@Hondo

Quote:

But if Trevor dares to make completely new hardware for the amiga os fans - he would probably also dare to ditch legacy support, and go full frontal sci-fi mode on the operating system

and if this happen what will you be left with? you have ditched amiga hardware technology, almost all amiga standards. as soon as you replace it all by linux counterparts, because where else are going to borrow them, there is no manpower to develop it on your own, what difference there will be to other linux distributions? you dont even have the right to the holy name.

amiga is past, accept it. we can play around a bit to see what could be done with it trying to preserve a kind of identity it had. that is what people behind aros or fpga projects honestly do. but acting and talking as if it was or could become commercially viable is bull, as it was told many times.

Last edited by wawa on 20-Feb-2015 at 10:57 AM.

@wawa

Quote:

... have ditched...almost all amiga standards

No.

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@cha05e90

so what would be left after modernizing the system to come along with the current (linux) standards?

@ Mods/Admins.

Best start a 2nd thread for this (or just lock it as they are so OT now!)

The server will struggle at this length!

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@wawa

Quote:

wawa wrote: ... have ditched...almost all amiga standards

Quote:

wawa wrote: @cha05e90 so what would be left after modernizing the system to come along with the current (linux) standards?

Wouldn't it be quite the other way, i.e. you're the one who has to sustain his conclusions? You did the allegation, it's your duty to prove your assumptions.

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@Nibunnoichi

as example

p96 - needs to be substituted
ahi - needs to be substituted
workbench - needs to be substituted
w3d - needs to be substituted with gallium

-these are statements about te roadmap i remember from os4 developers.

now
so object practically substituted amiga library on os4 afaik, none bothers to port or develop amiga libraries anymore. am i wrong?
similarly qt port caused a flood of quick linux application ports, apparently without much effect.

also redesigning the system for mp and smp if feasible at all would cause complete loss of backwards compatibility.

what does remain? some linux ports? uae?

Last edited by wawa on 20-Feb-2015 at 01:16 PM.

@thinkchip

I do not know belgium but in germany it must be really bankrupt. If not creditors can sue you.

@wawa

Quote:

p96 - needs to be substituted

Piacasso96 is obsolete, from AmigaOS4.1 Final you only really need graphics.library to do true color imagines.
Quote:

ahi - needs to be substituted

It was on the roadmap, until DaveAE quit, now I don't think its on the roadmap anymore, if there is any.
Quote:

workbench - needs to be substituted

From what I can see as user, they are mostly just, fixing and patching, and improving this one, maybe in the long distant future.
Quote:

w3d - needs to be substituted with gallium

It looks like we are going to get w3d now, as well as gallium, w3d has not been dropped, A-EON is paying for W3D support for Radeon HD.
Quote:

so object practically substituted amiga library on os4 afaik, none bothers to port or develop amiga libraries anymore. am i wrong?

Well yes, lots of work goes into improving existing libraries and stuff like that, composition is part of graphics.library, its not some alien new .so lib from some garbage dump.

Quote:

similarly qt port caused a flood of quick linux application ports, apparently without much effect.

QT was not a Hyperion project, now AROS and MorphOS also wonts QT, clearly there is sickness in AROS, MorphOS and AmigaOS4 market, where need to take short cuts.
No funding = no software there for take a short cut port cross platform lib, and port programs from somewhere else.
Quote:

also redesigning the system for mp and smp if feasible at all would cause complete loss of backwards compatibility.

For MP yes, for SMP no, SMP only enables programs to run in parallel, that's all it does, sure there are issues with cache's and making things atomic and stuff like that, but that is different problems.

Quote:

what does remain? some linux ports? uae?

Currently this is not problem, if we get things like GTK, then yes.

Some people are dreaming of secure multi user system, now this is a problem, this is not going to work with the current OS model, AmigaOS/AROS/MorphOS is not safe in anyway or form.

Now if AmigaOS/MorphOS and AROS was picture then this picture represents how safe the OS design is.



Some people think that the OS can be changed over night, or that they can make changes to make it safe, this is how ever not the case, this is way there is not a Linux/AROS hybrid for example, it simply not possible to take a OS that is designed around shard memory and and some how retro fit it to use pipes or other ways to communicate.

Sure you can make some thing that looks like AmigaOS, but is based on Linux, thats has been done a number of times, but it takes away what makes it AmigaOS in the first place.

http://linux.softpedia.com/get/Desktop-Environment/Themes/Amiga-Ubuntunized-54537.shtml
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=59320

AmigaOS4 has some memory protection, but if AmigaOS4 is the man sitting on chair, the OS will know when bullet misses, the OS, but not when it hits the target or the OS. The target or the OS is the same thing for memory protection more or less.

Now AmigaOS4 has good memory protection compared to some other AmigaOS clones.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Feb-2015 at 04:38 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Feb-2015 at 04:35 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Feb-2015 at 03:19 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga
@wawa
@etc

just made this thread to discuss full frontal sci-fi options for future AmigaOS

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=39939&start=0&post_id=752348&order=0&viewmode=thread&pid=0&forum=14#752348

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@NutsAboutAmiga

on aeros you can call within aros the underlaying linux. So you get your security if needed. (than you are basically just working with linux)

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 20-Feb-2015 at 09:07 PM.

