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eliyahu 
Amiga NG Startup Timing
Posted on 29-Jan-2012 15:57:03
#1 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2010
Posts: 1405
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA)

guys,

i've noticed many people in the broader amiga NG community consider boot time to be among the 'features' of their respective platforms when compared with mainstream platforms such as windows or linux. i've also considered the ability to start my SAM in seconds to be a nice feature as well, especially when compared with my sun workstations or PCs.

this was recently also brought up here; so as not to pollute that thread further, i thought we might talk about it separately in this forum where it belongs. i'll get the ball rolling, and feel free to pitch in with your own 'benchmark' numbers, tips, and friendly comments:

Quote:
system: SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz; WD 480GB 7200rpm SATA hard drive
modifications: startup-sequence has additions necessary for prism2 driver start
versions: latest u-boot from acube; AmigaOS 4.1u4

from power-on until SLB launch: 11.9 sec
from SLB launch to kickstart load: 0.8 sec
from kickstart load to startup screen: 4.7 sec
from startup screen to workbench launch: 15.5 sec

cold start total: 32.9 sec
cold start (less u-boot): 21.0 sec
warm start total: 15.5 sec

it would appear from this that the dominant actor is u-boot taking a whopping twelve seconds to sense the hardware and hand-off to the SLB. and that's with me mucking about to set the pause to the minimal one second to allow the user to pull up the settings menu. yikes. i've made certain DMA is enabled eveerywhere, but i suspect that doesn't matter to u-boot.

any useful ideas to get that number lower, or any constructive comments welcome. your numbers on your amiga NG would be even more so!



note: this thread is not intended for the negative nellies around here to demonstrate how terrible OS4 is, or how pathetic amiga is, or how intelligent they are, or how PCs are so much better, etc., etc. we've had quite enough from you lot and would appreciate you slinking off back to moo where you belong. thanks in advance....

-- eliyahu

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danwood 
Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing
Posted on 29-Jan-2012 16:50:34
#2 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2008
Posts: 908
From: Unknown

@eliyahu

Make sure all the delay timings (waiting for prefs/boot options) in uboot are set to 0.

Os4.1 boot has slowed down considerably since update 3 though, up 1/2 would boot from warm in around 5 seconds for me, after up3/4 it's more
Like 15. My win 7 PC and my Amiga are pretty much identical boot times
now so I wouldnt say it's so much of a feature now.

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Tomas 
Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing
Posted on 29-Jan-2012 16:53:55
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Jul-2003
Posts: 4259
From: Unknown

@danwood
Even with timers set to 0 it is extremely slow imo.

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Karlos 
Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing
Posted on 29-Jan-2012 16:58:18
#4 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 1913
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

Maybe it's just me, but I stopped caring about reboot speeds a long time ago. I'd much rather work without rebooting ;)

Besides, my vanilla OS3.0 A1200 circa 1996 could warm boot in about 4 seconds (Seagate Medallist, Apollo 1240@25MHz + 8MB 60ns - a beast in those days).

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number6 
Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing
Posted on 29-Jan-2012 17:09:56
#5 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 8710
From: In the village

@eliyahu

Just a general rule, to be safe:

I suggest you make a system changes text file for your personal system.
Make a note of any setting/file etc. that you alter in its present state, as well as a note indicating the change that you made.

This will give you an easy fallback should any issues arise with future changes to the operating system. Too many times I've heard "I should have made a note of what I did".

#6

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Mechanic 
Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing
Posted on 29-Jan-2012 19:53:12
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Jul-2003
Posts: 2007
From: Unknown

@eliyahu

This has been discussed elsewhere, and against my better judgement I'll
mention it here.

In S:Startup-sequence, copy the whole line that begins C:AddNetinterface.....
and paste it just below the line C:LoadWB.

Then put a semicolon ; in front of the original line ;C:AddNetinterface.....
Save it.
Do a soft CTRL+A+A OS reboot.

If in the future you think this is causing problems, just move the ; around.

Should save 3-5 seconds.....depending.

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TheDaddy 
Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing
Posted on 29-Jan-2012 19:58:38
#7 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2005
Posts: 4312
From: Quattro Stelle

@Mechanic

Indeed it was the Mech who told me

Thanks again.

