@ExiE

Quote:

ExiE wrote: @amigakit Quote: In my opinion, the only way Amiga is going to break even economically is if there is more quality software. Investment into software development is the way forward - I do not mean the OS, we need software technologies to enable games porting and higher quality application software. You are right that software is what we need the most atm, but you are quite wrong about the OS. Without right technologies (drivers, APIs, frameworks,...) that are usually integral part of the OS, you can't make quality software. I mean who would create top-notch software for outdated OS missing many today standards?

Sadly, I have to agree with ExiE. AmigaOS4.1FE is lacking too many of today's standard computer technologies and development tools to make it a viable platform for programmers to create new software, or even port most software from other platforms.

I admire the work that is being done by A-Eon & AmigaKit, as well as many others, to promote more software development, and/or port software to natively run on AmigaOS4.x, but we need much more to really gain significant numbers of new users and programmers. Some kind of "REAL" 3D support is desperately needed, if we are ever going to be able to port any of the currently popular games to AmigaOS4.x. The PPC processors we are using in even our fastest compatible models are not nearly fast enough to do the work of general computing PLUS any software 3D rendering, so hardware 3D driver support, complete with shaders, so we can take full advantage of our HD Radeon video cards is really needed some time in the near future. I'll admit that I don't know too much about Galium, but I am skeptical that it will be sufficient to match 3D drivers on other platforms and allow programmers the ability to port today's most popular games to AmigaOS4.x. I would love to be proved wrong (it would not be the first time).

With A-Eon & AmigaKit's determination and dedication to provide more software content for AmigaOS4.x (as well as some updated software for AmigaOS3.x and maybe even MorphOS & AROS), things will improve. I just think that if more work on the OS side could be finished faster, we would have many more opportunities available to our developers. It is hard to create new content, or port good existing content to AmigaOS4.x without the best tools and modern technologies built into the OS.

_________________
Amiga! The computer that inspired so many, to accomplish so much, but has ended up in the hands of . . . . . . . . . .

@Manu

didn't you stop caring back in 2005?

-- eliyahu

_________________
"Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal."

@amigadave

Quote:

amigadave wrote: I admire the work that is being done by A-Eon & AmigaKit

Funneling the future of the entire Amiga platform to their own proprietary €3000 EUR systems that's only for some 300 rich people is a bloody crime and not some source of admiration! Not even Bill McEwen and Fleecy Moss hurt the Amiga as much as Trevor and Matt did by doing this!



Quote:

With A-Eon & AmigaKit's determination and dedication to provide more software content for AmigaOS4.x things will improve.

How on earth will things improve by AmigaKit spending money to re-release S/W like Personal Paint? What's that really, a fart of nostalgica? It's hardly even counted as real productive S/W anymore in the real world and it should ALREADY run on "NG" systems like Amiga OS 4, because running Amiga OS 68k S/W is a goddamn feature of such an Operating System! S/W that has been open sourced for ages and people run it in UAE for ages as well! Buyng it, making it proprietary again and re-releasing it -- Future?!



Quote:

I just think that if more work on the OS side could be finished faster, we would have many more opportunities available to our developers. It is hard to create new content, or port good existing content to AmigaOS4.x without the best tools and modern technologies built into the OS.

LOL, are you for real? Don't you understand that building custom H/W is the easy and cheap part of the equation, writing S/W is the expensive and time consuming part? And when the AmigaKit/AEON model of buying H/W development work from outside third party results in a €3000 EUR "Amiga X1000", after several YEARS of development, what good will this model be for making a S/W revolution you are dreaming of? When S/W development is so much more expensive and time consuming? And now people in this thread are dreaming of AmigaKit/AEON should take over Amiga OS 4 development after Hyperion by the same model of purchasing competence from outside for limited sources of cash, real expensive and time consuming work as OS development, when proof tells us they can't even purchase rapid progress of simple thins like drivers...



1. The AROS model didn't work because or anarchy and lack of management and interest from developers, with result of no market and no user base, and this means no customer base.

2. The Amiga OS 4 model had a commercial thought and because of this the order and discipline of centralized management and prioritys of proprietary S/W, but failed blatantly because of the lacking resources to really make this model work (just like AmigaKit/AEON it would really have taken 10x-100x as much capital to really make it good, and a customer base large enough to actually pay for this instead of only 200-400 people so that the prices could have been 1/10th or less of the prices of AmigaKit/AEON H/W)

3. The MorphOS model combines the idealist spirit and hobby involvement from AROS and the commercial/proprietary aspect of Amiga OS 4. And hasn't it come the furthest of them all? Isn't it still here? Is it threatened by bankruptcy or lack of involvement and lack of progress? No!

@TRIPOS

easy, easy. you'll have a heart attack at this rate.

-- eliyahu

_________________
"Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal."

@ thread

I still think this would be a good time to get the Amiga back into the market. OS 4 works well without a lot of memory and screen resolution. People are going for tiny devices right now. They don't care what it's doing to their eyes, their necks, their thumbs, and everything else. I can picture a tiny handheld Amiga. People would buy it if it had a cute name and came in lots of colors. All isn't lost!

_________________
X5000 / microA1(OS4.1 FE U2) / CodeBench / Imagine / Blender
Lightwave 2019 / Microsoft Visual C++

@thinkchip

Quote:

thinkchip wrote: @ thread I still think this would be a good time to get the Amiga back into the market. OS 4 works well without a lot of memory and screen resolution. People are going for tiny devices right now. They don't care what it's doing to their eyes, their necks, their thumbs, and everything else. I can picture a tiny handheld Amiga. People would buy it if it had a cute name and came in lots of colors. All isn't lost!

