaDE was born at the very end of Gateway-Amiga (Feb 1999) since the "confidential" media pack describes AmigaDE plans precisely. Pavlor believes it was not until Amino-Amiga (Q1 2000) because the name may not have been given earlier.

Here are some photos for memory lane.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j233/redrumloa/ai/a-press-1.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j233/redrumloa/ai/haha1.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j233/redrumloa/ai/haha2.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j233/redrumloa/ai/a-press-2.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j233/redrumloa/ai/a-press-3.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j233/redrumloa/ai/a-press-4.jpg

_________________
Power Mac G4 "Quicksilver 2002"
800Mhz, 1.5GB RAM, Radeon 8500
MorphOS 2.7 (Registered)
$225 total spent!

@redrumloa: AmigaDE was intoduced after Amino became Amiga Inc. They made a cooperation with TAO and AmigaDE was based on their content-platform Elate/Intent.

http://www.osnews.com/story/157/Tao_Group_on_ElateOS_AmigaDE_and_More

_________________
AmigaOne X5000/40, 2.2 Ghz, 4 GB RAM, Radeon R9 280X, M-Audio Revolution 5.1, 240 GB SSD

@AP

That mention is October 2001, here is a mention from October 2000.

http://ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=0972680770&category=news&start=1&8

Here it says Jan 2000, but the name changed a couple times during the year.

http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/amigade.html

-Edit-
My contention is the late days of Gateway-Amiga (1999) they already had chosen Elate, but it was "confidential".

Last edited by redrumloa on 26-Apr-2011 at 12:18 AM.

_________________
Power Mac G4 "Quicksilver 2002"
800Mhz, 1.5GB RAM, Radeon 8500
MorphOS 2.7 (Registered)
$225 total spent!

@AP

Here is a post by Ralph Schmidt from July 1999 discussing "Amiga Objects"

Amiga Objects was what became AmigaDE, no?

Last edited by redrumloa on 26-Apr-2011 at 12:31 AM.
Last edited by redrumloa on 26-Apr-2011 at 12:30 AM.

_________________
Power Mac G4 "Quicksilver 2002"
800Mhz, 1.5GB RAM, Radeon 8500
MorphOS 2.7 (Registered)
$225 total spent!

@redrumloa

So it's not just me who's been doing some reading of history recently.

The FreeAmiga site is great for stuff like this: FreeAmiga

I've basically been reading about what happened to Amiga post 1994... the book "On the Edge: The Rise and Fall of Commodore" details pre and up-to 1994 pretty well.

Fascinating to see all the squabbling etc after 1994, and the fact Amiga Inc sat on the Amiga name for so long without really doing much (well, they still have it now!).

_________________
A1200, 68060/64MB/1.2GB/WiFi/AGAtoCRT/OS3.9 Pegasos I, G3 600Mhz/512/9200SE/80GB WinUAE, Ryzen 5 2400G/Vega11, 8GB DDR4, 256GB SSD,Win 10 Pro x64 Amiga Forever !

@redrumloa

Thank you for the information Red. This backs up my recollection as well. Bill McEwen never intended to develop the next version of AmigaOS from 3.1. In fact, his claim to ownership of 3.1 is easily contested.
Amiga Inc. failed to deliver the promised operating system to Thendic/Genesi and was found guilty of failure to perform/deliver in court.
The corporate shuffle that occurred from Washington to Delaware was merely a device to eliminate financial and legal obligations.
Bill's claim to transferring intellectual property to KMOS (and then to Amiga Inc. Delaware) is also invalid as the license that the original Amiga Inc. (Amino) obtained from Gateway covered trademarks, NOT intellectual property.

At each step of this game, Bill McEwen has attempted to gain control of the work and intellectual property of other software developers with a false claim to the ownership of the original AmigaOS.
Hyperion, in its settlement, states that it agrees that AOS3.1 is AIncs property, but this agreement is yet another device which lends legitimacy to Hyperion's contention that they have the legitimate right to develop AmigaOS.

As it would appear that the company that Hyperion has made its agreements with never truly owned AmigaOS (except as a trademark) this claim is highly suspect.

Last edited by iggy on 26-Apr-2011 at 12:54 AM.

@redrumloa

Quote:

Amiga Objects was what became AmigaDE, no?

AFAIK the whole idea seems to have started with a post of mine on the ICOA list a very long time ago, probably while it was still in it's formative stages. IIRC we were talking about different processor families and I suggested using a cross-platform object format.

Someone else also said they suggested something similar about the same time.
Dave Haynie pointed out it was actually a 20 year old idea so in either case it wasn't a terribly original idea! It was also similar to Java in some respects but in those days Java didn't have JITs so wasn't quite the same. It also ran slow as molasses.

