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g01df1sh 
MorphOS code
Posted on 21-May-2015 22:17:16
#1 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2009
Posts: 1777
From: UK

Hi all

I'm not a programer just interested in the workings. Does MorphOS use any kind of Linux kernel for its device driver support or is it all amigaos code . if its Amiga code what's the difference between amigaos 4.1 and MorphOS apart from one being official . hope this does not start a war of red and blue as it is not intend to.

Last edited by g01df1sh on 21-May-2015 at 10:18 PM.

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broadblues 
Re: MorphOS code
Posted on 21-May-2015 22:40:42
#2 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4446
From: Portsmouth England

@g01df1sh

If you start running now, you might just get out alive.....

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kolla 
Re: MorphOS code
Posted on 21-May-2015 22:59:23
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2859
From: Trondheim, Norway

@g01df1sh

Wikipedia answers all your questions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MorphOS

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agami 
Re: MorphOS code
Posted on 22-May-2015 0:23:24
#4 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1637
From: Melbourne, Australia

@broadblues

Quote:
If you start running now, you might just get out alive.....



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klx300r 
Re: MorphOS code
Posted on 22-May-2015 3:56:28
#5 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2008
Posts: 3833
From: Toronto, Canada

Quote:

broadblues wrote:
@g01df1sh

If you start running now, you might just get out alive.....


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jPV 
Re: MorphOS code
Posted on 22-May-2015 5:28:33
#6 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 11-Apr-2005
Posts: 809
From: .fi

@g01df1sh

Quote:

g01df1sh wrote:
Hi all

I'm not a programer just interested in the workings. Does MorphOS use any kind of Linux kernel for its device driver support or is it all amigaos code . if its Amiga code what's the difference between amigaos 4.1 and MorphOS apart from one being official . hope this does not start a war of red and blue as it is not intend to.


AFAIK there's only small extensions to APIs on both, but mainly the difference is just on the name, and long time ago MorphOS almost got the official name before there was the other option.

Edit: and to clarify, no, there isn't any kind of Linux kernel in MorphOS. And actually MorphOS is even more pure about the non-linuxish approach than OS4 (MorphOS only uses classic Amiga style libraries while OS4 has added support for shared objects, for example).

Last edited by jPV on 22-May-2015 at 07:45 AM.

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resle 
Re: MorphOS code
Posted on 22-May-2015 7:11:57
#7 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2005
Posts: 500
From: shanghai

@g01df1sh

Quote:

g01df1sh wrote:
Does MorphOS use any kind of Linux kernel for its device driver support or is it all amigaos code . if its Amiga code what's the difference between amigaos 4.1 and MorphOS apart from one being official .


MorphOS is just a reskin/rename of AmigaOS 4. And so is AROS. AmigaOS 1.x to 3.x are also copies of AmigaOS 4 that have been sent back in time and carefully downgraded to work on earlier hardware.

Linux is a urban legend.

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KimmoK 
Re: MorphOS code
Posted on 22-May-2015 7:53:24
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@jPV

+1

Trying to ad some bits...
-Drivers are native QuarkKernel/ABox drivers on MorphOS. (most likely some 68k drivers also work)
-MorphOS does not contain AmigaOS code (even though it long ago needed some things copied from AmigaOS to fully function).
-MorphOS is API compatible re-implementation of AmigaOS3.1 + improvements
-Some things from AOS3.9 has been added MorphOS from third party sources.
-MorphOS uses Ambient instead of old AmigaOS Workbench
-MorphOS uses heavily MUI instead of re-action (reaction is more used on AOS3.5...AOS4)
-MorphOS is improved greatly from AOS3.1 state
...

Trying to compare to AmigaOS4...
-In AmigaOS4, drivers are native AmigaOS4 drivers but some drivers from 68k work as well.
-AmigaOS4 uses about 100% of AmigaOS3.1 code, re-compiled and updated for PowerPC.
-Some things from AOS3.9 has been added AOS4 from third party sources.
-AmigaOS4 is improved from AOS3.1.
...

