Well, you'll all remember the non-appearing Shark PPC board.

I was lurking around Varisys' website today, and I noticed under "Products" that they do a PPC PCI board, 867 MHz to 1.3 GHz, complete with Altivec, 128Mb to 1Gb Ram.

Makes you wonder if drivers could be written for a Classic with a Mediator PCI
board.

Link

Last edited by OldAmigan on 21-May-2012 at 10:00 PM.
Last edited by OldAmigan on 21-May-2012 at 09:58 PM.

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@OldAmigan

Quote:

Makes you wonder if drivers could be written for a Classic with a Mediator PCI board.

Ain't PCI a bit too slow to be used as CPU socket?

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@OldAmigan

Well that PCI card could be a solution for everyone (PC, Mac users also) to run AmigaOS 4 only if A-EON and Hyperion wanted it

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@opi

I would think to question that too... I'm not so sure but at least 32bit/33MHz PCI was not enough for "modern" GPU chips to be hooked up to the system memory leading to the developments of AGP, PCI-Express and "ThunderBolt" connections and the likes...

So I wonder how well it would perform as anything more than a headless system in a box contained on the card...

unless we decide to use such a card for "Co Processor" dedicated functions like the older "Transputer" cards and whatever happened to them?

@OldAmigan

Quote:

Makes you wonder if drivers could be written for a Classic with a Mediator PCI board.

I think that was exactly the plan?

1)Take an existing product (PCI PowerPC accelerator created for Macs.)
2)Write software to support it.
3)Make some "copy protection" changes to rom to prevent users from buying and using the cheaper "normal" model.
4)Sell it rebranded for profit.
5)If it's unlikely to get caught, make changes to software that will harm users' computer if tampered with.

Well, that's pretty much how it was done with SpiderUSB already, so Elbox definitely has past experiences with this business model.

-EDIT-
Personally I can't see any point in having classic amiga stuck to this (I prefer saying it that way, rather than "sticking this to classic")

Firstly, classics arre getting more and more rare (as more get broken and no new ones will be manufactured) - it's better to keep them as "minimal" as possible (I guess it's safe to say that this kind of expansions won't at least reduce the chances of hardware breaking)

Secondly, what's the POINT of classic with this?I wouldn't expect "the classic side" to do much more than maybe "supply pci bus to connect the whole system to (and that would be mediator, which in itself isn't classic)" and perhaps maybe even run some minimal code on "classic side" to transfer mouse, joystick and keyboard events to the PCI bus. Maybe even floppy drive. Hard disk would probably work too, really slowly, better put it to PCI bus directly. Probably there could be a key combination to disable the PCI card and boot to "classic side")- in my opinion, it would be MUCH more sensible to plug this to some cheap PCI-equipped (yes, PCI still isn't completely phased out) X86 board. And hey, as an additional bonus, it should already be supported!

Thirdly, would OS4 and MorphOS development teams be interested in supporting it?Considering both have what I'd call "much more sensible targets", I don't think it would be a too high priority...

If you have some (in my opinion unrealistic) dreams about "using both 68k and PowerPC simultaneously", remember that both of the processors have their own memory spaces with no (direct) access to the other one. So at best, it would be more or less "2 computers in one case". Running some non-system-friendly game on classic side while PowerPC would be doing something else MIGHT be theoretically possible, but then you'd obviously lose controls (kb+mouse) as long as it's running. And that would be VERY hacky...

Last edited by Jupp3 on 21-May-2012 at 11:29 PM.
Last edited by Jupp3 on 21-May-2012 at 11:22 PM.
Last edited by Jupp3 on 21-May-2012 at 11:19 PM.

@OldAmigan

Well on the puss side it has RAM on board,

negative side graphic is going to be rally slow, if has to moved in and out of the PCI slot, if this card was connected to A1200 or A4000, then this board will only be able to use A1200 or A4000 for simple operations, like controlling the mouse and keyboard, and possible the 680x0 CPU most likely having to deal whit frame buffer, swapping in and out memory.

“Windows2000” and “SDRAM” this product most be old :-b

I think the idea behind this product is to use it for number crunching, so the graphics is not a requirement.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 22-May-2012 at 09:28 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-May-2012 at 11:59 PM.

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I dont mind the classics.now ITS time to give Amiga ng ACC cards.
I would Line one for ny micro.i cant use a new gfx card anyway.
Lets say i pluged an 2 slots razer card in.how big a bottle nack would i get. ???
With an ppc card and a Radeon 4350 ????


I allso think that sam 460 ussers and x1000 owners would Line such a card for an option

You have to ask yourself,why would their build such a card and put it on a PCI bus.

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@OldAmigan

The pictured board seems to be 64bit PCI, so, not usable at all.
But the idea itself is ok, if every classic had PCI slots.

For modern use & future the card should be PCIe version.
And if used as CPU/accelerator for existing HW, SW should be developed and it's not a simple thing.
Some 100-200eur PCIe card for existing x86 motherboards could enable interesting way to get AOS4 compatible HW. And perhaps for MOS theam to develop towards the architecture change.