I left the scene after that but a while later I seen people talking about "slim binaries" which sounded similar. I never heard of "Amiga Objects" so it sounds like it mutated into something else over time.

I don't think anyone used cross-platform formats back then but it has become quite popular over time. Java with a JIT is essentially the same thing, as is the Microsoft .net runtime. GPUs do something similar with shaders now though CPUs generally don't - except the Russian Elbrus chip. The designers of the Elbrus probably invented the idea in the first place.

It's not the only idea Amino/Amiga took from the JMS/ICOA, in fact as far as I can tell *ALL* of their ideas came from there. Amino/Amiga had no original ideas of their own whatsoever, except maybe the coupons.

_________________
Whyzzat?

@DBAlex

Quote:

DBAlex wrote: @redrumloa So it's not just me who's been doing some reading of history recently. The FreeAmiga site is great for stuff like this: FreeAmiga I've basically been reading about what happened to Amiga post 1994... the book "On the Edge: The Rise and Fall of Commodore" details pre and up-to 1994 pretty well. Fascinating to see all the squabbling etc after 1994, and the fact Amiga Inc sat on the Amiga name for so long without really doing much (well, they still have it now!).

Thanks, that is a great site! I'm mainly going on pure memory when I post and then I go search for links to back up my memory if challenged

I'm not perfect, but I have the history pretty well down. I go cross-eyed something seeing how some things go revisionist.

_________________
Power Mac G4 "Quicksilver 2002"
800Mhz, 1.5GB RAM, Radeon 8500
MorphOS 2.7 (Registered)
$225 total spent!

@minator

Quote:

in fact as far as I can tell *ALL* of their ideas came from there. Amino/Amiga had no original ideas of their own whatsoever, except maybe the coupons.

They gave us Kommunity and buzz words even I cannot remember now. Orgonthonal computing or some nonsense?

_________________
Power Mac G4 "Quicksilver 2002"
800Mhz, 1.5GB RAM, Radeon 8500
MorphOS 2.7 (Registered)
$225 total spent!

@Pavlor

You stated in another thread Amiga MMC was not yet canceled in 1999.
Here's an article from 1999 that states it was canceled in 1998.

As a side note it states Amino was formed in 1998. If my memory serves me right Fleecy was canned from Amiga Inc in 1999, but McBill was still involved(?). I remember a Banner on ann.lu of Fleecy's mug with a title "I'll be back" or some nonsense.

Last edited by redrumloa on 26-Apr-2011 at 02:17 AM.

_________________
Power Mac G4 "Quicksilver 2002"
800Mhz, 1.5GB RAM, Radeon 8500
MorphOS 2.7 (Registered)
$225 total spent!

@iggy

Quote:

iggy wrote: @redrumloa Thank you for the information Red. This backs up my recollection as well. Bill McEwen never intended to develop the next version of AmigaOS from 3.1. In fact, his claim to ownership of 3.1 is easily contested. Amiga Inc. failed to deliver the promised operating system to Thendic/Genesi and was found guilty of failure to perform/deliver in court. The corporate shuffle that occurred from Washington to Delaware was merely a device to eliminate financial and legal obligations. Bill's claim to transferring intellectual property to KMOS (and then to Amiga Inc. Delaware) is also invalid as the license that the original Amiga Inc. (Amino) obtained from Gateway covered trademarks, NOT intellectual property. At each step of this game, Bill McEwen has attempted to gain control of the work and intellectual property of other software developers with a false claim to the ownership of the original AmigaOS. Hyperion, in its settlement, states that it agrees that AOS3.1 is AIncs property, but this agreement is yet another device which lends legitimacy to Hyperion's contention that they have the legitimate right to develop AmigaOS. As it would appear that the company that Hyperion has made its agreements with never truly owned AmigaOS (except as a trademark) this claim is highly suspect.

Uh-oh... I just came back here (and was accepted back), you want me to wear out my welcome already?

_________________
Power Mac G4 "Quicksilver 2002"
800Mhz, 1.5GB RAM, Radeon 8500
MorphOS 2.7 (Registered)
$225 total spent!

@redrumloa

Don't sweat it red., I'll take the rap.
But you know its true.
Amino never really purchased anything.

I challenge anyone, including Bill McEwen (or Dave for that matter) to prove me wrong.

Amino was a licensee of trademarks.
That allowed them to use the name Amiga Inc.
They claimed to have massive backing, but failed to pay their bills.
When they lost their court battle with Thendic/Genesiu and they couldn't pay their bills they claimed to have transferred corporate assets to another entity, then that entity supposedly transfered them back to a different corporation (in a State all the way across the entire country) with the same name. AND then they continued to pretend to be the same company.
They could not negotiate a contract with the MorphOS team.
They tried to acquire the rights to work owned by Hyperion (and failed).
And now Bill's licensing the Amiga name (which he may not even have the right to do) to anyone who will pay him for the right.

