Leo Nigro CTO of CUSA (AKA BigBenAussie) has admitted that CUSA's "CommodoreOS" contains a script that rips the ROM files from Cloantos Amiga Forever package for use with CUSA's CommodoreOS...

CUSA Admit They Promote & Enable Piracy...



Wow talk about not being afraid of legal action or worried about piracy...

Even if you own AmigaForever the distribution licence for the ROMs only allows you to use them with AmigaForever alone and in no other manner, so here we have CUSA providing/ selling a piece of software that enables piracy of part of another companies commercially available product in their OS that will rip these ROM files to use illegally with their CommodoreOS...

Never thought I'd say this but, good for you CUSA, it's high time someone took a stance against the ridiculous monopolisation that Cloanto have been doing with these ROM image files for years... well done for once CUSA...

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@Franko

I bet he will come back saying 'well they have been purchased, so its legal' but then I bet the licence for the roms would restrict the usage only to AmigaForever distribution. And not to be used on any other platform or os without permission.

_________________
Cross-developer on Windows, OS3, OS4, Linux; Current Projects:-
Nephele Cloud App OS4
UserProfile System OS4
AmigaOneXE OS4.1.6

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@Franko

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Wow talk about not being afraid of legal action or worried about piracy...

Leo appears to be suggesting that user buy Amiga Forever. How exactly is that advocating piracy.

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Even if you own AmigaForever the distribution licence for the ROMs only allows you to use them with AmigaForever alone and in no other manner

No such limitations mentioned here;

http://www.amigaforever.com/kb/13-145

Quote:

it's high time someone took a stance against the ridiculous monopolisation that Cloanto have been doing with these ROM image files for years...

I just don't seem to understand why some people have a problem with Cloanto and Amiga Forever. Especially people who only use classic Amigas anyway.

@Rob

Quote:

Leo appears to be suggesting that user buy Amiga Forever. How exactly is that advocating piracy.

It's very simple... Leo Nigro may well be suggesting that if you want the ROMs you would have to buy Amiga Forever but he is advocating piracy and promoting it by including a utility in CommodoreOS that RIPS these encrypted versions of the Kickstart ROMS from Cloanto's Amiga Forever package, what's so difficult to understand about that !!!


Quote:

No such limitations mentioned here; http://www.amigaforever.com/kb/13-145

The distribution licence Cloanto have for the Kickstart ROMS & Workbench disk sets in their package does not allow them to be used with anything else other than Amiga Forever...

Legally you cannot take the ROMS (even if you buy Amiga Forever) and use them for any other purpose, like say for example on a Blizzard board with Blizzkick or with CommodoreOS...

Those are facts, as I had them checked out by my solicitor after my run in with Cloanto in recent times...

My problem with Cloanto is the monopolisation they have on Workbench & the ROM images, why should I or anyone have have to pay Cloanto to buy their Amiga Forever package which is no good to me (I only use real Amiga Hardware) in order to get a few files from it which by the terms of their distribution licence I couldn't use legally on my real Amiga's...

Cloanto may well have the rights to the trademark "Workbench" & a distribution licence for certain parts of the Amiga's OS but I sure as heck aint buying a product that is of no use to me just to obtain some files that I wouldn't be able to use legally anyway...

As Cloanto are so good at threatening people with legal action if they make their files available, my solicitor is very interested in seeing how they react to CUSA providing a means for people to rip files from their product to be used illegally as it will only help when I have to take legal action against Cloanto...

It's a very simple situation to understand, so in case you missed it...

The Kickstart ROM image files & Workbench Disk Sets included on Amiga Forever by the terms of the licence Cloanto hold, cannot be legally used with anything other than Cloanto's Amiga Forever package...

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@TheAMIgaOne

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I bet he will come back saying 'well they have been purchased, so its legal'

And that would be right.

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I bet the licence for the roms would restrict the usage only to AmigaForever distribution.