AROS uses a little bit more from x86 linux, because it can. But also it is a API compatible re-implementation of AmigaOS3.1 + improvements. The biggest difference to the previous two is that it is open sourced and it can not run old 68k apps similarly as the first two. (it needs UAE)
(there is also 68k build of AROS, that version runs old 68k AOS applications nicely on 68k HW)


IMO:
-MorphOS is the most advanced and robust (because it's PPC life was started years before AOS4)
-AmigaOS is slightly behind because it is a little bit more tied to the old.
-AROS had the slowest start, even when it was started early. Now AROS is proceeding fast and might be as usefull as the others very soon (tm).

++
Trying to see roadmap....
-AmigaOS4 is being updated gradually to have modern features like multicore support, trying not to break the old SW API. This is insanely difficult task. AmigaOS4 is focusing 100% on PowerArchitecture.
-MorphOS has had a little bit less ambitious plan. They do not plan to put too much new to the current AmigaOS API compatible ABox version of MorphOS. They plan to do more instant shift to the modern things capable MorphOS, leaving some/most of the old API compatibility. (old apps might run in sandbox though) Current MorphOS focus 100% on PowerArchitecture but the future generation is planned to exist also(or only) on x64.
-AROS has been catching up the AOS3.1 API and adding some modernish things at the same time. Because anybody/everybody can update it, it does not seem to have clear roadmap. It just goes forward? AROS runs on 68k, PPC, ARM, x86 and x64. Focus has been on x86 and recently heavily also on 68k and ARM, so it's not clear what is their main HW focus in future.

++++
imHo, very humble opinion:
-AmigaOS4 and AROS might end in complex mess with their "roadmap" (or lack of it).
-MorphOS might have best chance to stay ahead and be the most robust modernish AmigaOSflavor.


(IMO, Linux is now a mess, after it ten years ago seemed to be ok.)
+++++

-Apple&OSX computers have their unique robustness (if I'm not mistaken) because they run only on limited set of HW. (and because they use stable server kernel on their OS)
-Microsoft OS dominate (and are remotely usable systems) because it has monopoly and unlimited resources. They control 99,99% of the home computers of this planet. If they do poor OS version, it does not matter because they have monopoly. They afford to support so huge amount of HW because HW manufacturers must do most of the drivers and because they have unlimited resources.

Microsoft, for example, denied Gateway from further developing Amiga computers. So, any/every of their partners get a threat of loosing the partnership if they do not obey 100%.

Last edited by KimmoK on 22-May-2015 at 08:31 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 22-May-2015 at 08:29 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 22-May-2015 at 08:20 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 22-May-2015 at 08:18 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 22-May-2015 at 08:17 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 22-May-2015 at 08:16 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 22-May-2015 at 08:11 AM.

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g01df1sh 
Re: MorphOS code
Posted on 22-May-2015 8:01:37
#9 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2009
Posts: 1777
From: UK

@KimmoK

Thanks for the info. And to all the Devs keep up the good work what ever colour you our. I don't wont a world of just Microsoft will be even worse when they go over to this stupid subscription idea.

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TRIPOS 
Re: MorphOS code
Posted on 22-May-2015 10:44:30
#10 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1204
From: Unknown

@g01df1sh

Quote:

g01df1sh wrote:

I'm not a programer just interested in the workings. Does MorphOS use any kind of Linux kernel for its device driver support or is it all amigaos code.


It's certainly not hosted on top of Linux, everything is coded as native Amiga API by the MorphOS Team themselves.



Quote:
if its Amiga code what's the difference between amigaos 4.1 and MorphOS apart from one being official . hope this does not start a war of red and blue as it is not intend to.


The biggest difference is that MorphOS develops faster, it performs better in almost every measurable aspect, it has more features, it better features and the best old Amiga standards included, it tends to have better Amiga compatibility, it tends to be more stable, it supports a very large base of hardware that has been constantly increasing, including laptops, and all updates has been free of charge for everyone since they started selling licenses for money with the 2.0 release.

OS4 has the boing ball and "AmigaOS" name.

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terminills 
Re: MorphOS code
Posted on 22-May-2015 10:59:51
#11 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1472
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

Quote:
It's certainly not hosted on top of Linux, everything is coded as native Amiga API by the MorphOS Team themselves.