I have managed to reduce it to 15.3 secs with ChrisH's help (DMA enabled).

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BillE 
Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing
Posted on 29-Jan-2012 20:13:30
#8 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Nov-2003
Posts: 1117
From: Northern Scotland

@eliyahu

My XE is similar, booting in about 25-30 seconds from cold. I still think it is too slow but I am impatient.

Though the reason I do turn on a computer is to do something with it and not watch it start up.

My wifes laptop is a nightmare, it takes ages to start up and crawls along when it does finally start.

I have a Mac mini and never use it now because it is so slow to boot up, I can have logged into my ISP and got in my emails and started brwsing before the Mac has even got to its equivalent of workbench. It has the same CPU as my XE but is so low in operation in comparison even after the long boot time has crawled through.


IMHO boot time is VERY important. It is a pity that Windoze and Mac dominate and people have become acustomed to long boot times

Last edited by BillE on 29-Jan-2012 at 08:15 PM.

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OldFart 
Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing
Posted on 29-Jan-2012 20:47:33
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Sep-2004
Posts: 2819
From: Stad; en d'r is moar ain stad en da's Stad. Makkelk zat!

@eliyahu

Quote:
i've noticed many people in the broader amiga NG community consider boot time to be among the 'features' of their respective platforms when compared with mainstream platforms such as windows or linux.

Well, one has to believe in *something* to justify his decisions, doesn't he? Ok, lets talk about something quite different: closing down times.
Amiga: flick of a switch c.q. push of a button (i.e. pulling the plug from the socket). I take joy and pride into it taking no more then a split second. What's your's (generally speaking)?

Oldfart

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OldFart 
Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing
Posted on 29-Jan-2012 20:52:24
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Sep-2004
Posts: 2819
From: Stad; en d'r is moar ain stad en da's Stad. Makkelk zat!

@Mechanic

Changed my S-S to this:


; $VER: Startup-Sequence 53.1 (08.04.2009)
;C:SetPatch QUIET
C:SetPatch ADDCHIPRAM=2 QUIET

FailAt 21

C:Version >NIL:
SetEnv Workbench $Workbench
SetEnv Kickstart $Kickstart
UnSet Workbench
UnSet Kickstart

C:MakeDir RAM:T RAM:Clipboards

C:Assign >NIL: T: RAM:T
C:Assign >NIL: CLIPS: RAM:Clipboards
C:Assign >NIL: KEYMAPS: DEVS:KeyMaps
C:Assign >NIL: PRINTERS: DEVS:Printers
C:Assign >NIL: REXX: S:ARexx
C:Assign >NIL: HELP: LOCALE:Help DEFER
C:Assign >NIL: AMISSL: DEVS:AmiSSL DEFER
C:Assign >NIL: GHOSTSCRIPT: SYS:Utilities/GhostScript DEFER
C:Assign >NIL: PYTHON: SYS:System/Python

C:LoadMonDrvs
C:AddDataTypes REFRESH QUIET
C:IPrefs

C:Mount QUIET DEVS:DOSDrivers/~(#?.info)
;C:AddNetInterface QUIET DEVS:NetInterfaces/~(#?.info)
;Run >NIL: C:AddNetInterface QUIET DEVS:NetInterfaces/~(#?.info)

Path RAM: C: S:Shell S:ARexx SYS:Utilities SYS:Utilities/Commodities SYS:System SYS:Prefs

C:ConClip
;SYS:System/RexxMast >NIL:
Run >NIL: SYS:System/RexxMast >NIL:

C:LoadWB

C:USBCtrl START

If EXISTS S:User-Startup
Execute S:User-Startup
EndIf

Run >NIL: C:AddNetInterface QUIET DEVS:NetInterfaces/~(#?.info)
;Run >NIL: *>NIL: C:SoundPlayer QUIET

EndCLI >NIL:


and my U-S to:

;BEGIN MUI
If EXISTS SYS:MUI
C:Assign >NIL: MUI: SYS:MUI
C:Assign >NIL: ADD LIBS: MUI:Libs
C:Assign >NIL: ADD LOCALE: MUI:Locale
C:Assign >NIL: ADD HELP: MUI:Docs
EndIf
;END MUI

;assign tbimages: SYS:Prefs/Presets/tbimages

; ==========================================

If EXISTS ExtSYS:S
Assign S: ExtSYS:S ADD

If EXISTS S:ExtSYS-StartUp
Execute S:ExtSYS-StartUp
EndIf
EndIf

; ==========================================
; === End of List ==========================
; ==========================================

The short of it: it works...
And doesn't take too much tie.