Post-purchase licenses are not valid. OK, they may be valid but they are not moral. You can't hold me to agreement I didn't sign or know before paying. I paid for it, I'll use it as I see fit. You can stop providing me a service but once you sold me your stuff you've lost your say of how I use it.

I'll jail-break my phones, I'll hack my consoles into media-centers, I'll run emulators and as long as I'm not going to sell it for profit there's nothing wrong with that.

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@opi

Suppose im thinking like 'End User Agreement', example of Mac OSX although can be purchased legally, using it on a Non Mac x86 machine is breaching the end user agreement

_________________
Cross-developer on Windows, OS3, OS4, Linux; Current Projects:-
Nephele Cloud App OS4
UserProfile System OS4
AmigaOneXE OS4.1.6

TaoSoftwareBlog Youtube

@TheAMIgaOne

And? The Hackingtosh community is alive and well.

_________________
OpenWindows Initiative. Port PS3 hardware to bananas. For free. Join today and receive expired $50 cupon from AI!

@Franko

While it doesn`t prevent people from using pirated Amiga Forever, it doesn`t advocate it either. However is Amiga Forever supplied at least with Amiga Mini? What is strategic partnership then for?

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AF 2012, Hollywood Designer 5, AmigaOS 3.5,4.0 and 4.1 registered user, user of Linux Mint 13
Roots Taking Over The World

@Franko

This is really weird since they claim they have licence from Cloanto.

And is mentioned in this Amiga Mini review


Its very surprising, and it even at Amiga Classic emulation level, now AmigaOS 4.1.4 can legally run OS 3 apps and OCS-AGA games and COS can`t without additional Amiga Forever.

Last edited by vox on 25-Apr-2012 at 03:09 PM.

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AF 2012, Hollywood Designer 5, AmigaOS 3.5,4.0 and 4.1 registered user, user of Linux Mint 13
Roots Taking Over The World

@vox

Where did you read CUSA claim that they have a "licence" from Cloanto !!!

Cloanto wouldn't even allow CUSA to use the name "Workbench" which Cloanto hold the trademark for (hence the reason why CUSA had to rename their OS Comoodore OS)so I doubt very much they have given or made a deal with CUSA to distribute Amiga Forever with their range of non Amigas...

It'd be interesting to see a link where you read that CUSA had got a licence/ deal as even the magazine article you posted doesn't mention it...

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@Franko

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Where did you read CUSA claim that they have a "licence" from Cloanto !!!

He may have extrapolated that from:

Quote:

We have included a number of licensed game ROMs through a partnership with Cloanto

source

#6

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This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@Franko

Quote:

Cloanto wouldn't even allow CUSA to use the name "Workbench"

Back when we were first considering building a Linux distro of our own, we publicly discussed, and asked for comment, on an array of names for the distro, including the Workbench name. However everyone went nuts at the suggestion, so we decided not to use the name. In other words we listened to concerns and acted, and continue to get clobbered for it, which is unfair.
So in the end, we had no requirement to ask Cloanto for something we didn't want and thus your comment that it was denied is completely wrong.
We have rights from Amiga Inc, to legally distribute Amiga ROMs for game emulation, which is entirely valid under the Hyperion settlement, so I don't see a requirement for Cloanto's involvement, although I would personally like to see it happen on purely sentimental grounds.

Quote:

As Cloanto are so good at threatening people with legal action if they make their files available, my solicitor is very interested in seeing how they react to CUSA

And you would probably know.
They have been well aware of what we are doing regarding Amiga Forever scripting for quite some time.
We do not (currently) distribute their software.....
How could they not consider what we are doing as a free advertisement for their product.
It is clearly stipulated that it is THEIR product and whether or not, we do include Amiga Forever with our machines, its integration in Commodore OS would be by the exact same means.

I also want to point out a double standard here.
How come no-one picks on Janus UAE on AROS for doing the same thing with ROM and even Workbench files?

Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 01-May-2012 at 12:07 PM.
Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 01-May-2012 at 12:00 PM.

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Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

@BigBentheAussie

Quote:

They have been well aware of what we are doing regarding Amiga Forever scripting for quite some time. We do not (currently) distribute their software.....

So in short even C64x, VIC, VIC Mini and Amiga Mini`s are not supplied with ROMs and properly configured UAE?

AROS, OS4 and MorphOS don`t have a rip script but AmiKit, AmiSYS and such support Amiga Forever.

Jah bless those that you freely advertise.

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AF 2012, Hollywood Designer 5, AmigaOS 3.5,4.0 and 4.1 registered user, user of Linux Mint 13
Roots Taking Over The World

@Franko

There's no such thing as a license in the consumer computer market. Have you every bought a "license" from anyone? You walk into a store and a buy a copy of Microsoft Office or Amiga Forever or whatever. Putting a "user agreement"on shrink wrap or a click through window is like buying a car and then having a piece of paper in the glove box stating that you can't drive the car on certain roads!

You can refuse to support it, like Apple does with jailbroken devices, but you can't tell me not to do it. You are perfectly within your rights to use the Cloanto ROMS you purchased for anything you like. Cloanto may not support it, but it's really none of their business, so long as I am not violating copyright and giving it away to someone else.

@persia

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persia wrote: @Franko There's no such thing as a license in the consumer computer market. Have you every bought a "license" from anyone?

Erm YES...

Almost everything you buy for use on a Mac has an "End User License Agreement" and I've bought a few of them...

I don't like the idea though of buying a piece of software and only being able to discover that you have to a agree to a licence agreement on it AFTER you have purchased the damn thing but unfortunately IT IS LEGAL here in the UK and other than not clicking on the "I Agree" button LEGALLY you have no option if you want to use it...

Believe me I have since discovering these dumb ####d licence agreements since I bought a Mac asked Trading Standards about the legality of them and sadly they are LEGAL and whether you paid for it or not doesn't mean you can do what you want with it for even your own personal use...

Happily though, I couldn't give crap about "Licences" & "Agreements" and do as I please but the point is it's perfectly legal for Apple to use these licences whether you or I like them or not...

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@BigBentheAussie

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BigBentheAussie wrote: @Franko Quote: Cloanto wouldn't even allow CUSA to use the name "Workbench" Back when we were first considering building a Linux distro of our own, we publicly discussed, and asked for comment, on an array of names for the distro, including the Workbench name. However everyone went nuts at the suggestion, so we decided not to use the name. In other words we listened to concerns and acted, and continue to get clobbered for it, which is unfair. So in the end, we had no requirement to ask Cloanto for something we didn't want and thus your comment that it was denied is completely wrong. We have rights from Amiga Inc, to legally distribute Amiga ROMs for game emulation, which is entirely valid under the Hyperion settlement, so I don't see a requirement for Cloanto's involvement, although I would personally like to see it happen on purely sentimental grounds.

I'll believe you... millions wouldn't (Well the few thousands Amiga users still left anyway)...


Quote:

And you would probably know.

I do indeed...


Quote:

I also want to point out a double standard here. How come no-one picks on Janus UAE on AROS for doing the same thing with ROM and even Workbench files?

No double standards from me mate...

Not got a clue about Janus UAE but AROS & even MorphOS would have a hard time legally defending themselves if it ever came to a court case over the Amiga ROM code...

Personally I couldn't care less about copyright, IP's or licences when it comes to Kickstart ROMS or old Amga software (Games or Apps). I have been quite happily using pirated copies of tons of the stuff for years now and giving them to and recieving them from others...

It all utter bullshit when it come to companies like Cloanto, Amiga Inc & CUSA desperately grasping to hold on to Amiga stuff when they know they will never make any real money from them...

