I'm trying to decide whether it is worth me still supporting/creating the OS4.0/static build of NetSurf. Classic Amigas now have OS4.1 available, and I am no longer able to test NetSurf on OS4.0.

Please can you answer this poll if you use NetSurf for OS4 as it gives me an idea of whether the extra complexity and compilation to create release packages is worth the effort. I am not intending to rip out existing OS4.0 support from the code, this is only about creating release versions for OS4.0.

If you are using the static/graphics.library build on OS4.1 I'd like an explanation as to why this is.

Please also state if you are using the low memory version of parserutils.library which is provided as an option in the NetSurf 2.8 archive.

I'd be grateful if everybody intending to answer this poll could upgrade to v2.8 first

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@Chris_Y

does the static version use sObjs? OS4Emu doesn't support sObjs and I wouldn't mind trying out Netsurf on MorphOS

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@Chris_Y

Currently using NetSurf 2.8 graphics.library static build. Downloaded approx an hour ago. I have been using graphics.library static builds for quite some time now, because they seem to work best with my MicroA1.

I will try the Cairo version later to see how well it works for me.

I use 1024x768 32 bit screen resolution with compositing turned off.

---
redfox
MicroA1 with 750GX CPU
AmigaOS 4.1 Update 3

@Chris_Y


I use NetSurf version 2.7 68k as I use OS3.9, and it works great for me (using it now actually)

@Chris_Y

I stopped using the program when I did an update through Amiupdate with the previous version before this release and there was a missing file and it couldn't complete installation. The previous version before that just crashed every time I tried to load it so I gave up on it.

However when I get time I will give this version a try, however it is bad enough having no Flash support in the Amiga world let alone no Java support so Netsurf will not replace MUI-OWB for me I'm afraid.

Keep up the good work this could become a great browser.

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@Fairdinkem

Java isn't missing from Netsurf, but from the OS (family).

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Praise seitan.

@Chris_Y
I use static versions of everything because my SAM Flex is more likely to freeze with SObjs. I have no idea why. In addition the whole Sobj versioning system seems out of control. Programs other than NetSurf include Sobj files. Either they need a certain Sobj version (name) to work or they include an Sobj with the same name as an existing Sobj and break some other program because the files are not really the same version. For example I have libxml2-2.6.so, libxml2.so and libxml2.so.9. What's the point of the Sobjs if each program needs a different version of the same library? Things would be a lot simpler if the libraries were statically compiled into the program and therefore assured to be the right version and work correctly. I also object to programs installing different Sobjs over ones that were installed by an OS update. I have no way of knowing if system software that uses the same Sobj will work properly with the newly installed version.

Some programs appear to be using the Sobj file date to determine if it should be replaced. Since I backup my system partition and sometimes reinstall the backup, all the system files have the same date on some of my system partitions. I'd like to know what is the correct way of determining an Sobj version (other than by tacking numbers onto the filename).

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SAM Flex 800MZ with 1GB memory & OS4.1u4

@ChrisY

I use the Cairo Sobjs version. Really fast and very stable on my AmigaOne. This version is really excellent.

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@Crumb

The static version does not use SObjs at all.

@xenic

Yes, the SObjs dir is a mess, partly because there was no naming scheme defined when it was first put in. These days most SObjs use the ".so.version" scheme, where it is OK to replace SObjs which have the same version number, as they are API compatible.

If you're concerned about the NetSurf install replacing files run it through in Expert mode and it will prompt the same as it does with libraries. Your date change replacement shouldn't be a problem, it just means you might be running older (but API compatible) versions.

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@Chris_Y

Ummm I got the splash screen but it didn't progress. I'll have to check with snoopium and check out if any library is missing.

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@Thematic

Quote:

Thematic wrote: @Fairdinkem Java isn't missing from Netsurf, but from the OS (family).

So if that be the case then why is ChrisY working towards a Java script engine?

I get it that AmigaOS4 doesn't have Java itself ported but other browsers have Java support built into them as far as I know? Pardon my ignorance as I am not someone who understands coding etc.

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@Fairdinkem

Java and Javascript are two entirely unrelated things, the name similarity merely exists to cause confusion.

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@Crumb

Quote:

Crumb wrote: Ummm I got the splash screen but it didn't progress. I'll have to check with snoopium and check out if any library is missing.

