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      /  R J Mical believes Android is the future & the console has had its day!
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BigD 
R J Mical believes Android is the future & the console has had its day!
Posted on 12-Jul-2014 0:26:53
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

Check this out,

YouTube GDC 2014: Google Developers Conference

He's a Google big wig now and I get that he's paid to predict the way things are going but I see that he is predicting a world where our smart TVs, tablets and laptops will all be obsolete every 2 years and In-App Purchases and in game advertising is the norm!

Next Google and their competitors will be pushing for Real Money Gaming! I really despair of the social networking always plugged in mentality of this generation. The worst case recently was when I visited the Warner Brothers Harry Potter Studio Tour. There were many school groups there and despite huge degree of stimulus around us, the amazing sets and Harry Potter trivia available, about half the teenagers were constantly glued to their smart phones. Now I know they double as cameras and I know the tour provides Digital Tour devices that look a bit like iPhones, but I suspect the need to tweet and Facebook their experiences to the world every second of every day has become endemic.

Let's hope R J Mical (who is indeed an Amiga legend) is wrong in this instance! I for one will be teaching my daughter practical computer skills and animation and not encouraging her to spend unproductive hours on social networks (he says typing on AmigaWorld doing that very thing ).

Any thoughts? The Real Money Gaming thing particularly worries me. It is being pushed as a valid avenue to monetise mobiles games! LINK see point 6.

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fishy_fis 
Re: R J Mical believes Android is the future & the console has had its day!
Posted on 12-Jul-2014 4:39:14
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 2156
From: Australia

A big wig at Google claiming their product is the future? Shock horror.

Seriously though, what a crock. Dedicated consoles have no danger of becoming extinct in the near future, and they simply dont work with such a model (look at the failure of Ouya).
Apart from x86 pcs and macs theyre the only machines capable of running certain types of very popular games, and aesthetics still sell (even if not essential).
Google/android are a fair way off being able to compete in some aspects of gaming. That more than anything else is why he'd make such claims. Negative marketting, coupled with the need to push a model Google need to be accepted, nothing more.

Last edited by fishy_fis on 12-Jul-2014 at 04:47 AM.

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amigadave 
Re: R J Mical believes Android is the future & the console has had its day!
Posted on 12-Jul-2014 7:17:02
#3 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1731
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@BigD

I agree with the original post in this thread 100%. If I had young kids today, I would not permit them to use social media more than an hour a day, if that much. In fact, I think I would discourage them from playing video games and watching TV as much as possible, and make sure they had plenty of outdoor activities to keep themselves entertained most of the time.

Too many children do not know how to entertain themselves today and are addicted to electronic entertainment being provided 24/7.

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: R J Mical believes Android is the future & the console has had its day!
Posted on 12-Jul-2014 11:28:14
#4 ]
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Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1770
From: Unknown

@fishy_fis
I agreed with you but nowadays if you count 1 +1 :
TV's becoming cheaper, thinner, more powerful... there is no need for a console placed in front of it.

M$ (XBOX), Sony (PS NOW! service will be included in TV's, available for PC's, Macs, Smartphones and so on), Apple (not yet in console business but Apple TV is rumored to get an update)...
All above work towards "cloud gaming". Like onlive.
This is the future. At best it works just with a TV alone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Now

If nintendo is not totally driven by "old non gamers" -> that's the problem they have...
They may realize that streaming from console to gamepad can also work the other way around. Means you could just sell an updated PAD which will than do the processing.

The market changes. All big players now that and while they fear that, they also provoke it by themselves with what they are developing.

Basically it is the end of "stationary" content. If those services like Playstation NOW, LG'S android TV's + Google Play + Playstation Now will have success.... well than it may be the last stationary generation. Except Nintendo... if they have luck they can compete with VTECH.

From a gamer point of view (my Gamer POV):
I have an LG and if a game is available and less expensive and providing the audio-vision-quality i like to gave.. well I buy and play it straight from my tv.
Playstation Now will fill the gap and offers VITA and PS3 games streamed over web.
Vita and PS3 library is big. Android gaming library is big as well and they fit more in the "not so much time -because i need to feed my kids - i have 2 or more jobs- GENERATION.

On the other hand... i pay more for Amiga, NES, SNES; Dreamcast stuff than my friends for PS4 or WiiU things combined...