Nor will they ever be able to stop folk using/ obtaining ROM images or ADFs "illegally". Dunno why these desperadoes still hold onto this stuff like retarded scrooges in 2012 when everything is already out there and whether some folk care to admit it or not we all use "Illegal' stuff when it come to our miggies...

It's time for everyone in Amigaland to just ignore companies like A.inc, Cloanto etc... and stop pretending like a bunch of little kids that although everything for the Amiga is freely out there and we shouldn't mention it or post links to it...

The Amiga community has to be one of the most dumbest and pathetic when it comes to this entire issue of old software that no one gives a crap about anymore (not even the real copyright holders care) and it's time some of them stopped playing at the Three Wise Monkeys on this issue and were honest about the whole damn thing just for once...

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@Franko

Has anyone in the UK had civil action taken against them for violating an "end user agreement" or license?

Jailbreaking is the most common form of violating an end user agreement. It appears to be perfectly legal in many countries, including the US and Australia. Where many cross the legal line is downloading pirated apps after they have jailbroken the Apple device, loading a Cydia App is perfectly legal, looading an Installous one is not....

@persia

Quote:

persia wrote: @Franko Has anyone in the UK had civil action taken against them for violating an "end user agreement" or license?

Couldn't tell you as I neither care or can be bothered to find out to be honest...

Quote:

Jailbreaking is the most common form of violating an end user agreement. It appears to be perfectly legal in many countries, including the US and Australia. Where many cross the legal line is downloading pirated apps after they have jailbroken the Apple device, loading a Cydia App is perfectly legal, looading an Installous one is not....

The only "Jailbreaking" I know about were a few old mates of mine who did it and were on the run many years ago, not got a scooby doo what "jailbreaking" is when it comes to computers as again I can't be bothered with such daft terms let alone look it up...

The point I think is dumb about all these "user licences" is, do the software companies really think that Joe Public reads them or cares about them. I suppose they are mainly aimed at business users but I doubt very much that your average home user considers them legal or not...


PS: I've purchased a few apps for my Macs but only after I'd downloaded pirate copies first to try them, I downloaded the entire PhotoShop package and promptly deleted it when I discovered just how crap it was, piracy has it's place as I would have been very peed off if I had bought PhotoShop only to discover it was garbage...

PPS: Think I'll go google "Jailbreaking" and see what it's all about (quite curious now)...

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@persia

Jailbreaking...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_jailbreaking

Ok I should have known better than to go to that fountain of claptrap & rambling of loonies "Wikipedia" but it was the first one I came across...

After reading the "explanation" I am left now thinking that "Trolls" & "Trolling" are not just the two most ridiculous words used on the internet today but now have to add "Jailbreaking" as being totally stupid as well...

What on earth has "Jailbreaking" got on common or even make any sense with basically hacking an electronic device...

Jailbreaking means to break out or escape from a prison, so how on earth can this term be applied to hacking some device to allow you do do other things to it !!!

Or did I miss something by going to Wiki and the real reason it's used by numpties on the net is that you are in fact freeing all those little microprocessors and letting them run wild never to be seen again !!!

Who comes up with applying these terms on the net when they don't actually mean or make sense to the thing they are trying to be applied to and worse... why on earth do folk use them... reckon the net has caused more brain damage than head on collisions by drunk drivers... make no sense half the time the stuff people gibber on it...

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@BigBenTheAussie
How come no-one picks on AROS + Janus uae for doing the same thing, even with Workbench files?

Id hazzard a guess its because AROS doesnt come with Janus UAE, let alone have any scripts for utilizing kickstart rom images or WB files.

@Franko
Neither MOS, nor AROS have any kickstart rom code. The aros kickstart rom replacement is compatible, but contains no code from kickstart. This is completely legal, and its far from a 1st.

Last edited by fishy_fis on 04-May-2012 at 06:19 PM.
Last edited by fishy_fis on 04-May-2012 at 05:45 PM.