@Vistaus

The easiest way to answer this question would be just to provide a couple hundred links to the dozens and dozens of threads in the past that have already fought over the same question, instead of rehashing the same old stuff over and over again. Why don't you try the Search function if you are really interested in viewing more of these arguments?

Although some members never tire of endlessly debating questions like this and a few others, most members are tired of this debate and would rather discuss things that are more productive.

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Amiga! The computer that inspired so many, to accomplish so much, but has ended up in the hands of . . . . . . . . . .

for me Amiga NG still Amiga.

I miss only the lack of custom chip, but xena and sam fpga are a good start for customization.
Well, the checkmark is a logo that i miss too.

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retired

Who talking about me again. :)

Let me show you an image of where I think the whole AmigaNG name came from



This was gateway machine the AmigaMCC but before it got its name it got labeled AmigaNG it was going to be x86 based and os was to be QNX based, then it got changed to Linux, then the project got scraped, but the AmigaNG name kind got stuck to label what ever future project weather it be OS or hardware the Amiga would take. After gateway sold amiga, Tao Elate Os kind of got labeled AmigaNG as that what amiga inc was telling the community the future of amiga would be, then came along a deal with hyperion to carry on with classic os developments and new ppc hardware that got labeled AmigaNG, and so as you can kind of see the so called next generation of Amiga has radically changed over the years and many feel that the unofficial alternatives that where being developed over them years Amiga inc could'nt get its act to together should be consider next gen amiga like Aros and Morpthos and I have no problem with that and I think it should be personal choice what you consider the next gen amiga is, I know a lot of people who consider BeOS was, you could even say the 3DO was with so many amiga hardware guys working on it was, it's up-to you.

Last edited by amigang on 17-Jun-2014 at 08:15 AM.

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AmigaNG, YouTube, LeaveReality Studio

Late 90's my Amiga grew to be more and more other things than "just" the HW. OS is the most important. Already with A500 I intensively used the workbench and multitasking. In 1989 I built my A2000HD and co-processors "only" helped to offload the 68k CPU.

Now, what I need the most is OS and SW to become more mature and affordable custom HW to become available.

Also, nowdays it's possible to re-create cool co-processors with FPGAs, but first things first.

UPDATE:
some 68k HW strong points:
-co-processors offload the CPU, you got more done in one second than on any other HW
-co-processors made it possible to do some things that required almost 1Ghz elsewhere
-co-processors helped to make multitasking smooth, some things happened truly in parallel
-68k was a 32bit CPU since the beginning, huge advantage vs others
-graphics did some things not possible elsewhere
-audio was way ahead of others (untill mid 90s, even then Amiga audio was better supported and more usable)
-everything was fully documented for developers (the main reason for NASA and military to use Amigas)
-HW was powerfull (even faster than competition), yet expandable (more expandable than competitors, better basic HW than on PC)
-HW was affordable to start with, even if expansions were too expensive
...

current HW:
-our HW is not as powerfull as desktop mainstream that most people are used to
-we lack the documentation to mainstream components, components that we must use as we can not afford to develop our own
-OS lacks the support to use multiple cores like original co-processors, to make more things happen truly in parallell
-HW is too expensive in low end (too complex custom designs vs volume)
-our HW is "different" (while not necessarily better), low power consumption, Telecom components (more reliable, but more expensive)

Some defects of current HW are easily fixable, some not.
(it is possible to produce cheaper HW, it is possible to outperform mainstream in documentation, etc...)

Last edited by KimmoK on 17-Jun-2014 at 12:43 PM.

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- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

Quote:

Rob wrote: What you do and don't call an Amiga is largely down to personal opinion.

That's just a load of politically correct nonsense. Things are what they are, and calling something by some other name doesn't change it into that thing. A good example is calling a Subaru a Ford. Everyone will agree that that's completely ridiculous. But do it with the Amiga, and it's perfectly fine. Make belief and pretend, that's what it is.

@Bugala

Thanks for this very long post! I definetly learned a thing or two and even agree with you on some points :)

@Xmas87

I did learn about the camps. That's why I asked it here instead of on Amiga.org because through here I learned what "bitch answers" to expect from Amiga.org

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Proud user of AmigaOS 4.1 on an AmigaONE 500. This is the first Amiga I've ever had so I don't know all the ins and outs of AmigaOS yet, so I'm sorry if I'm asking noob questions and stuff.

@amigadave

Because that's besides the point of my question. Those old debates are b/w two Amiga camps, I'm not in an Amiga camp (if ever) because I'm too new to the scene (almost a year now) to know what to call my AmigaOne500. That's why I asked it from my POV and didn't choose any side in the OP, rather than trying to stir up the two camps by starting a flamewars after choosing a side. (which is also why I asked it here rather than on Amiga.org)

Last edited by Vistaus on 17-Jun-2014 at 11:56 AM.

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Proud user of AmigaOS 4.1 on an AmigaONE 500. This is the first Amiga I've ever had so I don't know all the ins and outs of AmigaOS yet, so I'm sorry if I'm asking noob questions and stuff.

Quote:

Vistaus wrote: Those old debates are b/w two Amiga camps

The way I see it there are two camps:

1. The Amiga owners and people who are interested in Amiga related things (this includes next gen, because nextgen wouldn't exist if classic didn't exist, and is clearly a part of the Amiga universe). Everyone in this camp knows exactly what's what, and simply enjoys what they're interested in.

