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      /  Question....If Apple computer bailed out amiga
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mcbone 
Question....If Apple computer bailed out amiga
Posted on 12-May-2015 15:06:56
#1 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-May-2013
Posts: 535
From: Unknown

Question....If Apple computer bailed out amiga instead of commodre do you think the amiga still be life today

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An Apple a day keep bill gates away

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OlafS25 
Re: Question....If Apple computer bailed out amiga
Posted on 12-May-2015 15:14:16
#2 ]
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Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@mcbone

no

they had their own OS

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Rob 
Re: Question....If Apple computer bailed out amiga
Posted on 12-May-2015 15:22:44
#3 ]
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Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales

@mcbone

They certainly wouldn't have failed to market it properly.

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g01df1sh 
Re: Question....If Apple computer bailed out amiga
Posted on 12-May-2015 15:45:30
#4 ]
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Joined: 16-Apr-2009
Posts: 1777
From: UK

@Rob

I don't think it was down to marketing completely . The real reason was it was way ahead of the rest when it first came out and then had very little upgrades over the years. Only two chipset upgrades ECS to AGA and nothing done to poor old Paula. If AAA had come out at the right time so we could of had games like doom running at high res then I think the story would be a whole lot different.

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OlafS25 
Re: Question....If Apple computer bailed out amiga
Posted on 12-May-2015 15:50:15
#5 ]
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Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@g01df1sh

the question was if Apple would have bought Amiga would it still exist and it would not and it propably never would have existed anyway because apple would have used the patents for the apples and dropped the rest.

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klx300r 
Re: Question....If Apple computer bailed out amiga
Posted on 12-May-2015 16:51:02
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2008
Posts: 3833
From: Toronto, Canada

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote:
@g01df1sh

the question was if Apple would have bought Amiga would it still exist and it would not and it propably never would have existed anyway because apple would have used the patents for the apples and dropped the rest.


+1, The Amiga 1000 would have been the Apple 1000 and our beloved checkmark would have been a half eaten Apple ..ughh

though no doubt they would have charged double the cost and marketed it better than Commodore.

Last edited by klx300r on 12-May-2015 at 04:54 PM.

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bison 
Re: Question....If Apple computer bailed out amiga
Posted on 12-May-2015 17:38:52
#7 ]
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Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 2112
From: N-Space

@mcbone

Apple would probably have done a better job marketing -- they really couldn't have done any worse than Commodore -- but I think the hardware architecture would have still been a problem. Some of the things that seems brilliant in 1985 such as multitasking without an MMU and planar graphics were a liability by 1992. The Amiga architecture was by design a transitory thing.

If Commodore had not run Amiga into the ground, Moore's law would have done it in.

Last edited by bison on 12-May-2015 at 05:42 PM.

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KimmoK 
Re: Question....If Apple computer bailed out amiga
Posted on 12-May-2015 18:53:43
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

Commodore died because of the loss on their IBM compatible branch. So, most likely with Apple, Amiga would have had a better future.

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BigD 
Re: Question....If Apple computer bailed out amiga
Posted on 12-May-2015 19:32:42
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@KimmoK

Quote:
Commodore died because of the loss on their IBM compatible branch. So, most likely with Apple, Amiga would have had a better future.


Disagree completely. While the PC line didn't help the primary reasons for bankruptcy was CBM failed to market the Amiga, put no R&D into graphics chip/sound chip upgrades, bailed out of a Japanese launch at the last minute and fired a great Chief Executive like Rattigan for having business sense and standing up to Gould in the board room.

Apple would have harvested the patents and never launched the A1000 in it's Lorraine form. Steve Jobs believed the Amiga had too much hardware and the Amiga line would hence have been disassembled by Apple. Better to exist than never exist at all.

Last edited by BigD on 12-May-2015 at 07:34 PM.

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duga 
Re: Question....If Apple computer bailed out amiga
Posted on 12-May-2015 19:46:09
#10 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 1-May-2012
Posts: 227
From: Unknown

@g01df1sh

As you know Doom is fully playable on 030 + ECS. No need for "AAA".

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pavlor 
Re: Question....If Apple computer bailed out amiga
Posted on 12-May-2015 19:49:58
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9578
From: Unknown

@duga

Quote:
As you know Doom is fully playable on 030 + ECS.


No. Doom in EHB is ugly...

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Chuckt 
Re: Question....If Apple computer bailed out amiga
Posted on 12-May-2015 20:29:30
#12 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2008
Posts: 445
From: Unknown

@mcbone

Quote:

mcbone wrote:
Question....If Apple computer bailed out amiga instead of commodre do you think the amiga still be life today


No.

They have abandoned the Apple IIe and went to the GS, the Mac and so forth. Show me where everything is backwards compatible.

Your Amigas today would not be backwards compatible following the behavior in their history.

You love Amiga. Would you abandon your machine for Apple if they took Amiga in a different direction that wasn't compatible with the old systems?

Don't forget that Apple is known for the iPad and iPod today and less their computer line and most people can't afford them except those that want to be far ahead of those behind technology.

Don't forget that Apple was in trouble financially before their iPod success.

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Drewlio77 
Re: Question....If Apple computer bailed out amiga
Posted on 12-May-2015 21:08:39
#13 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 2-Jan-2008
Posts: 781
From: Woodstock, Ontario, Canada

@Chuckt

Exactly the point I wanted to make. If you keep the Commodore and Apple franchises in the same time frame, like you should (lets say 1985 - 1990), I believe Apple would have doomed the Amiga far before Commodore ever did.

