Hi there,

It's been a while since I've done any AmigaOS development (not since 4.0) and I was wondering if there was OpenGL support in the OS/SDK yet?

If not, is Warp3D the way to go for 3D graphics or something else?

Thanks in advance :)

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@BinoX

MiniGL (as old opengl specification), and warp3d as old warp3d. I.e. all the same as was 5 or 10 years ago. If it about os4 , then all in SDK as well (and if i remember right was in sine 4.0 (not sure, but since 4.1 for sure) )

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@BinoX

If not, is Warp3D the way to go for 3D graphics or something else?

Warp3D is the way to go for Radeon 7250.
Or use Composition + software 3D for RadeonHD.

We are waiting for Warp3D support for newer RadeonHD graphic cards.
We are also waiting for Gallium3D support.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 30-Mar-2015 at 02:44 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

AFAIK 2d compositing works also on pre-HD cards as well. Like my 9200SE.

That's another way to do 3d. Perhaps a bit more math involved but texture mapping can be done.

@BinoX

Quote:

if there was OpenGL support in the OS/SDK yet?

As said, MiniGL is a partial implementation of OpenGL, done on top of Warp3D already long before OS4.

As for OpenGL, that's pretty much OpenGL 1.x, meaning:
-Immediate mode (which should always be avoided), display lists (almost as bad) and vertex arrays.
-No shaders, vbo, fbo etc.
-No various random things defined in the spec, that some random programs might use.

(Disclaimer, never used MiniGL, just mentioning what I think are missing)

Quite a bit better on MorphOS, but only AROS has more modern OpenGL with shaders etc.

Quote:

If not, is Warp3D the way to go for 3D graphics or something else?

Hyperion has officially stated, that Warp3D will remain only for backwards compatibility, so it won't be developed further. OpenGL is the way to go.

Of course what you should first ask yourself: Would you want whatever you write to be (potentially) multiplatform? If the answer is yes, don't even consider anything else than OpenGL (although a portable software 3D renderer would do aswell, I guess...)

Last edited by Jupp3 on 30-Mar-2015 at 10:34 PM.

@Jupp3

I wouldn't worry about Warp3D "going away". You can always fall back on Wazp3D, which a lot of people already do with Radeon HD cards.

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MiniGL V2.20 has just been released on OS4Depot:

http://os4depot.net/?function=showfile&file=driver/graphics/minigl.lha

@BinoX

Perhaps you should consider programming portable AROS version with modernish OpenGL, if MiniGL is not enough.

btw. does 68k AROS have that modernish OpenGL?

(then it could be used for R&D via UAE on AOS4, perhps...)

Also a developer should ask the latest info from aos4 OpenGL development people.
Perhaps there is a useable developer version of OpenGL2.0 for AOS4.1+ already...

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@KimmoK
Quote:

btw. does 68k AROS have that modernish OpenGL?

it does, but only in software at this time. it doesnt work absolutely correctly though, and due to its very high demands: 256mb ram and slow execution (it has a lot of features that take hell of time if not done in hardware i guess) it isnt practically usable like that. not even under uae.

@BSzili

Quote:

I wouldn't worry about Warp3D "going away". You can always fall back on Wazp3D, which a lot of people already do with Radeon HD cards.

Yes, it will probably be there always (it was already kind of deprecated on MorphOS on newer graphics cards, but already supported somehow with 3rd party library).

If you, however, expect it to be developed further and getting some modern-ish features, that was originally planned by Hyperion (Warp3D Nova, wasn't it?), but that plan has, afaik, been buried, and OpenGL is the "official" 3D API of OS4.

@Jupp3

I don't think anyone is expecting the Warp3D API to evolve, but MiniGL is much slower than using Warp3D directly, so people who need the performance will go for the latter. See the Cherry Darling games VoxelNoid and VoxelBird.

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@Jupp3

Quote:

Hyperion has officially stated, that Warp3D will remain only for backwards compatibility, so it won't be developed further. OpenGL is the way to go.

A-EON own Warp3D now. When I spoke to Matt in January he told me that he would like to see more features added to Warp3D. Nothing official of course, so we may not see any new feature but it's certainly not cut and dry anymore.

@BSzili

Quote:

I don't think anyone is expecting the Warp3D API to evolve, but MiniGL is much slower than using Warp3D directly

Have you already given up on waiting for the Gallium-based OpenGL implementation to materialize for OS4 aswell?

Can't blame you, it's been "almost ready" for years...

@Jupp3

I'm not holding my breath. I'm not taking a jab at anyone, I'm just pragmatic: I use whatever I have at my disposal.

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@BSzili

Quote:

I use whatever I have at my disposal.

I understand your point.

But personally, I wouldn't (temporarily) downgrade my entire codebase to worse 3D api with very limited support, just because "The proper 3D drivers aren't ready yet for one platform"...

@Jupp3

Don't worry :)

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@Jupp3

Quote:

Jupp3 wrote: @BSzili Quote: I use whatever I have at my disposal. I understand your point. But personally, I wouldn't (temporarily) downgrade my entire codebase to worse 3D api with very limited support, just because "The proper 3D drivers aren't ready yet for one platform"...

While I've put a lot of work into improving MiniGL over the years, I do like it when developers choose to use Warp3D directly.

Sure, it's a clunky old API that's very out-of-date, but it is disctinctly Amiga. Plus, those who use it properly can do some impressive stuff. They can get better performance when they strip away MiniGL's overhead. CherryDarling's games are an example of this. IIRC, crisot's Universe 3 demo runs in full 1920x1080 HD on my A1-X1000 with a Radeon HD 7770 card, with only about 10-15% CPU usage. Clearly that demo has plenty of spare processing power (on my machine) for extras.

That said, if someone wants their code to be easily ported to other OSes, then OpenGL is the way to go.

Hans

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