I bought an WiiU because I have kids and thought this could be useful for the whole family but only Mario is great... seriously.. They even borked Mario Kart as well. Stupid Nintendo grandpa's... How could they force a player to finish a damn race... imagine you play a cup with for guys.. so far if one of the player was last and all other player where already behind the finishing line the race ended automatically.. they removed that. ?! The first time in the series. Morons. Just for that the game deserve no rating over 70%.

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 12-Jul-2014 at 11:29 AM.

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fishy_fis 
Re: R J Mical believes Android is the future & the console has had its day!
Posted on 12-Jul-2014 12:28:12
#5 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 2156
From: Australia

@phoenixkonsole

The thing is though, even if games are streamed from consoles theyre still running on consoles. All streaming does is adds some lag and internet costs vs. a person being in control (exchange console for pc if applicable. The sheer volume of gamers also makes it an expensive proposition for those hosting this volume of hardware. On top of this developers are most interested in developing for dedicated machines as polls of major devs shows.

The comparitive unreliabily of a streaming services is also a big issue and not many gamers would want to risk relying on an external source where having their own dedicated system does a better job.

Yes some people may use these types of things, but hardcore gamers will want the best, most practical option, not to mention the fact that dedicated machines do other things as well. On top of this physical media is important to a lot of people.

It'll take a long, long time before such a thing really takes off for anything but casual gaming, and even then it'll merely suppliment it.

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: R J Mical believes Android is the future & the console has had its day!
Posted on 12-Jul-2014 12:47:41
#6 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1770
From: Unknown

@fishy_fis
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-01-17-sony-creating-new-ps3-hardware-for-ps-now-report

As time goes by they could replace it with virtualizing technology (scaling by demand).

The fastest computer I have is placed in a datacenter. Whenever I need pure power I make use of it. So I believe in cloud computing.. but it should happen from peer to peer and not controlled by a single entitiy/company.

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Hypex 
Re: R J Mical believes Android is the future & the console has had its day!
Posted on 12-Jul-2014 13:05:41
#7 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@BigD

Quote:
I see that he is predicting a world where our smart TVs, tablets and laptops will all be obsolete every 2 years


Given they have a CPU that's not surprising. Since everything with a CPU has barely lasted two years for a long time now.

Quote:
I suspect the need to tweet and Facebook their experiences to the world every second of every day has become endemic.


Did they have any friends with them? I mean, if they do that to friends beside them that is really sad. Truly, people lack the ability to live in the moment. We live in a world where people want to record and document everything. I used to envy people with video cameras and still cameras to record their life but now I think it prevents you from living in the moment and just gives you more junk to store and organise. I've said lots of classic comments and made hilarious quips but I haven't written them down. They belong to the moment from whence it happened live, with no pre-meditation, and fully spontaneous.

As to Real Money Gaming. Well didn't that start in the arcades? Then migrate to games like WoW needing paid membership? And avoid loss of finances to piracy. Pokie machines for people who are happy sink in money for games that are slow to catch up to 3d. And online gambling/poker.

Last edited by Hypex on 12-Jul-2014 at 01:08 PM.

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BigD 
Re: R J Mical believes Android is the future & the console has had its day!
Posted on 12-Jul-2014 13:09:47
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@Hypex

Quote:
And online gambling/poker.


That's the thing, we are approaching a period of time where gambling is going to fused with computer games if the legislators aren't on the ball.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

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Hypex 
Re: R J Mical believes Android is the future & the console has had its day!
Posted on 12-Jul-2014 13:16:11
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@fishy_fis

Quote:
Dedicated consoles have no danger of becoming extinct in the near future


But what ones are dedicated these days? The latest ones are just PCs in a box. And just like a PC or Mac can become extinct. They're not special anymore. Except for special firmware. Didn't take long to "hack" an OSX DVD to boot on a PC. How long till modern console games are hacked?

Last edited by Hypex on 12-Jul-2014 at 03:32 PM.

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Hypex 
Re: R J Mical believes Android is the future & the console has had its day!
Posted on 12-Jul-2014 13:18:09
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@amigadave

Quote:
Too many children do not know how to entertain themselves today


And to think. It wasn't so long ago that we wanted kids to avoid that.

