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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  AmigaOS 4: SMP & 64-bit at December!
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coriolis 
AmigaOS 4: SMP & 64-bit at December!
Posted on 12-Jun-2013 18:13:24
#1 ]
Member
Joined: 23-Dec-2011
Posts: 45
From: Moscow, Russian Federation

December 2002 :)

http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/amigaosdev1.html

I really don't understand - Hyperion every year spends 100000 euros from unidentified sources (1.7m euros from 2001!) and AmigaOS4 development still located at early stages of project.

Cound anyone tell me - what commercial profit of Hyperion? Why this company is still alive?

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thomas 
Re: AmigaOS 4: SMP & 64-bit at December!
Posted on 12-Jun-2013 18:22:11
#2 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-May-2003
Posts: 1085
From: Germany

@coriolis

The time line you quote is not from Hyperion. The company which made this time line is no longer alive.

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Kicko 
Re: AmigaOS 4: SMP & 64-bit at December!
Posted on 12-Jun-2013 20:59:57
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 19-Jun-2004
Posts: 5006
From: Sweden

@coriolis

Its 2013 now, the news are like 11 years old.

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Crumb 
Re: AmigaOS 4: SMP & 64-bit at December!
Posted on 12-Jun-2013 21:15:50
#4 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Mar-2003
Posts: 2208
From: Zaragoza (Aragonian State)

@coriolis

Hyperion claimed in 2011 that SMP wouldn't take 2 years

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logicalheart 
Re: AmigaOS 4: SMP & 64-bit at December!
Posted on 12-Jun-2013 22:45:39
#5 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 2-Dec-2003
Posts: 676
From: Sandy, Utah. USA

A "bet" that it wouldn't take two years from the time they started developing that feature on the X1000. Since we don't know when they started, we don't know when the two year mark is.

For all we know, it could be finished, but not integrated. I guess it doesn't matter since it isn't planned for release until somewhere in the OS 4.2.x release path.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: AmigaOS 4: SMP & 64-bit at December!
Posted on 12-Jun-2013 22:56:27
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 10705
From: Norway

@Crumb

SMP was out of the question as long as they did not have a dual core CPU module, and working motherboard, the XE/SE bugs did take a long time to fix.

And back then the SE/XE was not ready, before that it was a AmigaONE acclamator card for Amiga1200 and 4000, not CyberstormPPC or BizzardPPC, the AmigaONE acclamator never materialized.

It just perfect example of things do not work out as you expect, and way too optimistic.

http://web.archive.org/web/20010413040431/http://www.eyetech.co.uk/amigaone/faq.php

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realize 
Re: AmigaOS 4: SMP & 64-bit at December!
Posted on 13-Jun-2013 1:59:50
#7 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2003
Posts: 1761
From: nyc

If all the fanboys would listen to the few developers that know about these things (SMP dual processor support, mem protection, etc) you would know that its NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Just more carrot dangling.

Lets focus on what IS possible and realistic. LIke exciting projects like LIbre Office and Timberwolf.

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NovaCoder 
Re: AmigaOS 4: SMP & 64-bit at December!
Posted on 13-Jun-2013 4:21:39
#8 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2008
Posts: 453
From: Melbourne (Australia)

@realize

What I don't understand is why Hyperion didn't just take a 64bit Unix core and then build an Amiga WB on top of it. I think this is basically the strategy which Apple followed a few years back and it seems to have worked out for them.

Last edited by NovaCoder on 13-Jun-2013 at 05:18 AM.
Last edited by NovaCoder on 13-Jun-2013 at 05:17 AM.

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sundown 
Re: AmigaOS 4: SMP & 64-bit at December!
Posted on 13-Jun-2013 5:33:56
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5098
From: Right here...

@realize

Quote:
If all the fanboys would listen to the few developers that know about these things (SMP dual processor support, mem protection, etc) you would know that its NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Just more carrot dangling.

Link please, the correct phrase is "multi-core", or are you dangling something else?

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Develin 
Re: AmigaOS 4: SMP & 64-bit at December!
Posted on 13-Jun-2013 6:36:11
#10 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2006
Posts: 418
From: Karlstad, Sweden

@NovaCoder

Yes, that would solve a LOT of stopping issues when it comes to platform limitations.
Amithlon NG =)

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: AmigaOS 4: SMP & 64-bit at December!
Posted on 13-Jun-2013 7:19:46
#11 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1252
From: CRO

@NovaCoder

In Hyperion's defence, back when Amiga Inc started the OS4 project, it was meant to be just a stop gap untill the much more advanced OS5 which would have all those modern features. But Hyperion was too slow to come out with OS4 and in the end everything went to hell...

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Hypex 
Re: AmigaOS 4: SMP & 64-bit at December!
Posted on 13-Jun-2013 7:31:03
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8691
From: Greensborough, Australia

@coriolis

I see a lot of Ami's here or rather Am's. I didn't know it was called AmFFS. Was that a MUI based FFS? I only knew it as FFS.

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vox 
Re: AmigaOS 4: SMP & 64-bit at December!
Posted on 13-Jun-2013 7:55:48
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3725
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:
In Hyperion's defence, back when Amiga Inc started the OS4 project, it was meant to be just a stop gap untill the much more advanced OS5 which would have all those modern features. But Hyperion was too slow to come out with OS4 and in the end everything went to hell...