If it's a missing library it should tell you (or, more likely, not even get that far)

I have seen it randomly stop on the splash screen, if you try again you might find it works.

Whatever the problem is can you let me know as I might be able to fix it in the code.

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@Chris_Y

I have voted for the sobj version but I don't see a difference between version about speed.

Both scroll the same with the mousewheel and same grey square on top or bottom when using the mousewheel.

Rendering of the page seemed now rendered with better speed.

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@Mrodfr

There shouldn't be much speed difference between the two versions.

I'll explain in more detail the differences between them:

Static - graphics.library build
This is compiled with static libraries only (no SObjs). It does use standard Amiga libraries of course!

The rendering engine will only ever use graphics.library. Largely this means:
- Various line drawing options are not accurate
- Drawing arcs is not supported
- Bezier curves are not supported

Due to the bezier curves issue, SVG support is not compiled in.

PNG and JPEG support is not compiled in.

SObjs - Cairo build
This is built against various SObjs, including the hardware accelerated libcairo.

The rendering engine is switchable between graphics.library and Cairo (there is a middle option which is the default). This is achieved by setting cairo_renderer to 0, 1 or 2 in Resources/Options.
- When cairo_renderer:0 NetSurf will use graphics.library only and should render identically to the static version (with the same restrictions)
- When cairo_renderer:1 NetSurf uses graphics.library for most things, and Cairo for anything the graphics.library plotter does not support properly. The important restriction in this mode is that Cairo clipping operations are not performed, so sometimes boxes will draw more than they are supposed to (but this is very rare as the blitting operations are clipped using other methods). This is the default and recommended mode.
- When cairo_renderer:2 NetSurf will only use Cairo for drawing operations and Cairo clipping is performed. This is technically the best mode to use, but clipping for some reason is pretty slow, and although useable under Update 2+ the slowdown is noticeable.

SVG is supported and PNG and JPEG decoders are internal, rather than using DataTypes.

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@Chris_Y

I haven't Internet connection in my Sam but I use your browser and the others to test my site and the lodgers association.

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Amiga 500 with ROMs 1.3-2.05 and M-Tec AT 500 with hard disk and 4MB Ram.
WinUAE + original OS 3.5&3.9 running on Intel Atom board.
Sam440ep 600 MHZ (altmost dead).
Sam460ex 1 GHz + OS 4.1 + Update 6.
MacMini 1.5 GHz + MorphOS 3.2.

Based on results so far I'm minded to ditch the static version and OS4.0 support.

If you have a real need for it please speak up!

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Update... I installed the Cairo version of NetSurf 2.7 by mistake.

Last edited by redfox on 24-Sep-2011 at 10:37 PM.
Last edited by redfox on 24-Sep-2011 at 09:17 PM.

@Chris_Y

Sadly, the "Cancel post" button does not work. Can't remember if it did with earlier versions.

I have now installed NetSurf 2.8 SObjs Cairo version on OS4.1 Udate 3 on my MicroA1. It uses significantly more RAM than the graphics.library version.

Still checking out some websites. About 10 minutes ago, I got some timeouts on amigaworld and my system became very sluggish and LimpidClock froze solid.

Seems better now but I will have watch memory usage.

---
redfox
MicroA1 with 750GX CPU and 256 MB RAM
AmigaOS 4.1 Update 3

@redfox

Quote:

redfox wrote: @Chris_Y Sadly, the "Cancel post" button does not work. Can't remember if it did with earlier versions.

It has never worked.

Quote:

Still checking out some websites. About 10 minutes ago, I got some timeouts on amigaworld and my system became very sluggish and LimpidClock froze solid.

You could try reducing task priority. When attempting to receive data NetSurf does some heavy polling if the data isn't arriving. Bit of a pain because the timeout is something like five minutes (NetSurf appears to just use the default).

I've just checked and changing priority to -1 seems to stop everything slowing down during these operations. If it doesn't negatively impact I'll make this the default for next time.

Last edited by Chris_Y on 24-Sep-2011 at 11:26 PM.

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"Miracles we do at once, the impossible takes a little longer" - AJS on Hyperion
Avatar is Tabitha by Eric W Schwartz