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fishy_fis 
Re: R J Mical believes Android is the future & the console has had its day!
Posted on 12-Jul-2014 14:00:06
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 2156
From: Australia

@Hypex

Dedicated in this context being standalone/dedicated to a task (eg. dedicated gaming pc, dedicated AROS box, dedicated emu box, etc.). Perhaps you're confusing dedicated for custom?

Even though the current consoles are heavily based on pc gear these days though, theyre still designed with media/gaming in mind. Streamlined OSes, gaming cenrted design (gddr5, fast ram buffer, optimised i/o, etc.). You cant buy these particular apus for a pc. Not to suggest theyre more powerful than pcs for gaming, but a pc based on their nearest equivalent doesnt have the same sort of gaming performance.
The original xbox is a great parallel. Equally pc like, but to this day still not emulated, nor is there any sort of virtualization for software to run,

Backtracking a little, one of the biggest obstacles of the proposed idea is simple flexibility. Lots of people are interested in multiple systems and like to play them on a big, elaborate tv. If gaming hardware is built into a tv, then its an expensive, impractical proposition for most consumers., regardless of tv prices dropping. Who wants to buy multiple 60 inch tvs for example, or replace it just because a new game they want to play comes out.

Last edited by fishy_fis on 12-Jul-2014 at 02:11 PM.
Last edited by fishy_fis on 12-Jul-2014 at 02:04 PM.

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retro 
Re: R J Mical believes Android is the future & the console has had its day!
Posted on 12-Jul-2014 14:25:53
#12 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Dec-2003
Posts: 1049
From: Unknown

i dont think he is 100 % right its not the end of the consol area.
ps4 is nothing more then a pc with sudan standars. i think ps5 will come alot ealy'er then usual.. it will not take 7 years betwin ps consols maby 4 years now..

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Overflow 
Re: R J Mical believes Android is the future & the console has had its day!
Posted on 12-Jul-2014 15:12:15
#13 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1628
From: Norway

Consoles are meh. They served their purpose, but since they are now branching towards the same hardware as the standard stationary pc.
In the coming years I think the game platforms are going to be either stationary PCs or pads/mobile medias like ipad, android/windows versions of pads.

I see the kids today are more than happy to play with their mobile phones and pads.
Hardcore gamers enjoy the immense power the stationary PCs can bring to bear, but now you can get ultrabooks from Asus/Razer that can reasonably well play todays top titles.
Hell, even Surface from Microsoft can do that.

I dont really see where consoles fit in all of this. Not mobile and not very expandable. It falls between two chairs. My Playstation 3 sits in the livingroom, but tbh Its barely being used.

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fishy_fis 
Re: R J Mical believes Android is the future & the console has had its day!
Posted on 12-Jul-2014 15:40:50
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 2156
From: Australia

@Overflow

While I agree with you from a perspective of pure logic, sales of the new consoles suggest millins of people dont really care. The uptake of ps4 and xboxone is no slower (even aster) than previous generations. Theyre still by far the dominant force for big, elaborate games.

Millins = millions, aster = faster (damn phone made it nigh on impossible to correct typos within above text.)

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Hypex 
Re: R J Mical believes Android is the future & the console has had its day!
Posted on 12-Jul-2014 15:43:18
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@fishy_fis

Quote:
Perhaps you're confusing dedicated for custom?


Not that I know of. My point was it's all the same underlying hardware. An x86-64 mobo under the hood. Sure it may be dedicated to a task but companies these days are lazy reagrding hardware. They're like fabless chip makers. They just just get someone else to do the hardware.

Unfortunately the same has fallen on the Amuga community. Hardware that is picked but not exactly designed for us. Even if it isn't another clone.

Quote:
Who wants to buy multiple 60 inch tvs for example, or replace it just because a new game they want to play comes out.


Not many at that size. But ten years ago you could play Tertis on a TV. What do TVs do now, Angry Worms?

I don't see the point of a large 60" TV. Unless I'm missing something the larger a digital screen you have, the less HD there is and the more pixel chunkyness. Unless they are doung something special a TV that size will make HD look like low res!

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fishy_fis 
Re: R J Mical believes Android is the future & the console has had its day!
Posted on 12-Jul-2014 16:35:07
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 2156
From: Australia

@Hypex.

Im talking about definition of the word "dedicated", It doesnt mean unique as you alluded to when you questioned me using the word (ie. you responding saying theyre very pc like, which is true, but doesnt stop them being dedicated gaming machines).

TV size wasnt exactly the point. Needing multiple tvs for the different gaming hardware was. Most people have a main big tv. If hardware is built into tvs, then it's inflexible and impractical.

Sidebar, but seeing as you bought it up, not heard of 4k ? Its not exactly new. 60 inch is probably smallest size to really make it worthwhile (4x fullhd/3840x2160). Even fullhd (1920*1080) looks fine at 60 inch though. It's only the cheapo displays they call hd, but really arent (1366*768, etc) that look chunky at larger sizes, but thats due to downscaling from hd as much as anything)

Last edited by fishy_fis on 12-Jul-2014 at 04:46 PM.
Last edited by fishy_fis on 12-Jul-2014 at 04:38 PM.

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: R J Mical believes Android is the future & the console has had its day!
Posted on 12-Jul-2014 19:46:59
#17 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1770
From: Unknown

@fishy_fis
Replacing TV is not needed because of "streaming".
All big players are working on that. Nintendo did in the 90's some experiments with gaining over satellite...

The good thing:
The server side is the only thing which needs to be updated to stay state of the art.

You don't need more than a TV. If you TV doesn't handle... ok just plug a android stick into it and you are done.

The original XBOX is not worth to be emulated (i am biased by dreamcast and gamecube)... but hey you can play Halo XBOX with an interpreter and Turok with this http://shogun3d-cxbx.blogspot.de

: )

The only reason to by a console are "exlucsive" titles. But Sony and the others are giving up on that by working towards cloud gaming.

You could reduce the "console" to a HDMI-Stick which can be carried to friends.
Or just logIN on a friends TV ; )

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Trixie 
Re: R J Mical believes Android is the future & the console has had its day!
Posted on 12-Jul-2014 20:34:47
#18 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 2089
From: Czech Republic

@BigD

Quote:
He's a Google big wig now and I get that he's paid to predict the way things are going

Well if RJ's Google predictions are as 'visionary' as his Intuition (the most f*ucked up component in AmigaOS), I'm not too sure I'm very interested.

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fishy_fis 
Re: R J Mical believes Android is the future & the console has had its day!
Posted on 13-Jul-2014 2:33:51
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 2156
From: Australia

@phoenixkonsole

I already covered why streaming content for big, major titles isnt ideal. It was you that mentioned hardware being built into tvs. Either way its re-inventing the wheel at a loss to quality.
Simply saying, "its not worth it to emulate the original xbox" hardly addresses my point either. The simple fact is besides the consoles pc like hardware it doesnt mean its easy to get software developed for them to run (Hypex questioned how long it'd be before you could run ps4/xbone titles on a pc). While not the point, itd be absolutely worth it to emulate original XBox anyway. There's some great exclusive titles, as well as having best versions of some multiplatform titles.
Also there's never been a suggestion from Sony, MS, etc. that theyre giving up on the dedicated console model. The streamed content is just an additional option.

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Hypex 
Re: R J Mical believes Android is the future & the console has had its day!
Posted on 13-Jul-2014 15:28:01
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@fishy_fis

Quote:
It doesnt mean unique as you alluded to when you questioned me using the word


I know that. But I was questioning the hardware more so than I was you. By using x86 the hardware it isn't so exclusive anymore and will go out of date as fast as similar spec'ed hardware in a PC. The only thing holding it in place is that being dedicated in the "custom" box it comes in gives it a greater life expectancy than the avergae PC which could end up on the street.

Quote:
TV size wasnt exactly the point.


I know. Haven't you seen me ramble before?

Quote:
Sidebar, but seeing as you bought it up, not heard of 4k


I have but you don't have 4K in the [obsolete] Full HD TV I am thinking of.

But since you mentioned it 4K won't help in my home town. For one thing HD was made a big deal of, then they dropped it back to SD and brought in all these 24/7 ad channels. Only a few do 1080i even around here, not the major channels, and some shows predate SD! So even in full HD with a progressive screen they are still sending interlace down the line!

4K is just as bad for Blu-ray now, thae latest and greatest video format, which is now obsolete and chunky low res. Like playing a DVD on a Full HD TV. Sure you can do it, but a modern TV should be like a computer LCD; it shouldn't be upscaled or scaled at all, it should be native. That's the price of digital for perfect reproduction. I'm way off topic so enough of my rambling on.

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