2. The pretenders and make-believers who desperately want to be part of the Amiga scene, but who are unable to acknowledge what Amiga is, and what Amiga related things are, and who then expect everyone to accept their pretend viewpoint, and shut up about it while they are allowed to spread their make belief nonsense.

@Vistaus

Lets keep it simple... If it runs an amiga OS (1, 2, 3 or 4) nativly it's an amiga.

AROS & Morphos are an amiga like OS, not a true Amiga OS but a 'clone'.

To me an Amiga has always been about the OS, there's reving loonies out there that would claim my old A4000 wasn't a true amiga because I added a Cyberstorm MkII 68060 and Picasso-IV to it thereby stopping it from running all software.

I even had a long argument via email with a guy who released a program that would not run on my A4000 who refused to fix his program and suggested I remove the 060 & P-IV to run it or buy an A1200, some people are just incredibly weird.

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OS4 Rocks
X1000 beta tester, Sam440 Flex (733)

Visit the Official OS4 Support Site for more help.

It may be that your sole purpose is to serve as a warning to others.

@Severin

I have a problem with "clone" here. What makes AmigaOS4 more "Amiga" than something like my "Aros Vision"? Except legal reasons that one can include "Amiga" and the other not?

@OlafS25

Quote:

What makes AmigaOS4 more "Amiga" than something like my "Aros Vision"? Except legal reasons that one can include "Amiga" and the other not?

AmigaOS 4.x is based on the original AmigaOS source code as inherited from the Commodore days. AROS is a re-implementation of the AmigaOS API written from scratch to imitate AmigaOS behaviour and functionality. Hence "a clone".

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The Rear Window blog

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

@OlafS25

The very same arguements that make AmigaOS4.x an iteration of "AmigaOS" (inheritance of prior IP, acquisition of license to use trademark) are the very same arguements that preclude calling an AmigaOne an Amiga (lack of inheritance of any prior IP, lack of acquisition of license to use tradmark).

I might like to call my rustbucket of a transit van a Ferrari (it really is a rustbucket, that's not meant as any kind of a dig), and that's my business.
If I go on a ferrari forum to ask how to go about repairing a collapsed jacking point on my 2.5l "Ferrari" Transit I suspect I'll get short shrift - and rightly so.

AmigaOS is AmigaOS, an AmigaOne is an AmigaOne, but only an Amiga is actually "an Amiga".

Are these things all part of the Amiga scene? Undeniably.

Once we start trying to blur the lines of what we can legally call things, we might as well start calling AROS AmigaOS.
After all, why not if it's open season on trademarks?

---------------

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Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

@amigadave

Quote:

The easiest way to answer this question would be just to provide a couple hundred links to the dozens and dozens of threads in the past that have already fought over the same question

No. I won't supply those. heh.

But since Trevor is well respected generally throughout the community, I'll offer this:

Quote:

Following my previous blog I received several emails asking me for information about my "Classic Reflections" series of articles in the "Amiga Future" magazine. I've been writing articles for "Amiga Future" for about 5 years now. The subjects have been many and varied and have included articles about :- WinUAE, AmiKit, Amiga Forever, iMica & Icaros Desktop together with special features like "What is an Amiga?" and even the Android OS.

Source

Perhaps people would enjoy reading what he has to say.

#6

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This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@Vistaus

Quote:

As I'm still relatively new to the scene (almost a year now!), what exactly makes AmigaNG's less Amiga? Is it because of the lack of Commodore or is it something else?

Point of view, nothing more.

Myself I have two deffinitions of "what is Amiga":

1) Broader - all compatible with Amiga software or hardware
2) Closer - Amiga branded computer powered by Amiga OS


Legaly, Amiga is only that what says Amiga.Inc (eg. Amiga Mini from Commodore USA or AmigaOne). In both cases, many people here would disagree.

@Boot_WB

Quote:

preclude calling an AmigaOne an Amiga (lack of inheritance of any prior IP, lack of acquisition of license to use tradmark).

AmigaOne brand was created in 2000 by Amiga.Inc as part of their project for the rebirth of the Amiga desktop platform.

@Boot_WB

Yes all are part of the scene and all reimplement are based on the 3.X API. I personal do not care which platform uses "original sources" and can officially call itself "Amiga" (at least partly). I only dislike "clone" because it is used negative against MorphOS or AROS.

@OlafS25

Quote:

I only dislike "clone" because it is used negative against MorphOS or AROS.

What is so negative in term clone? It is neutral at least in my native Czech language.

@pavlor

Quote:

Legaly, Amiga is only that what says Amiga.Inc

Here's where I offer you a question I hope you will take seriously.

What they did vs what they wanted to do.

If intent means anything, then how do you see Amithlon in all of this?

#6

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This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@pavlor

if you use it in the context it is used people say that AmigaOS is the only true Amiga OS. Clones are copies, imitating behavior. If not meant negative why people using it? They could say 3.X based or similar or simply not saying anything of that kind. Simply all three are successors of the 3.X API (with AmigaOS based on the original sources if that is so important to them).

@Thorham

Quote:

Thorham wrote: That's just a load of politically correct nonsense. Things are what they are, and calling something by some other name doesn't change it into that thing. A good example is calling a Subaru a Ford. Everyone will agree that that's completely ridiculous. But do it with the Amiga, and it's perfectly fine. Make belief and pretend, that's what it is.

Bad example. The Volkswagen Routan is really a Chrysler Town & Country for instance. My Jaguar X-type is basically a Ford. The Ford SHO at one time for several years had a Yamaha engine.

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Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200