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      /  Amos - the route to programming mastery!
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deadwood 
Re: Amos - the route to programming mastery!
Posted on 23-Nov-2014 6:12:11
#21 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Nov-2008
Posts: 452
From: Unknown

@Dandelion

The route to programming mastery is quite different. Get a job, even an entry one, with a company that has good programmers and learn from their feedback. Whatever you will learn on your own is pretty small compared to what you learn when working with other experienced people, because this way you will be learning on their mistakes. Two conditions need to be met though: the engineers need to be good and company has to have a culture that support things like code review.

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Bugala 
Re: Amos - the route to programming mastery!
Posted on 23-Nov-2014 9:14:31
#22 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2007
Posts: 649
From: Finland

@Dandelion

Quote:
still help you learn to think like a programmer...through breaking a program down into functions, using different control structures etc but within a context that provides easy access to the blitter, graphics etc.


Sounds a lot like Hollywood for me what you would be looking for actually.

It would be good if Severin would point out more clearly why he isnt recommending Hollywood, so you could make decision better.

But from that quote it sounded a lot like you would be looking for Hollywood actaully, except for the blitter part, since Hollywood uses modern graphics and ways to produce them

To help a bit more in searching about it, it might help you to know that Hollywood is LUA based language. Therefore, whatever shortages LUA has, Hollywood probably has too. And naturally the advances too.

One big plus about Hollywood to me myself is that you can compile the code to different platforms, like all Amigas, PC, Mac, even Android. Hence I can still feel like I am doing something for Amiga, although at same time I also get the PC exe, which is probably more useful in reality.

But so the strong and weak points about Hollywood in fun and mastering programming.

I describe it as C-type language (although it seems severin might think it as basic?)

Hence it uses C-type language things, like Functions.

Hollywood is very forgiving language. You can set A="name" and then next line A=1m and third line A={table}, and there is no problem with it. This makes for the fun, but for mastering part this might not be good, since C++ is very unforgiving for example, you make INT A and then you put A="name" and it reports error (if i correctly remember C++).

On top of that you can use variable=1 and then print(VaRiAbLe) and it works. with C++, you would again get an error. Same with any function and command names, that capital letters dont matter.

Hollywood doesnt have classes, but you can emulate classes with Hollywood close enough. Heres the first link i could find using google with "LUA classes tutorial": http://lua-users.org/wiki/ObjectOrientationTutorial

Hollywood neither is Object Oriented language, hence that is missing too. But refer to above link again.

It also has some Amos kind of things like that you are able to put stuff to screen with basically one line only (well, actually two, since you need to load the graphic, or create one first), and there are lots of other quick approaches to do things, while at same time it still gives you the possibility of doing things more complex way, like making our own functions to do same things it is already doing, but your own way.

If i correctly remember, you can put C or C++ (dont remember which one) in middle of Hollywood program, but this i might remember wrong.


As last thing I like to point out that I am not hardcore programmer. My route have went from Easy Amos to Blitz Basic, to some small programming with Java, javascript, python, C++, but i didnt dwelve evry deep on any of those, and then ended to Hollywood.

Hence my real knowledge about programming is somewhat limited, that I have only have some idea what real professional hardcore programming might be, but i dont really know. Hence I would suggest to look if Severin answers you telling what is wrong with Hollywood, since he might actually know better as far as i have understood. I dont really know that much about professional programming.

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Hypex 
Re: Amos - the route to programming mastery!
Posted on 29-Nov-2014 15:24:57
#23 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
Or you can go the other way, and create a AMOS library for C++ / C.


What recreate it? I had hoped the sources for it would be released so a "fixed" OS4 version could be installed on machines to get AMOS programs working.

Quote:
a gosub, is not because it allowed you exit the subroutine at any place and jump to any part of the code


As I understand it a GOSUB needs a RETURN so if a person is jumping to other places in code he is a bad programmer!

Quote:
That be a wast of brain power to think about as they are outdated now.


Well AmigaBASIC didn't need line numbers so was modern in that respect. Been a while since I used AMOS but I'm sure it was the same way and could do proper subroutines.

Quote:
I'm just a concerned that when you get used to the garbage collector taking care of freeing things for you, you forget that you need to free memory in other programming languages.


That's one of the good things about BASIC, it is a safe language. Memory management and opening APIs can be complcated. Of course the C functions can be used to manage it BASIC is good for an introduction to programming. But I grew up in the 80's so maybe I'm influenced by that era. The same era that encouraged learning of assembler.

Quote:
Amos uses blitter, low level stuff, but you don't see how it used, so you don't learn how hardware works.


It's a sad fact that AMOS is actually system friendly but because of the way it is programmed it doesn't act like it. AMOS uses graphics.library to directly set up displays which is one fine way of doing it but intuition is better for the user.

It'a made worse by the AMOS "hack" that locked the AMOS screen by inserting an underscore into the name of some AMOS switcher task, IIRC. This was not needed and could have been done in a more system friendly way. Something I had hoped to fix had the sources been available.

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Thorham 
Re: Amos - the route to programming mastery!
Posted on 2-Dec-2014 4:54:22
#24 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 5-Mar-2014
Posts: 183
From: Unknown

Don't learn Amos, learn a proper language such as C. If you want to know more about how the CPU does things (or you want to do things the hard way), then learn 68k assembly language. Whatever you learn, learn something that allows you to do things the right way, and old BASIC interpreters don't do that.

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