OldFart

Last edited by OldFart on 29-Jan-2012 at 08:53 PM.

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redfox 
Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing
Posted on 29-Jan-2012 21:07:19
#11 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 1571
From: Canada

@eliyahu

Approximately 45 seconds from cold boot to fully functional Workbench with AmiDock and LimpidClock. LimpidClock is set for STARTPRI=-128 so it comes up after the system is stable.

Please note that I am using auto-discovery and (by default) PIO mode for both my HD and combo drive.

Also I am using the default U-Boot delays.

I quit using U-DMA with my Western Digital 250 GB HD about a year ago.

redfox
MicroA1 + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4

Last edited by redfox on 29-Jan-2012 at 09:26 PM.

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tonyw 
Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing
Posted on 29-Jan-2012 21:18:39
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2895
From: Sydney (of course)

@OldFart

If you have changed the AddNetInterface to a "Run ... AddNetInterface", then it doesn't matter where it is in the S-S any more. It may as well be back where it was originally.

_________________
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tony

Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

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Deniil715 
Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing
Posted on 29-Jan-2012 21:19:03
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 3802
From: Sweden

@eliyahu

How could you get kickstart loading plus initialization to 4.7 second??!
That would indicate that the Sam U-Boot (or whatever it has) doesn't use the dreaded PIO-0 mode like on the A1-XE.

Kickstart loading takes about 7-8 seconds, then another 2-3 second for kickstart to initialize before displaying the logo and AmigaOS boot begins. That is about 9-11 seconds for me

For you, having a slower machine, it would indicate loading kickstart only takes about 1-2 seconds.

@Tomas & danwood

Also make sure you set serial speed to the maximum, which is 115200 on the A1-XE. U-Boot must wait for all (or most) text to be written to the serial, so if this is default (9600) it will take much longer than needed.

Last edited by Deniil715 on 29-Jan-2012 at 09:24 PM.

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Mechanic 
Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing
Posted on 29-Jan-2012 21:20:07
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Jul-2003
Posts: 2007
From: Unknown

@OldFart

I see you also moved USB till after LoadWB. Cool

The point is that it is possible to do things for faster load time, and there
is no reason not to at least try things ( one at a time ) as they can be changed
back even if it means booting from CD to do it. Try that on other systems.

Another tip is to comment out ; things not used on your system in Kicklayout.
No sense in loading, for example, the 'lsi53c8xx.device.kmod' if you do not have
a SCSI card or on-board SCSI chip that uses that Module. No Voodoo card? Comment
it out. Made an OOPS? Remove the semicolon.

My 440ep cold boots to WB in 22-23 seconds. Which is more than fast enough for me
since I hardly ever do more than a OS reboot, and... you can still get to the EarlyStartup
Menu from there if playing around with the OS or need to boot from a different partition.

How the heck do you boot from a different partition in.........whatever?

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KimmoK 
Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing
Posted on 29-Jan-2012 21:43:28
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 4549
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

My warm boot up time is about 13 seconds, but not all tricks are in use yet.
SAM440ep+60GB Seagate momentus 2,5".

For some reason, the system locks up to black screen if I push reset button or ctrl+alt+alt. So, if I want cold reboot I have to reach for the power button. Pretty annoying.
Anyone faced that kind of "feature"? Some uboot variable mixup???


+for memory refresh
How is the DMA set "permanently" on?


+ does anyone know if there is any chance to get DMA enabled/supported in uboot?

_________________
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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
// "priest" is just the RED goaul in me
// The multicolor AmigaFUTURE IS NOW !!

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Mechanic 
Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing
Posted on 29-Jan-2012 21:48:40
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Jul-2003
Posts: 2007
From: Unknown

@tonyw

Quote:

tonyw wrote:
@OldFart

If you have changed the AddNetInterface to ..


