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      /  AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware
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PosterThread
coriolis 
AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware
Posted on 22-Jul-2013 20:01:11
#1 ]
Member
Joined: 23-Dec-2011
Posts: 45
From: Moscow, Russian Federation

I think that it is very cool to have a modern multicore hardware for AmigaOS in 2013. But there is one and main question for Hyperion - without a positive response to it, new computers will be meaningless.

I mean "what is the current status of AOS4 SMP"?

Last edited by coriolis on 22-Jul-2013 at 08:05 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware
Posted on 22-Jul-2013 20:05:04
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8416
From: Unknown

@coriolis

Quote:
I mean "what is the current status of AOS4 SMP"?


When it is done.

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Boot_WB 
Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware
Posted on 22-Jul-2013 20:21:18
#3 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@coriolis

Quote:

coriolis wrote:
I mean "what is the current status of AOS4 SMP"?


It (AmigaOS 4.1 update 6 + Amiupdates to date) doesn't have any support for using multiple cores. It might have in 4.2, but that could be tomorrow, it could be when Cyrus comes out, it could be never.

"Ask Hyperion" TM

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ssolie 
Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware
Posted on 22-Jul-2013 21:10:58
#4 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2692
From: Alberta, Canada

@coriolis
Quote:
I mean "what is the current status of AOS4 SMP"?

First, I never liked calling the feature "SMP" and I prefer to call it simply multi-core support. My reason is that you always get some egghead piping up and tossing definitions around. In my opinion, users don't care if it is SMP or ASMP or WXYZ or whatever else as long as all the hardware they paid for is being utilized to run their software.

The current status is that the multi-core feature is in development. Until it is finished we will be running in single core mode on whatever hardware is available.

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ssolie 
Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware
Posted on 22-Jul-2013 21:17:48
#5 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2692
From: Alberta, Canada

@Boot_WB
Quote:

It (AmigaOS 4.1 update 6 + Amiupdates to date) doesn't have any support for using multiple cores...

That is incorrect. We have been moving to support multiple cores for some time now. For example, Forbid/Permit are annoying with multi-core so there has been an effort to remove/reduce their usage throughout the OS. Another example is the new memory subsystem which has been designed for multi-core as well. We haven't made such drastic changes for the fun of it.

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wawa 
Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware
Posted on 22-Jul-2013 21:21:14
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5714
From: Unknown

@ssolie

Quote:
First, I never liked calling the feature "SMP" and I prefer to call it simply multi-core support. My reason is that you always get some egghead piping up and tossing definitions around. In my opinion, users don't care if it is SMP or ASMP or WXYZ or whatever else as long as all the hardware they paid for is being utilized to run their software. The current status is that the multi-core feature is in development. Until it is finished we will be running in single core mode on whatever hardware is available.


ok, so to put it straight, you are telling us, that os4 multicore support in development is not going to be symmetric multiprocessing.

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eliyahu 
Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware
Posted on 22-Jul-2013 21:29:05
#7 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2010
Posts: 1726
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA)

@ssolie

so your explanation...

Quote:
First, I never liked calling the feature "SMP" and I prefer to call it simply multi-core support. My reason is that you always get some egghead piping up and tossing definitions around. In my opinion, users don't care if it is SMP or ASMP or WXYZ or whatever else as long as all the hardware they paid for is being utilized to run their software. The current status is that the multi-core feature is in development. Until it is finished we will be running in single core mode on whatever hardware is available.

... is immediately followed by:

Quote:
ok, so to put it straight, you are telling us, that os4 multicore support in development is not going to be symmetric multiprocessing.

rarely have i seen a point proven so quickly and absolutely. impressive.

-- eliyahu

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wawa 
Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware
Posted on 22-Jul-2013 21:37:32
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5714
From: Unknown

@eliyahu

true win-win situation for both sides i guess;)

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edponpon 
Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware
Posted on 22-Jul-2013 21:45:47
#9 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-May-2007
Posts: 279
From: USA, The World Police

@coriolis

In addition to the advertisements, I'd also like to point out, without great software, both commercially released and user made, to take advantage of any new hardware would be just as bad. Yea there's programs galor out there. . .but how many are AAA quality or even remotely as powerful as the Win/Mac programs? Prob only a handful. What about the great games that the Amiga was known for?

Ed

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Boot_WB 
Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware
Posted on 22-Jul-2013 21:49:05
#10 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@ssolie

Quote:

ssolie wrote:
@Boot_WB
Quote:

It (AmigaOS 4.1 update 6 + Amiupdates to date) doesn't have any support for using multiple cores...

That is incorrect. We have been moving to support multiple cores for some time now. For example, Forbid/Permit are annoying with multi-core so there has been an effort to remove/reduce their usage throughout the OS. Another example is the new memory subsystem which has been designed for multi-core as well. We haven't made such drastic changes for the fun of it.


Thanks for the clarification. Whilst acknowledging that groundwork has been laid, multiple cores are as yet unused with the current release. The furniture has been moved out of the way, but there is as yet no piano in the house.

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KimmoK 
Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware
Posted on 22-Jul-2013 22:03:08
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5045
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

It will be BMP.

