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PosterThread
PR 
Re: Deluxe Paint V 'Set Frame Palette': How do you use this 'New' Feature?
Posted on 2-Dec-2017 13:52:14
#41 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2004
Posts: 1961
From: Suomi-Finland

@BigD

Can it be seen?

DPVI , A1200 with the Bells and Whistles, PIV for PPaint, A1 for.. OK.

Pc for the Youtube..

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Hypex 
Re: Deluxe Paint V 'Set Frame Palette': How do you use this 'New' Feature?
Posted on 2-Dec-2017 14:21:46
#42 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@BigD

Quote:
It saves to an .AVI file which can be easily converted to a .MOV. I assume this is a lossless conversation process?


I don't know. You would need to check the settings and if MOV has lossless codecs. What I find with video converters of any kind is they like to repack the video. So you tell it to convert an MPEG stream from one container to another where it doesn't need to touch the video but it still wants to unpack it and repack it again, reducing quality like a tape copy, and wasting time.

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BigD 
Re: Deluxe Paint V 'Set Frame Palette': How do you use this 'New' Feature?
Posted on 2-Dec-2017 17:11:45
#43 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@PR

It needs to have its debut in the 'real' world as it's kind of a tribute and then I may upload it after that. I'll let you know

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

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PR 
Re: Deluxe Paint V 'Set Frame Palette': How do you use this 'New' Feature?
Posted on 2-Dec-2017 19:31:21
#44 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2004
Posts: 1961
From: Suomi-Finland

@BigD

Uploaded in AmigaFuture CD our animations. (123 was it? Car Crash etc)

My donations. Have fun.

Maybe we have too..

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BigD 
Re: Deluxe Paint V 'Set Frame Palette': How do you use this 'New' Feature?
Posted on 11-Dec-2017 22:05:27
#45 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@Thread

Dreams on the PS4 from Media Molecule is shaping up amazingly well and might even allow Jim Henson/Pixar style animations simply by setting up 'action record' points and moving the characters as if playing a game! That looks well worth messing around with and it seems to be in the spirit of the Amiga's creative and fun appeal and of DPaint/Lightwave in particular. It even has the equivalent of GarageBand built in for sound editing! I loved MTV Music Generator 2 on the PS2 and this has all the sound creation potential of that 'game' plus game creation/animation tools!

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2017/12/11/psx-2017-dreams-is-beautiful-complicated-and-has-endless-potential

I don't think I'd ever stop using Deluxe Paint but it's great to experiment with other mediums and programs to add different aesthetics to projects.

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BigD 
Re: Deluxe Paint V 'Set Frame Palette': How do you use this 'New' Feature?
Posted on 15-Dec-2017 15:02:44
#46 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@Thread

My quote:

Quote:
Interestingly I had to reduce the palette to 128 colours for the Swap Page technique for generating the scrolling background otherwise I ran out of memory! It's a shame that an 8Mb AGA Chip Memory model was never released or alternatively Deluxe Paint made to be RTG compatible. This would have solved that chip memory shortage issue


Would Brilliance handle this lack of chip memory issue for 256 colour animations better than DPaint V? Also, how fast and practical is the True Brilliance package animating in 24bit/Ham8?

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number6 
Re: Deluxe Paint V 'Set Frame Palette': How do you use this 'New' Feature?
Posted on 15-Dec-2017 15:47:06
#47 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@BigD

How fast would depend upon screen size/data.

On a warpengine 40 040 True Brilliance would NOT achieve 30 fps in 640x400 Ham8 (HiRes Laced. 640×400 NTSC).

Maybe that will help you gauge what you need.

#6

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BigD 
Re: Deluxe Paint V 'Set Frame Palette': How do you use this 'New' Feature?
Posted on 15-Dec-2017 16:49:57
#48 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@number6

Would a 060/50 Mhz achieve 30fps on True Brilliance? Would a Ham8 animation still be exported as an ANIM file which could be converted to an .AVI with AnimWebConverter?

More importantly would you run out of chip memory like I experienced with 256 colours at 640 x 512 (Hi-Res Laced PAL) on DPaint V. It was basically impossible to get the background to scroll or to use the light table unless I reduced the animation to 128 colours on DPaint to free up some chip memory!! I'd be keen to avoid those limitations and maybe Brilliance is the answer!

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number6 
Re: Deluxe Paint V 'Set Frame Palette': How do you use this 'New' Feature?
Posted on 15-Dec-2017 17:46:30
#49 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@BigD

Quote:
Would a 060/50 Mhz achieve 30fps on True Brilliance?


My comment above was on a somewhat worse case scenario of digitized data animated. Something simpler should run at 30 fps with the mentioned 040.

Many of us experienced something similar when .mp3 became popular and we had to make certain concessions as to "quality" in our .mp3 players when using an 040 or less.
Everything I read afterwards indicates that the 060 made a huge difference and no longer did quality changes have to be made.
In the case of video then, having an 060 might well accomodate my worse case scenario, since it does get very close with the aforementioned 040.

Quote:
Would a Ham8 animation still be exported as an ANIM file which could be converted to an .AVI with AnimWebConverter?


Yes, you can save a Ham8 animation from True Brilliance.
At a glance it seems you would be better off using a 24bit animation player and then converting to .avi, as opposed to converting a ham8 palette anim into 24 bit .avi.
I'd consider that a quality downgrade, but you may feel otherwise once you view your finished product.

I never experienced memory issues even with True Brilliance in ham8 mode, but you may be using features that do stress memory, so I can't say you wouldn't have issues.

#6

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number6 
Re: Deluxe Paint V 'Set Frame Palette': How do you use this 'New' Feature?
Posted on 15-Dec-2017 18:57:11
#50 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@BigD

I forgot to ask...are you saving in/converting to the faster Anim7 format?

#6

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BigD 
Re: Deluxe Paint V 'Set Frame Palette': How do you use this 'New' Feature?
Posted on 15-Dec-2017 20:16:54
#51 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@number6

No, just the standard ANIM file that DPaint V is saving. I'm not really struggling with the FPS of the animation playback on the Amiga to be honest. I'd rather create a high colour output without chip memory issues, convert it to AVI or MOV and get the desired FPS using iMovie on my Mac if need be. That works quite well especially as syncing with audio has been quite important on my current project. It's just that 128 colours look disappointing for my scrolling background sections and I wondered if Brilliance is more efficient with chip memory to allow a scrolling 256 colour background?

Last edited by BigD on 15-Dec-2017 at 08:17 PM.

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PR 
Re: Deluxe Paint V 'Set Frame Palette': How do you use this 'New' Feature?
Posted on 15-Dec-2017 20:23:53
#52 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2004
Posts: 1961
From: Suomi-Finland

Using this with a CF card from A1200 DPVI to pc multireader.


http://pulkomandy.tk/projects/GrafX2

For printing.

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number6 
Re: Deluxe Paint V 'Set Frame Palette': How do you use this 'New' Feature?
Posted on 15-Dec-2017 20:24:05
#53 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@BigD

If you have the commercial program AdPro you can certainly composite your anim with a moving 24 bit background by using the Frame Editor (FRED).
This assumes you can create the 2 pieces seperately.

Anyway, my question about using Anim_7 longword compression was in relation to you talking about using Ham8 as an option. This would speed things up regardless of processor.

#6

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BigD 
Re: Deluxe Paint V 'Set Frame Palette': How do you use this 'New' Feature?
Posted on 16-Dec-2017 0:09:24
#54 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@number6

Well, whatever the best tool is for my scrolling background task I've got Brilliance 2 up and running and it really is a joy to use! I've used it for a clean up task which I've been meaning to do as the first part of my animation had a few errors. It was ideal for the task and what would have been laborious on DPaint V was a breeze on Brilliance You can just tell it has been highly optismised for the Amiga's custom chips and screen modes and I'm sure it probably utilises chip memory far more efficiently than DPaint too. Great! No wonder it was used for late AGA games like Banshee

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BigD 
Re: Deluxe Paint V 'Set Frame Palette': How do you use this 'New' Feature?
Posted on 16-Dec-2017 0:54:15
#55 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@Thread

The only problem was there were multiple choices for the output and I chose 'Byte' (the default). AnimWebConverter didn't seem to like it though and generated blurred frames with extra artifacts as the frames seemed to be blurred together!! I had to import the Anim back into DPaint and export it again to get round this!

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number6 
Re: Deluxe Paint V 'Set Frame Palette': How do you use this 'New' Feature?
Posted on 16-Dec-2017 14:09:47
#56 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@BigD

Faster and easier than using DPaint no doubt. Brilliance 2 was merely late to the party. Amiga was already in steep decline at its release and therefore did not attain the acclaim of its excellent predecessor.

Quote:
The only problem was there were multiple choices for the output and I chose 'Byte' (the default).


Just trying to follow you through this process. heh.

Are you referring to animation saving with Brilliance 2 with the above comment?

And does this mean you are trying to do the entire anim through Brillance 2 with Ham8 output now?

#6

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BigD 
Re: Deluxe Paint V 'Set Frame Palette': How do you use this 'New' Feature?
Posted on 16-Dec-2017 14:30:40
#57 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@number6

From the Brilliance Manual:

Quote:
Brilliance ean save your animation as either an 0p-5, 0p-8 WORD, or 0p-8 LONG formatted file. Op-5 is supported by many older Amiga software packages. Unless you need compatibility with older Amiga software. we recommend that you save your animation files in one of the Op-8 formats.


So I tried Brilliance to 'clean up' my first scene of my animation and exported as the Op-5 option to retain compatibility (also labelled as 'Byte' rather confusingly). However, the AnimWebConverter program didn't like it and the frames had artifacts as if the frames had been blurred with the previous frame! I found that once the Brilliance ANIM file had been imported into DPaint V and saved as a new ANIM file, AnimWebConverter had no problem with the file! Very odd! Almost as if AnimWebConverter expects a standard DPaint ANIM file and Brilliance deviates from this slightly!!!

Last edited by BigD on 16-Dec-2017 at 02:32 PM.

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number6 
Re: Deluxe Paint V 'Set Frame Palette': How do you use this 'New' Feature?
Posted on 16-Dec-2017 14:50:14
#58 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@BigD

I hate to be vague, but again...at this point in time there were many unfortunate changes going on that affected 3rd party software.
AdPro was pushing opcode8 and it was included as an option in later versions of AdPro. However, it was buggy in certain instances.

Longword flaw annotated

In addition, the format for "palette" changed during this period, which could well be an issue you saw earlier by trying to load a saved palette from one program into another.

It is "possible" you ran into one of these issues that required your backtrack into resaving through DPaint.

Regardless of whether you want to view your anim as an .avi only? you might find this program useful for experimenting with anim playback speed and conversion to other formats.

http://aminet.net/search?query=mainactor
You'll need: http://aminet.net/gfx/edit/MainActor1_55.lha
And: http://aminet.net/gfx/edit/MActr_Update.lha

This should allow you to convert your anim to Anim_7 Longword, in case you want to time/test playback speed vs Anim5 compatibility format.
It also saves in .avi, but without knowing details of your work, I can't say it will work for you.

Nevertheless, a useful program to have for future experimentation on your part.

#6

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BigD 
Re: Deluxe Paint V 'Set Frame Palette': How do you use this 'New' Feature?
Posted on 16-Dec-2017 15:36:15
#59 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@number6

Thank you very much. I'll check AdPro/MainActor out! I will probably prioritise experimentation with HAM8/True Brilliance animation and see how viable it is on my machine. Since my current project is for fun the drop in quality of the 128 colour scenes isn't as important as if they were for a professional project, but it's good to know there are probably other ways to achieve a higher quality result!

Last edited by BigD on 16-Dec-2017 at 03:39 PM.

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BigD 
Deluxe Paint V Animation Finished!
Posted on 10-Jun-2018 21:34:58
#60 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@PR & all Amiga Animation fans

My Deluxe Paint V animation has been uploaded to YouTube and can be viewed...

... HERE

Enjoy

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