Works well at what? No productivity software, laughable 3D support or should I say lack of 3D support, no touch support, no multi-core support.......shall I go on? Again, works well at what? Running on outdated, overpriced hardware perhaps?

@ferrels

Quote:

Running on outdated, overpriced hardware perhaps?

I don't understand why you're here just to be pessimistic? So the platform has severe limitations in its current form agreed, but if you see no potential and don't enjoy using an Amiga of any flavour then seriously why are you here?

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@thinkchip

I agree with you, although probably not exactly in the way you are thinking.

A cheap handheld Amiga would have a market. But not competing against smartphones, or anything really considered a handheld computer.

A 68K 'Amiga on a chip' handheld, with micro SD slot, as a $50-$75 retro gaming system, would sell. In my opinion, going full blown retro is the only possible way for the Amiga to appeal to anything resembling a mass market.

I don't wish to insult anyone, but OS4 is pretty much a toy OS at this point. A toy OS that only runs on a 3K outdated computer. AROS, etc can't compete with modern operating systems either. So go with the model that could possibly produce some sales, some interest outside of the handful of people here ... a toy os for a retro toy. Of course even that requires an investment and risk, which is why we haven't seen it.

Otherwise, OS4 could be given away for free, and besides people here, and a handful of folks simply curious, nobody would care. This is the only place where people are willing to spend thousands of dollars on an outdated computer, and with much, much less software available, than a 5-10 year old PC/Mac that most people would throw away.

@thinkchip

Quote:

I still think this would be a good time to get the Amiga back into the market. OS 4 works well without a lot of memory and screen resolution.

the company just went bust. very good time, not for amiga for sure but for os4 certainly.

@BigD

Quote:

I don't understand why you're here just to be pessimistic? So the platform has severe limitations in its current form agreed, but if you see no potential and don't enjoy using an Amiga of any flavour then seriously why are you here?

perhaps because he is passionate of what amiga really is, not some pipe dream..

Life can be a bitch: you don't always get what you want.

Very much interested in OS4 and chilling out with the outcome. It's just not a matter of life and death.

Last edited by tripper on 17-Feb-2015 at 02:36 AM.
Last edited by tripper on 17-Feb-2015 at 02:29 AM.

@tripper

that's the best post yet. well stated.

-- eliyahu

_________________
"Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal."

@amigadave

Amiga OS has a good 2D API with features such as transparency, blending, scaling and rotation. MACE by Amiboing demonstrates the capabilities really well.

Sometimes we to quick to forget what we do have when considering what we don't.

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: @ferrels Quote: Running on outdated, overpriced hardware perhaps? I don't understand why you're here just to be pessimistic? So the platform has severe limitations in its current form agreed, but if you see no potential and don't enjoy using an Amiga of any flavour then seriously why are you here?

There's a big difference between pessimism and reality. Apparently you need to open that bottle and drink a big dose of reality. I'm here for classic Amigas. Next Generation Amigas are unholy bastardized freaks that are more PPC Macintoshs than anything "Amiga" that I remember. And I'm not delusional enough to believe that OS4, OS3 or earlier versions of AmigaOS are going to rise from the ashes and take the world by storm. That's about as ridiculous as believing the Model T Ford will rule the roads again. People are more likely to use flint and steel to build fires again before they'd even consider AmigaOS for use on anything modern.

Last edited by ferrels on 17-Feb-2015 at 03:39 AM.

Everyone is forgetting what could be good news...

The court case, if its anything like american courts mean that the filings will all be public information. So Hyperion will not be able to lie about their true financial condition.

I am not sure, but i believe all the documents, including who is owed what money, annual sales figures, company assets and everything else will be public information.

My prediction? We will find out that hyperion is essentially worthless, and that far fewer copies of os4 have been sold than what we were all led to believe.

Knowing the truth is never a bad thing.

@eliyahu

Shhh, i f I want someone to blow my cover I'll contact him via PM

_________________
AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current,
hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie

@TRIPOS

I disagree with your comments on "no user base" for AROS. I agree that it is perhaps less "managed" than MorphOS and I do not necessarily agree to every decision the core developer do but it has come very far too.

Short question... when have you last used Aros (be it one of the X86 distributions or f.e. my 68k distribution?

@ferrels

I do not understand what people think. Apprarently at least some are still dreaming of AmigaOS (or any other flavor) might become mainstream again and they think if you add SMP,64bit and MP it will again compete with Windows, Mac or Linux. I say it won´t.

Do we assume that magically there is a modern version of AmigaOS running 64bit with full MP, SMP, up to date drivers and so on.

Then the OS would technically be on same level as Windows or Linux. But it would still not have the developer resources, the money behind development, the software base and these are much more important than anything else.

So in my view it is more important to get up-to-date development environments with modern class-libraries that support different platforms (in best case even platforms like Windows or Linux) and to get dependencies ported (like the QT5 port) than MP. I do not say they are completely unimportant but not as important as some think. I say that as someone using development tools on windows for web and application development.

@eliyahu

Quote:

eliyahu wrote: @jorit2 ... thanks for checking out the z13! ... -- eliyahu

The pleasure was entirely mine !

Evert

_________________
-- Posting for charity -- Investing €10 in a charity related to education or civil rights for every message I post --

I am not interested in OS4. I just want Natami fueled with OS3.9 + ClassicWB.

More than enough for me. Thomas, bring Natami back!!!!!!!!!!!.....