Drewlio77

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Chuckt 
Re: Question....If Apple computer bailed out amiga
Posted on 12-May-2015 23:10:36
#14 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2008
Posts: 445
From: Unknown

@mcbone

Quote:

mcbone wrote:
Question....If Apple computer bailed out amiga instead of commodre do you think the amiga still be life today


I don't think they could have bailed out Commodore. Commodore had a $1 million dollar fine from the EPA so where would they have made their chips? In order to bail out a company, you almost have to make your money back and I'm not sure you could rescue the whole product line because they weren't making enough profit on the Commodore 64. In a sense, for every Commodore 64 they made, they weren't selling Amigas.

What would Apple rescue Commodore towards? Apple didn't make their own chips so they had no expertise in this area and Amiga didn't have any answers rescuing themselves.

And if Apple rescued Commodore, what technology would Apple of Commodore have to possess to make the chip process smaller?

And if Steve Jobs got control of the Amiga, how many slots would the Amiga have?

"During the design stage, Steve Jobs argued that the Apple II should have two expansion slots, while Wozniak wanted six. After a heated argument, during which Wozniak had threatened for Jobs to 'go get himself another computer', they decided to go with eight slots. The Apple II became one of the first highly successful mass-produced personal computers."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Wozniak

And what sense would it have made for Apple to have an additional product line? For every Amiga they sold, that would have been one less Mac sold.

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Chuckt 
Re: Question....If Apple computer bailed out amiga
Posted on 12-May-2015 23:11:30
#15 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2008
Posts: 445
From: Unknown

@Drewlio77

Quote:

Drewlio77 wrote:
@Chuckt

Exactly the point I wanted to make. If you keep the Commodore and Apple franchises in the same time frame, like you should (lets say 1985 - 1990), I believe Apple would have doomed the Amiga far before Commodore ever did.

Drewlio77


They couldn't have made the Amiga which is why they were afraid of it and wouldn't have understood it.

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Kicko 
Re: Question....If Apple computer bailed out amiga
Posted on 13-May-2015 0:37:20
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 19-Jun-2004
Posts: 5009
From: Sweden

They would buy it then kill it

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ne_one 
Re: Question....If Apple computer bailed out amiga
Posted on 13-May-2015 1:23:41
#17 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 905
From: Unknown

Apple considered the Amiga to be at best a passing curiosity when the original team was seeking investment and irrelevant when Commodore imploded.

The only other party genuinely interested in the Amiga was Atari and we know how that story ends.

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agami 
Re: Question....If Apple computer bailed out amiga
Posted on 13-May-2015 5:05:38
#18 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1637
From: Melbourne, Australia

@mcbone

Apple were having their own issues with bringing the Macintosh to market.
Besides, if Steve Jobs did his trademark changes of mind and got over his initial assessment of "too much hardware" then Amiga would have been incorporated into Apple at one of the worst times in Apple history.

There wouldn't have been enough time for any of the Amiga hardware or operating system design to make it into the Macintosh. Carl and team would have been absorbed into the Apple OS team and Jay and team would be absorbed into the Macintosh and/or other hardware teams.

The news of the acquisition would have been mentioned in some newspapers and magazines in that initial month and then a year later we would perhaps see some improved OS stuff crop up on the Macintosh and Macintosh XL.

I'd like to think it would make the Macintosh II or perhaps the the Macintosh SE much more interesting machines. And incorporating some of the OS concepts the Amiga team had would have made System 7 a lot more potent and most likely eliminate the famous mid-'90s search for a new OS.

Of course that's assuming most of the people would have stayed at Apple. Likely, some would have followed Jobs over to NeXT because their personalities would have made them drawn to a nascent computer company (again). And maybe others would have followed Gassée years later when he started Be Inc.

I'd have to say that something that can be seen as a fairly meaningful technology acquisition in 1984-5 could have resulted in there being no Pixar animation studio, no OS X, no iDevices, and obviously no Amiga. Of course in that universe people are perfectly happy with their technology ecosystem as all the things we have they have too, it just looks different and it is marketed by different companies.

So is it better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all?

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KimmoK 
Re: Question....If Apple computer bailed out amiga
Posted on 13-May-2015 6:22:41
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@BigD

> While the PC line didn't help the primary reasons for bankruptcy was CBM failed to market the Amiga,

They focused on IBM compatibles and Medhi tried to made PC like changes to A4000 (SCSI -> IDE etc).

From what I know Amiga68k sector has been always profitable. Also in Escom times and Gateway times.

> put no R&D into graphics chip/sound chip upgrades,

There was R&D but management failed to support designers and release updates.
CBM should have focused on Amiga.

>Apple would have harvested the patents and never launched the A1000 in it's Lorraine form. Steve Jobs believed the Amiga had too much hardware and the Amiga line would hence have been disassembled by Apple. Better to exist than never exist at all.

Hard to believe anyone could handle Amiga worse than Irvin Gould and Medhi Ali did...
Apple was inferior HW and OS. Finally they themself realized it and ditched their OS (&adopted Unix) etc.

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// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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danwood 
Re: Question....If Apple computer bailed out amiga
Posted on 13-May-2015 13:32:42
#20 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2008
Posts: 1059
From: Unknown

@mcbone

Apple certainly could not have afforded to bail out Commodore. At the same time that Commodore went under, Apple were also on the verge of bankruptcy. Luckily for Apple, Microsoft came along and saved their ass.

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