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@phoenixkonsole

AEROS by using Linux free you from kernel stuff but AROS should be heavily updated to be an interesting alternative.
KAmelito

@phoenixkonsole

Quote:

on aeros you can call within aros the underlaying linux. So you get your security if needed. (than you are basically just working with linux)

Well you can run different instances of AROS, depending on what user / login script I guess, so can in theory; setup a multi user system on top of Linux.

But program security, there is not any at all AROS program runs inside AROS and are just as unsecure with in that hosted box, if someone sneak in a key logger into some AROS program you won't notice. No spyware protection, no malware protection, no virus protection, and the AROS OS structure are open door to all applications. Crash a program and continue to run safely its only something you can really do in the Linux host, the AROS box is as unsafe as AmigaOS or MorphOS.

We are lucky not have more viruses and malware then we have, but then again we are tiny community with few users and developers left.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-Feb-2015 at 01:23 PM.

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@Severin

Quote:

In Belgium anybody can file a bankruptcy claim even for 150 EUR or so. It is a common pressure tactic used by parties who do not wish go to the usual court process because most companies will pay rather than go through the motions of fighting off a bankruptcy claim. It is an abuse of procedure but in our case, matters came this far because the company which handles our administrative seat did not hand over the writ of summons in time for us to know about the claim. We could easily have fended it off but now we need to overturn the judgment. This was ofcourse not the intention of the claimant (quite the contrary) but there you have it.

Well today I see every instance of "we" replaced by "they" and "our" became "their" etc.:

Quote:

Posted on: Today

Quote:

In Belgium anybody can file a bankruptcy claim even for 150 EUR or so. It is a common pressure tactic used by parties who do not wish go to the usual court process because most companies will pay rather than go through the motions of fighting off a bankruptcy claim. It is an abuse of procedure, but in Hyperion's case matters came this far because the company which handles their administrative seat did not hand over the writ of summons in time for them to know about the claim. They could easily have fended off the bankruptcy claim, but now they need to overturn the judgement. As with many legal matters, this may take some time. They cannot even put out an official statement until some legal matters have been dealt with. Hence the comparative silence from Hyperion so far.

Source

Quote:

Hope that clears things up a little.

Quite the contrary...

#6

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@number6

Quote:

Well today I see every instance of "we" replaced by "they" and "our" became "their" etc.:

I would read no significance in to ChrisH "translation" of the text into third party, (I'm not sure why he felt the need for that) the original was as quoted by Serverin.

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@broadblues

Does not the addition of:

Quote:

They cannot even put out an official statement until some legal matters have been dealt with. Hence the comparative silence from Hyperion so far.

which doesn't even exist in the quote from Severin, indicate this is new information not included in that initial post by Severin? That's more than just a "translation" error. The line never existed before.

I really think people should stick to direct quotes and date these things.
*shrug*

#6

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This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@number6

I overlooked the addition, that is a paraphrasing of an additional statement by Ben made on the beta list as to why no official announcement yet. (beta NDA not applicable). To be honest I'm going to leave it to Ben to elaborate on that when the time is right (in a legal sense) rather than attempt o pick out the relavent bits.

Quote:

I really think people should stick to direct quotes and date these things.

Agreed. Paraphrasing adds to confusion though I'm sure ChrisH simply meant to spread more info in a way that doesn't implicate any on else.

_________________
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@number6
lol at that thread.
also note "stuff":
Quote:

Beta-testing of new AmigaOS4 stuff is continuing as usual.

people will probably like to try to act as if nothing happened and interpret it as

"Beta-testing of AmigaOS4 is continuing as usual."

while what it actually means, is that the freelance contributors are still working on their "stuff". which is what apparently kept os4 updates coming up till now anyway, so no big deal here. it will probably continue for some time after os distribution itself has ceased.

@wawa

A-EON's software projects are still in progress. Some exciting releases due this year from A-EON, with first due in May. Some of these are software for the OS rather than applications. So work continues..

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@amigakit

yes, we know... still in progress.

Last edited by wawa on 21-Feb-2015 at 06:48 PM.

@Hondo

"But the problem is that Hyperion keeps the progress a secret."

The problem is Hyperion.

They are simply too small and there is a pungent whiff in the air coming from a lot of different directions.

Where there's smoke, there's fire.

My vote:

1. Secure ownership/use of the trademark.
2. Secure ownership/right to use any IP of value from Hyperion.
3. Extend an olive branch to the various Amiga factions.
4. Collaborate with Matt Dillon.

Making a solution walk and talk like a duck will be far easier than continuing on the current trajectory or starting from scratch.

It won't be easy and many will gasp in horror but it's time to create an inventory of the Amiga-specific technologies of importance and focus on them.

The one element that always seems to be missing or is misappropriated is the spirit.