I have been toying/drafting the community computer idea. It's main bulding block would be PCIex16 form factor PPC SoC with rear panel HDMI, USB, ethernet, ePCIe etc. With busboards it could be fitted in any form factor case + custom minimig style cases (and cases for 5.25"...3.25" drive bays).
Getting the card to work as PCIe connected accelerator/clusternode for existing boards might be worth extra low priority study. Anyway it can be used via Gb ethernet and later via 10Gb ethernet & existing linux tools (perhaps also with screamernet, gcc compile cluster etc.for AOS SW needs).

btw. varisys have other HW that could be pretty easily used as AOS4 motherboard, if someone wanted to fund the needed SW porting etc. But I'm afraid they all are pricey..

Last edited by KimmoK on 22-May-2012 at 07:31 AM.

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@opi

You think PCI is any slower than the interface currently used to connect accelerators to a classic Amiga? Think of it not as a CPU but as a motherboard. Not a whole lot of years ago you wouldn't blink at the concept of using a shared PCI bus to connect everything except graphics card to your computer. And btw, this is at the very least 64b/66MHz PCI (same bandwidth as 2xAGP), so not completely hopeless for a classic

Interfacing to it would be tricky, as this is made as a device rather than a host (unlike the Mac accelerators). However, given that the Mediator wouldn't necessarily work with a host sitting on the PCI side anyway, theres always a chance that two wrongs could in fact make a right and this could work by using a simple 680x0 accelerator to convey messages between the PCI side and the Amiga side. We know that you can set aside graphics memory to do DMA from other cards, this means that bus mastering and DMA works. Should at the very least be possible to have this card DMA into GFX mem and have other cards like sound/network/ide DMA into this card.

Still, the chipset access would be very tricky indeed.

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@OldAmigan

This card is more expensive than an X1000 (I asked).

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@elwood

Quote:

This card is more expensive than an X1000 (I asked).

Very sad, since X1000 is dual core system and a complete one with the board, gfx card etc. Otherwize adding PPC card to any existing system would be a nice solution to spread OS4, earn on hardware a bit and yet spread OS 4 / MorphOS / AROS PPC / Linux PPC

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This card (or similar) was already available by the time A-Eon announced partnership with Varysis... I also found (by that time) a PAT64 Evaluationboard with a CFE... (I think that was also on their website, but not 100% sure).

As Trevor said "They have a proofen track record" (me: in regards of PPC)

Last edited by gerograph on 22-May-2012 at 09:33 PM.

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@elwood

There is another card in the works, maybe cheaper ?


http://ultimateppc.nl/

@bennymee

* 1.0GHz Freescale PowerPC CPU
* 128MB of DDR3 memory for the 68040
* An additional 2GB of DDR3 memory on an SO-DIMM
* USB2 host controller with integrated 4 port hub
* SATA2 controller with two SATA ports
* 10/100/1000 Ethernet controller
* Embedded 2D video with DVI connector

That's not too bad, 68040 might be dropped if they put a FLASH ROM whit UAE-JIT engine on it, it can be super fast 68k system, or leap over to Linux PPC or AROS PPC or even AmigaOS4.x if they can make deal whit Hyperion.

Of course a real 68040 is better then UAE JIT engine if your interested in running old Amiga 500 games and so on due compressed exe files, self modifying code and so on.

The old PowerMac's used to emulate the 680x0 chip.

This will probably be faster then Sam440 and maybe also MicroAmigaOne, AmigaONE-SE, of course the market for thing like this maybe not so big, how many have a 3000 or 4000 computer that works, and how many are interested in using it fore more then playing some games, I believe the classic users is hard core nostalgic gamer.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 22-May-2012 at 11:39 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 22-May-2012 at 11:27 PM.

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@Belxjander

Quote:

dedicated functions like the older "Transputer" cards and whatever happened to them?

You're kidding, right?

The "older transputers" as you put it have continued to develop. They have now condensed the transputer down to a single (or multiple) cores. The name has changed, they now call themselves "XMOS".

There is a rumor about a NG Amiga with a PA6T processor and TWO transputers on the motherboard. Code name is "Nemo", as I recall.

I think it sounds pretty exciting myself.

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@bennymee

Looks like they've been hard at work. I hope they can keep it on schedule. I guess the 2D video is built into the P1013 but do you know if there will be an option for a x16 PCI slot for something more powerful and without the bottlenecks associated with using a Mediator for this function.

all..

you do think when os 4.x gets smp that this board will work on amiga one or sam460 or amiga one x1000 boards ???


let classics be classics buy your self an sam lite iff you wanna run os 4,x and you dont can effort an x1000 and you allready have an netbook...

@lylehaze

Well I didn't really follow up on where it lead... only dipped into things every now and again and usually to answer specific questions...

so no, not kidding but not exactly fully informed on the subject either...

I was more apt to follow the material on http://www.thule.no/haynie/ than anything else...

and then treated it all as a snapshot of things at the time it got released...

as for the X1000, I'm fully aware of it but it is still a bit pricey for me... It took me 4 months AND donations to get the sam440flex I did buy (that I am currently waiting on shipping to receive) so that I can get somewhere with testing the software I am typing up from my notes (those of which I have recovered and re-written from faded memories...)

Hopefully I can fill a gap or two and the software I am writing doesn't need extensive support over the long-term...

Mostly it is for "stop gap" filling in for some of the stuff people complain about the Amiga not having...
just until there is a bigger market.. or at least trying to keep this market in one community instead of all the bickering and carrying on I've only got 2nd-hand commentary about...

Last edited by Belxjander on 23-May-2012 at 04:54 AM.