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//
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wawa 
Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware
Posted on 22-Jul-2013 22:07:29
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5714
From: Unknown

@KimmoK
hope we will avoid emp though:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_electromagnetic_pulse

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Spirantho 
Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware
Posted on 22-Jul-2013 23:13:23
#13 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Jun-2004
Posts: 1044
From: Aberystwyth, Wales

@edponpon

Windows and Mac companies have resources massively larger than what we have for the Amiga. Writing a game to compete with a PC is possible, given the X1000 and RadeonHD support - but the budget would probably be equal to about the entire OS 4 budget for the next 10 years! It'd be corporate suicide.
At least with all the advancements made in OS 4 we can now port larger programs relatively easily, but the days of exclusive triple-A products for the Amiga I'm afraid is long gone.

Thankfully, we have plenty of software that covers most bases - so we're pretty lucky all things considered.

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vox 
Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware
Posted on 22-Jul-2013 23:38:21
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3725
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@edponpon

Quote:
In addition to the advertisements, I'd also like to point out, without great software, both commercially released and user made, to take advantage of any new hardware would be just as bad. Yea there's programs galor out there. . .but how many are AAA quality or even remotely as powerful as the Win/Mac programs? Prob only a handful. What about the great games that the Amiga was known for?


Simply, Hyperion is only company behind AmigaOS and a small one. These days of glory are over.
Its down to small things mostly ported from Linux and small user group developments, like Huenison.

Much bigger and well developed Linux market has about the same problem:
beside open source software there are very few titles.

To be honest I kind of like the peace of mind being able to test and play with almost
anything that comes for AmigaOS, which would be impossible for bigger platforms.

And very few OSs in development if we take Linux as kind of one OS.

If Amiga community would somehow magically became a half size of market
it was in 1994, that would change. However it took 10 years just to start developing
AmigaOS 4 when almost every company has went out. ClickBoom was last one
to try - and go out in AAA games, so Hyperion stands there as game porter.

To be honest, once OS comes to something usable (OS 4.2?) they could suprise us
with Worms, Gorky 17 and SiN they do have licenses for.

Amiga Inc promised Amiga Forever special edition for OS4, but Cloanto said they
never really funded it. There were few nice promises back in early AOS 4 days
but failed to materilize
http://www.intuitionbase.com/ossoftware.php?category=2&letter=ALL

However, new powerful hardware and mature OS and documentation will be
great achievement and provide possibility for better future. Thanks Hyperion and
partners!

Last edited by vox on 22-Jul-2013 at 11:39 PM.

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coriolis 
Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware
Posted on 23-Jul-2013 6:39:39
#15 ]
Member
Joined: 23-Dec-2011
Posts: 45
From: Moscow, Russian Federation

At the moment the main problem is the lack of professional programmers and software-development companies on the Amiga. When I say "professional" I mean "earning money".

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Dirk-B 
Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware
Posted on 23-Jul-2013 7:06:26
#16 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1180
From: Belgium

@coriolis

Well then we need first a professional SDK for AOS4.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware
Posted on 23-Jul-2013 8:33:52
#17 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1252
From: CRO

@KimmoK

It will be AMP...

BMP just recently got published, they started work on multicore support way before the QNX announced BMP... at least according to Ben Hermans, who nearly 2 years ago announced we will not need to wait 2 years to see it... ahmmm

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?%20topic_id=34171&%20forum=33&start=40#627520

Last edited by WolfToTheMoon on 23-Jul-2013 at 08:37 AM.

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tlosm 
Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware
Posted on 23-Jul-2013 8:37:33
#18 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2309
From: Amiga land

I think one of the first step have be done before the smp , is the Memory Protection and an advanced scheduler for the os4 like was "executive"for OS3, i was using this tool and was amazing.
Other things is really need to fix are:
the input device, many time i have task running in the windows and the mouse stop mooving and is impossible kill / close the tasks... only way is hard reset the machine.
Same problems during the async copy it is too much cpu consuming.
Another strange Ao4 thing is Amidok, look like this task bar is really hi cpu eat during the resizing procedures.
I think a better task scheduler will fix all this problems.

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vox 
Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware
Posted on 23-Jul-2013 8:54:44
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3725
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:
BMP just recently got published, they started work on multicore support way before the QNX announced BMP... at least according to Ben Hermans, who nearly 2 years ago announced we will not need to wait 2 years to see it... ahmmm


True, but they have made a hardware platform for that in 2 years. It would be pointless do it without it.
I also remember SMP was a original development goal for MorphOS but somewhere along the way it was quietly dropped (advancement to sandboxes).

So there we see Hyperion trying to do what is considered impossible.

Quote:
C= Amiga goes x86


That C= died, right?

Last edited by vox on 23-Jul-2013 at 08:55 AM.

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cgutjahr 
Re: AmigaOS 4 and new A-EON hardware
Posted on 23-Jul-2013 11:18:10
#20 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 807
From: Unknown

@ssolie

Quote:

First, I never liked calling the feature "SMP"

If that's true, why did you repeatedly refer to it as "SMP" yourself?

Quote:

My reason is that you always get some egghead piping up and tossing definitions around

A good way to avoid that would be to describe in layman's terms how the multicore support in OS4 is supposed to work.

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