So we get to see the final dilution of the name Amiga.

So what? I use MorphOS.

@iggy

i think that the amiga communty bash'it becuse it wasnt running on amiga ng or classics. but as i remember thare was telling pepole that in time it will suport os 4.x

but it never happend

@iggy

Quote:

But you know its true. Amino never really purchased anything.

We know for a fact that they purchased the trademarks and the domain - that's easy to verify by looking up the owner's name in public databases. They also seem to have acquired the interior (computers and stuff) of Gateway-Amiga's offices.

They claim to have licensed the patents from Gateway. We can not verify that, but it's a moot point anyway.

They (i.e. Amino) claim to have acquired the rights to the OS from Gateway. We can not verify that, but there's actually little reason to doubt that particular claim.

@redrumloa

Quote:

When was AmigaDE born? In another thread we got OT about the birth of AmigaDE. My contention was AmigaDE was born at the very end of Gateway-Amiga (Feb 1999) since the "confidential" media pack describes AmigaDE plans precisely.

The product you have in mind from the Gateway era was not AmigaDE. It changed names - aswell as other, more import characteristics - quite often, but at one point it was called AmigaOE ("Amiga Operating Environment") which might explain the confusion.

After Gateway realised there was still an active community, they started planning new products using the Amiga name. A new computer using a new CPU running a new "AmigaOS 5" was announced. And to prepare its launch, an x86 based developer system running "AmigaOS 4" (early x86 builds of OS 5) was to be released one or two years earlier.

The new computer later became the AmigaMCC, while the OS changed its name to AmigaOS 5.dev/AmigaOS 5, then Amiga Operating Environment, then AmigaSoft and last but not least Amiga Objects. It started out as a QNX based operating system, then became a Linux based operating system and finally was described as a GUI implemented in Java, running on top of Linux. We never saw any screenshots or any other evidence that even a single line of code had been written.

And to answer your question: AmigaDE was officially announced in early 2000 by the newly renamed Amino Inc.

@cgutjahr

"And to answer your question: AmigaDE was officially announced in early 2000 by the newly renamed Amino Inc."

The name of the new operating system was not defined in early 2000. It became "Amie" around march 2000 then "AmigaDE" in october 2000. BTW, the first screenshots of Amie presented at the St Louis Gateway Show (http://obligement.free.fr/articles/saintlouis2000.php) was simply a pure Elate environment.

Last edited by Daff on 26-Apr-2011 at 06:29 AM.
Last edited by Daff on 26-Apr-2011 at 06:24 AM.

Speculation time...
I think you could be right AmigaDE / Tao-elate could of been involved with Gateway, I mean it does sound like what AmigaObject was trying to be, and my guess is that they look / researched what was out their came across Tao solution and maybe where going to partner with them but then canceled the project but Bill and Fleecy thought it was a good enough plan to carry on with, plus I believe tao invested in Amiga Inc seeing the amount of interest an obscure OS like QNX got maybe it wanted the same thing.

PS: Another thing I found interesting when I came to update my AmigaMCC history page (http://www.vincentperkins.com/AmigaNG/mcc.php) was what became of the project after Gateway sold off Amiga, that it became Gateway Touch Pad, http://news.cnet.com/2100-1040-248422.html linux OS with Aol skin powered by Transmeta Cpu an internet central devices, sounds very much what gateway planned for the Amiga, so pretty please it did'nt happen in the end.

_________________
AmigaNG, YouTube, LeaveReality Studio

@redrumloa

Quote:

Amiga Objects was what became AmigaDE, no?

No. There are no sources confirming such claim. As I wrote, AmigaDE was Amino project.

I think that AmigaOE never became more than concept. However, goals of AmigaOE and AmigaDE were similar.

Quote:

was canned from Amiga Inc in 1999, but McBill was still involved(?).

Yes. ANN.lu August, 1999

Quote:

Here's an article from 1999 that states it was canceled in 1998.

No, simply wrong.

Here is Open Letter to the Amiga Community by Thomas J. Schmidt (CEO Amiga.Inc), September 17, 1999:
As you know, we announced in July that we were pursuing the development of a "multimedia convergence computer” that would serve as the next-generation Amiga desktop computer. After the change in management at Amiga, we reviewed all our product plans. To be honest, the ability for us to deliver the MCC was unrealistic.
Source

Quote:

The FreeAmiga site is great for stuff like this: FreeAmiga

Sure, it has many useful refernces. However, be careful to take this entire text as indisputable source.

@redrumloa

Looking at the pictures: I won that presentation (the ring binder) on an ebay-auction.

Last picture:

"A Huge Opportunity to Suceed"

Suceed?!

Maybe they meant a huge opportunity to suck?!

_________________
www.loriano.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk