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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  How would the future dual core support work on OS4 ?
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Metalheart 
How would the future dual core support work on OS4 ?
Posted on 18-Nov-2014 17:34:20
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2969
From: Somewhere in the Dutch mountains....

I was encoding CD's to MP3 using ADripper and checking tags using Musictagger but wasnt realy satisfied with it, the tags dont seem to be 100 % correct (or rather to my liking) and editing them is quite a pain (for example a blank year isnt possible, it just says '0')
Also I found ripping quite slow.

But that aside....

I found some programs for my WinPC, one of them for ripping and encoding CD's.

I works like this:
-When inserting a CD, all tags are found on the internet including album art and it it is possible to select another one if it is not your liking
-It reads a track from the CD, when thats finished it starts encoding using the first core of the CPUs, at the same reading the next track
-Then it starts encoding that track using the second core, at the same time as the first track being encoded by the first core. And at the same time reading the next track.

And so on, and on...
I think that works great ! Encoding two tracks at the same time, each on a different core.
Now I'm getting to the point here
With al discussions and explanations about how OS4 will use more core's (SMP, AMP, EMP or whatever) I'm a little lost about this and was wondering how multiple core support would work on OS4.
Using the same example I gave about ripping tracks from CD

Thanks all.

Martin

Last edited by Metalheart on 18-Nov-2014 at 05:37 PM.

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broadblues 
Re: How would the future dual core support work on OS4 ?
Posted on 18-Nov-2014 18:31:41
#2 ]
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Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4446
From: Portsmouth England

@Metalheart

Both cores would sit at opposite sides of the computer blowing raspberries at each other till one gives up and encodes the mp3 all by itself in a bit of grumpy mood because it's freind ids't helping.


Until we have more info we can't anything useful more than the above (which, for the hard of humour, is a joke).

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Metalheart 
Re: How would the future dual core support work on OS4 ?
Posted on 18-Nov-2014 18:48:02
#3 ]
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Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2969
From: Somewhere in the Dutch mountains....

@broadblues

I got it, the joke dont worry

I was just wondering, and it might be a nice speculation subject, and also hoping for some input from the Hyperion guys

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Spectre660 
Re: How would the future dual core support work on OS4 ?
Posted on 18-Nov-2014 19:04:38
#4 ]
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Joined: 4-Jun-2005
Posts: 3918
From: Unknown

@Metalheart

Have a listen to Steve Sollie's last two AmiWest presentations.

Edit: I think the 2013 presentation he answered a few questions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUbdN8UCCYQ

Last edited by Spectre660 on 18-Nov-2014 at 07:45 PM.
Last edited by Spectre660 on 18-Nov-2014 at 07:10 PM.

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broadblues 
Re: How would the future dual core support work on OS4 ?
Posted on 18-Nov-2014 19:07:54
#5 ]
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Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4446
From: Portsmouth England

@Metalheart

Quote:

I got it, the joke dont worry


Phew! But I wasn't really worrying about you in particular not getting the joke Just some of those out there who take our hobby too seriously.

As to speculation, we might as well speculate on the length of string. We've nothing but the idea that multiple cores will be supported at the moment.

More than one core means more than one thing at once, certainly more useful that blowing raspberries but I'm not going to speculate on the format as I haven't even heard a rumour that I couldn't tell you about.

I think given the imminent release of 4.1 FE "official" comenting on features of 4.2 is unlikely as it would undermine sales (there some "internet law" about that kind of thing I think).

Last edited by broadblues on 18-Nov-2014 at 07:09 PM.

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retro 
Re: How would the future dual core support work on OS4 ?
Posted on 18-Nov-2014 19:20:37
#6 ]
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Joined: 16-Dec-2003
Posts: 1049
From: Unknown

@broadblues
hmm the quistion is not how does it work with duel but how or does ot work with qoard core or more. hehehe....does it gonna suport multiply suport, i mean can it suport 2 diffrent kind of cpu like classics can, 68k and ppc via warp..
i mean the xzorro is not a ppc or does that react like a pice of eletronic insted and not like a cpu....

will it work iff i stuff a pci or pci-e card with some ppc or power cpu, i have seen even valerys? have ppc accralator cards. will it be posible to use them ??

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Deniil715 
Re: How would the future dual core support work on OS4 ?
Posted on 18-Nov-2014 20:06:38
#7 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 4236
From: Sweden

@Metalheart

CD-ripping is slow because reading an audio-CD is very slow, on the X1000 at least. I can hardly *play* an mp3 from a data DVD I have burned because it read so slow and has to wait for complete spinup or something every access. Quite useless for some reason. Can't seem to burn anywhere near full speed either...

Anyway, try CodeAudio for CD-ripping, it might make better tags for you, and at least let's you edit them before ripping. (Use the wizard.)

About multicore: The CD-ripper on Windows does not start one encoding on one code, then the next encoding on the second core etc. It simply starts as many processes as it finds cores in the machine. Windows will then schedule whatever work to whatever core is free at the moment. If you look in the resource manager you can see the work being distributed evenly across all cores, even if only one process is running. That's how Windows works. How Linux works, and AmigaOS will work, I don't know.

Last edited by Deniil715 on 18-Nov-2014 at 08:13 PM.

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Metalheart 
Re: How would the future dual core support work on OS4 ?
Posted on 18-Nov-2014 20:10:39
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2969
From: Somewhere in the Dutch mountains....

@Deniil715

Yes CodeAudio, Ill try that, but with slow ripping I meant ofcourse also slow encoding.
Atleast compared to my PC.

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Prober 
Re: How would the future dual core support work on OS4 ?
Posted on 18-Nov-2014 20:43:30
#9 ]
Member
Joined: 2-Aug-2005
Posts: 44
From: Czech Republic

Future dual core support on OS4 for CD ripping? Dual core = only X1000 or X5000, nothing else. For that money?

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DC_Edge 
Re: How would the future dual core support work on OS4 ?
Posted on 18-Nov-2014 20:53:35
#10 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 1-Oct-2003
Posts: 190
From: France

@Prober

It may be that in a middle future, there will be low end dual core A-PPC machines?
Just it needs that dual core thing.

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Prober 
Re: How would the future dual core support work on OS4 ?
Posted on 18-Nov-2014 21:13:08
#11 ]
Member
Joined: 2-Aug-2005
Posts: 44
From: Czech Republic

@DC_Edge

Your optimism left me many years ago

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Spirantho 
Re: How would the future dual core support work on OS4 ?
Posted on 18-Nov-2014 22:04:43
#12 ]
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Joined: 4-Jun-2004
Posts: 1044
From: Aberystwyth, Wales

@Deniil715

That's really odd. On my X1000 (which I believe has the standard DVD-RW drive AmigaKit always use) I can rip CDs really fast - doesn't take long at all to rip an entire CD.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: How would the future dual core support work on OS4 ?
Posted on 18-Nov-2014 22:10:09
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12795
From: Norway

@Deniil715

“.devices” are not optimized for spinning disks, that’s what I found out with Mplayer, If file system is asked to read 1 byte it will most likely ask to read 1 block and buffer it, but to find that block the file system has spin to correct location on disc. So if file system never request more then 1 block the device will use most of its time spinning the disk, not reading from it.
I think it be possible to make cache device, so that devices that do not cache be cached.

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tonyw 
Re: How would the future dual core support work on OS4 ?
Posted on 18-Nov-2014 22:33:20
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3240
From: Sydney (of course)

A lot depends on the drive, too. I have two CD/DVD drives on my X-1000, a SATA drive connected to the on-board SATA port and an IDE drive connected to the on-board IDE port.

Originally I installed only the SATA drive, but I found that, when playing an audio CD, the drive would spin up to top speed, load a bunch of data, spin down while the data was playing, then spin up again, etc. Most annoying.

I must have a dozen SATA drives hanging around here all counted, all bought at different times from different flea markets. I found the same problem on one of the SAMs (forget which one).

So I installed an old IDE drive as well, and that drive runs at a constant (normal) speed whilst playing audio CDs.

I know that the device drivers use the same code, so the up/down fast/slow problem of the SATA drive is not caused by software - it's the drive.


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zzd10h 
Re: How would the future dual core support work on OS4 ?
Posted on 18-Nov-2014 23:05:40
#15 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 21-May-2012
Posts: 1077
From: France

@Metalheart

"checking tags using Musictagger but wasnt realy satisfied with it, the tags dont seem to be 100 % correct (or rather to my liking) and editing them is quite a pain (for example a blank year isnt possible, it just says '0')"

Sorry to make shameful advertisement for one of my program, but you could try aTunes to check/edit tags and CoverArt of your MP3/M4A/FLAC (in AMIStore/zTools)!
It allows, for example, to blank the year tags.

http://zzd10h.amiga-ng.org/AMIStore/Screenshots/06_zTools_Screenshot.JPG

Last edited by zzd10h on 18-Nov-2014 at 11:12 PM.

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Metalheart 
Re: How would the future dual core support work on OS4 ?
Posted on 18-Nov-2014 23:13:56
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2969
From: Somewhere in the Dutch mountains....

@zzd10h

Looks nice ! Will give it a look.

btw, I'm quite a perfectionist regarding MP3 naming and tagging, so please dont take my critism on musictagger and adripper the wrong way.
They are both good programs !

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agami 
Re: How would the future dual core support work on OS4 ?
Posted on 18-Nov-2014 23:32:50
#17 ]
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Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1637
From: Melbourne, Australia

@thread

What is this 'CD' everyone is talking about? And why would you need to 'rip' one?

Anyway, there is many different things that can be done in the OS [4.x] to make "ripping" of "CDs" faster. And exactly what will be done and by when is a contemplation conversation I only have in front of a roaring fire and a glass of XO Cognac.

The first thing the OS needs to do is make any and all CPU cores addressable by applications. It's the least fancy thing and it puts the onus on the app developer to figure out how to best use it.

To get from that to some intelligent and transparent schedular, well that's a lot of 'future'. Which is kind of moot because by that time all CDs ever made will already be ripped.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: How would the future dual core support work on OS4 ?
Posted on 18-Nov-2014 23:48:50
#18 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12795
From: Norway

@agami

>What is this 'CD' everyone is talking about?

You can't insert music CD's into MP3 players, like this one.



MP3 files are lot more convenient, there are many car radios that accepts USB pens.



And why would you need to 'rip' one?

You can download Music if you wont to using "illegal" applications, or you can convert the music you already own to MP3, this is what is called ripping.

Also CD's get scratches and get damaged, storing music on hd or usb stick is lot more durable.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 19-Nov-2014 at 12:00 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 18-Nov-2014 at 11:59 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 18-Nov-2014 at 11:58 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 18-Nov-2014 at 11:58 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 18-Nov-2014 at 11:55 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 18-Nov-2014 at 11:49 PM.

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Metalheart 
Re: How would the future dual core support work on OS4 ?
Posted on 18-Nov-2014 23:55:36
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2969
From: Somewhere in the Dutch mountains....

Ya, well.... Anyone remember using cassette tapes in a sony walkman ?

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Metalheart 
Re: How would the future dual core support work on OS4 ?
Posted on 19-Nov-2014 0:12:44
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2969
From: Somewhere in the Dutch mountains....

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
Also CD's get scratches and get damaged, storing music on hd or usb stick is lot more durable.


Yeah, well thats an entirely different discussion A CD is more resistent agains water damage, EMP, static, electronic component failure etc.... oh, and theft The chances of someone steeling my CD collection is smaller then someone steeling my computer / Ipod / mediaplayer / NAS
Also there is bitrot....

Anyway I ripped my complete CD collection to HD with a backup on SATA HD, external USB HD, NAS and keep my HD backup disk not at my home in case of fire

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