Agreed. Have in Mind that Amiga Inc and Tao Intent / Amiga Anywhere/ OS5 development went to hell before OS4. Even development is slow as hell, features in OS 4.1 and likely OS 4.2 are way over mentioned promises. If we live to see OS5 that will be nice and rich OS

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vox 
Re: AmigaOS 4: SMP & 64-bit at December!
Posted on 13-Jun-2013 7:58:33
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3725
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@realize

Quote:
If all the fanboys would listen to the few developers that know about these things (SMP dual processor support, mem protection, etc) you would know that its NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Just more carrot dangling. Lets focus on what IS possible and realistic. LIke exciting projects like LIbre Office and Timberwolf.


You know recently it went official.
http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/?p=863

Until developer sais its not possible, we are likely to believe what is official announcement.
Thanks community and A-EON for side projects like Libre and TW. This 3 together (OS 4.2, OO and TW) could finally give us usable and quite modern platform.

Quote:
Exec SG : kernel development has been forked off into an experimental and stable branch, to facilitate field testing of potentially drastically new features such as the scheduler, separate address spaces, 64 bit address space awareness etc. The task scheduler was completely rewritten in C and now implements the long planned “pluggable” scheduler functionality : the scheduling algorithm can be changed on the fly, during runtime depending on factors like task’s preference and CPU load, different CPU cores using different scheduling algorithms. The re-write of the scheduler also allows for load balancing which is required for proper multicore support.

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KimmoK 
Re: AmigaOS 4: SMP & 64-bit at December!
Posted on 13-Jun-2013 8:54:08
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5049
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@NovaCoder

Unix core did not make Apple an Amiga, modern Apple is just another unix.




My 0.2 cents to official info:
-kernel development has been forked off into an experimental and stable branch, to facilitate field testing of potentially drastically new features (very good, it had to be done)
-such as the scheduler (executive -like features, hopefully *)
-separate address spaces (not yet full memory protection, but anyway step towards it)
-64 bit address space awareness (Nice and mandatory. I need more RAM)

* “pluggable” scheduler functionality : the scheduling algorithm can be changed on the fly, during runtime depending on factors like task’s preference and CPU load, different CPU cores using different scheduling algorithms. The re-write of the scheduler also allows for load balancing which is required for proper multicore support.

Very nice, just get it out!

Last edited by KimmoK on 13-Jun-2013 at 09:01 AM.

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Hattig 
Re: AmigaOS 4: SMP & 64-bit at December!
Posted on 13-Jun-2013 9:36:03
#16 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 340
From: Cambridge, UK

Yeah, *if* this is being done, it will in effect be a whole new operating system based upon AmigaOS concepts and structure, but providing modern features like SMP, memory protection, 64-bit, etc.

That's only half the job though, you also need to incorporate a transparent backwards compatible environment that runs everything that currently exists for the platform. This would have all the limitations of the old platform, in order to be compatible.

And then you need to provide a development path for existing applications to be migrated to run on the new OS directly instead of within the 32-bit classic environment.

A very very difficult development in my opinion, especially when the number of developers is limited as with Hyperion.

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Hypex 
Re: AmigaOS 4: SMP & 64-bit at December!
Posted on 13-Jun-2013 11:34:57
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8691
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Hattig

Being OS4 was meant to be the clean break it does seem silly that OS4 native apps need to be sand-boxed like 68K apps.

After all that as the point of OS4 in the first place: A clean break.

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resle 
Re: AmigaOS 4: SMP & 64-bit at December!
Posted on 13-Jun-2013 11:45:23
#18 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2005
Posts: 483
From: shanghai

@Hypex

Aos 4 is all but a clean break. It's a struggle to modernize Aos 3.1 as much as possible, thanks to the brave efforts of a handful of developers. It's keeping a patient alive at all costs knowing he won't ever run again, but trying to make him at least walk. And it's a dead end.

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Hypex 
Re: AmigaOS 4: SMP & 64-bit at December!
Posted on 14-Jun-2013 14:10:19
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8691
From: Greensborough, Australia

@resle

Well that dead man's been walking a long time now. Eventually everything is a dead end. But there tends to be a new version that replaces it.

Once OS4 gets SMP, MP with 68K and 32-bit PPC running in a sandbox and what not I wonder, will there still be a point in running on PPC hardware?

Given the PPC Mac idea was given the boot, once we get to the point of no decent affordable PowerPC hardware, would they consider running OS4.x inside an emulator on a fast PC? Unlikely more is they could buy a batch of cheap PC mainboards, put their own dongle firmware on it, and resell it to the OS4 community. That and I'm just waiting till we see an AmigaOne emulator built from PearPC or the like.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: AmigaOS 4: SMP & 64-bit at December!
Posted on 14-Jun-2013 15:19:35
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 10705
From: Norway

@resle

Well actually the original AmigaOS4.0 planes, was to create a kind of Amithlon for PowerPC, instead they dropped that idea (aka emulated OS on top of another OS), and that’s a good thing, it be a lot harder to implement SMP support if system was hosted on top of another OS.

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