Speaking of AddNetinterface.

If you wish to see what is going on with the network startup add these
two lines to S:Startup-sequence just below the original.

C:AddNetinterface DEVS:NetInterfaces/~(#?.info)
C:wait 5

The first line is like the original with the QUIET removed.
Be sure to comment out the original while doing this and then
comment out these lines if not needed and reactivate the original.

Last edited by Mechanic on 29-Jan-2012 at 09:50 PM.
Last edited by Mechanic on 29-Jan-2012 at 09:49 PM.

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eliyahu 
Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing
Posted on 29-Jan-2012 23:13:38
#17 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2010
Posts: 1405
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA)

@Deniil715

Quote:
How could you get kickstart loading plus initialization to 4.7 second??!
That would indicate that the Sam U-Boot (or whatever it has) doesn't use the dreaded PIO-0 mode like on the A1-XE.

Kickstart loading takes about 7-8 seconds, then another 2-3 second for kickstart to initialize before displaying the logo and AmigaOS boot begins. That is about 9-11 seconds for me

i don't know how to explain the timing. i just measure things.

in truth a few kernel modules are commented out in my kicklayout file as i have no need for them. specifically, i have commented out:

Quote:
;MODULE Kickstart/FastFileSystem
;MODULE Kickstart/JXFileSystem
;MODULE Kickstart/gameport.device.kmod
;MODULE Kickstart/it8212ide.device.kmod
;MODULE Kickstart/lsi53c8xx.device.kmod
;MODULE Kickstart/sii0680ide.device.kmod
;MODULE Kickstart/sii3112ide.device.kmod
;MODULE Kickstart/sii3512ide.device.kmod
;MODULE Kickstart/3dfxVoodoo.chip
;MODULE Kickstart/bootmouse.usbfd
;MODULE Kickstart/bootkeyboard.usbfd
;MODULE Kickstart/uhci.usbhcd
;MODULE Kickstart/i2c.resource.kmod

i should also point out that the SAMs tend to boot rather quickly if properly configured. i've seen a pegasos2 boot OS4 and it was agonizingly slow in comparison. which certainly isn't down to the hardware -- morphOS booted on that system in a flash. but certain things do just 'feel' quick on the SAM in many respects such as workbench responsiveness. maybe a u-boot expert could chime in if DMA is enabled once the SLB launches?

but it does seem odd that my kickstart load and launch is nearly half what yours is. that doesn't make much sense to a noob like me.

-- eliyahu

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Deniil715 
Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing
Posted on 30-Jan-2012 9:00:55
#18 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 3802
From: Sweden

@eliyahu

I didn't comment out quite that many modules. But most of these are fairly small anyway so shouldn't make that much difference.

Only thing I can think of is that SATA cannot run as slow as PATA/IDE. Perhaps SATA's slowest mode, or default mode, is about 4-8 times faster than PATA/PIO-0 or something..?

Just hope the X1000 isn't as slow as the old A1s. That would be embarrasing.. If the X1000 can load kickstart in say 1 second, then it would probably be able to do the initialization in 1 second. That would be nice. Of course, loading kickstart in 1 second is still dead slow. Should be 0.1s, but 1 is good enough.

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m3x 
Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing
Posted on 30-Jan-2012 9:45:48
#19 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-May-2003
Posts: 297
From: Bologna, Italy

@Deniil715

Quote:
How could you get kickstart loading plus initialization to 4.7 second??! That would indicate that the Sam U-Boot (or whatever it has) doesn't use the dreaded PIO-0 mode like on the A1-XE.


U-boot on Sam440ep/Sam460ex use PIO-4.

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fishy_fis 
Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing
Posted on 30-Jan-2012 10:54:03
#20 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1253
From: Australia

My AROS box takes about 10 second from power on until a fully functioning OS is up and running. BIOS post takes 4 seconds, grub delays for 1 second, and OS boots to fully usable in another 5.
Warm reboot is about 2 seconds.

I could of course speed up this boot time if I did any optimisations to loaded modules and u-s/s-s, but its quick enough for me already so didnt bother :)

Last edited by fishy_fis on 30-Jan-2012 at 11:00 AM.

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