I wouldn't say they by themselves. It's a well known fact that the MorphOS team used AROS code(granted they made many improvements.).


https://trac.aros.org/trac/browser/AROS/trunk/AROS/rom/intuition.morphos?rev=18611




Last edited by terminills on 22-May-2015 at 11:00 AM.

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tonyw 
Re: MorphOS code
Posted on 22-May-2015 12:31:23
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3240
From: Sydney (of course)

@KimmoK

Quote:
AmigaOS4 uses about 100% of AmigaOS3.1 code, re-compiled and updated for PowerPC.


That's belittling all the work that we've been doing for the last fifteen years. There may be a few C: commands that have not been rewritten and are merely ported from 68K to the new APIs, but you could count them on one hand. There are even a few third-party components that are still 68K because we don't have sources for them.

But I would estimate more like 5% than 100%.

Quote:
Microsoft, for example, denied Gateway from further developing Amiga computers.


[citation needed]

Otherwise I thought your post was excellent and well balanced.

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danwood 
Re: MorphOS code
Posted on 22-May-2015 12:39:32
#13 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2008
Posts: 1059
From: Unknown

@tonyw


Quote:
That's belittling all the work that we've been doing for the last fifteen years. There may be a few C: commands that have not been rewritten and are merely ported from 68K


I do wonder about this, one of the 'selling' points I often see for OS4 is that "it's the same 3.1 code that you've always used from Commodore, updated", but I wonder how much of that same code still exists today. If it really only is 5% then it's not much different to MorphOS or AROS if it's mostly new code.

The way I always though of it, OS4 is OS3 but ported to PPC.

MorphOS is a totally 'new' Os that has Amiga 3.1 API compatibility and runs Amiga programs.

The two are actually very different deep down.

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OlafS25 
Re: MorphOS code
Posted on 22-May-2015 12:40:32
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@KimmoK

"AROS runs on 68k, PPC, ARM, x86 and x64. Focus has been on x86 and recently heavily also on 68k and ARM, so it's not clear what is their main HW focus in future."

Is that now a advantage or disadvantage?

Zuneview (as a example) was developed on X86 and the same sources (without any changes) is compiled and run on 68k. I do not want someone who says me what hardware is "enough" for me. One is happy with something like Raspberry 2, another one wants to use a heavy desktop PC. Who wants to predict what will be in say 5 or 10 years? What will be the leading platform then? ARM or X64? Perhaps another one. At the moment X64 is better choice but who knows. PPC seemed a logical choice for future too back in the 90s. The rest is history.

And if there will be another new super-processor then there will be a new Aros version for it. Future is safe and there is no need to make any bets like on the other platforms.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 22-May-2015 at 12:46 PM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 22-May-2015 at 12:46 PM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 22-May-2015 at 12:42 PM.

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KimmoK 
Re: MorphOS code
Posted on 22-May-2015 12:50:16
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@TRIPOS


Not facts: (depends on viewpoint)
>MorphOS develops faster
>it has more features
>the best old Amiga standards included
>it tends to have better Amiga compatibility

example - AOS4 comes with AOS3 files, so it can run 100% of the 68k legacy.


True:
>it performs better in almost every measurable aspect
(unless the HW is weaker)
>it tends to be more stable
>it supports a very large base of hardware that has been constantly increasing, including laptops,
(NOW also new HW, instead only old, unlike before latest release.)
> and all updates has been free of charge for everyone since they started selling licenses for money with the 2.0 release.
>OS4 has the boing ball and "AmigaOS" name.



btw. MorphOS does not spit on Linux, though. There exist things like scanner SW for MorphOS that use sane drivers from linux.

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
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KimmoK 
Re: MorphOS code
Posted on 22-May-2015 13:00:29
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@tonyw

>>AmigaOS4 uses about 100% of AmigaOS3.1 code, re-compiled and updated for PowerPC.
>That's belittling all the work that we've been doing for the last fifteen years.

FIX attempt:
AmigaOS4 used about 100% of original AmigaOS3.1 code.
First some parts were still in 68k binary format, then all was re-compiled (or rewritten where needed) and updated for PowerPC.

>>Microsoft, for example, denied Gateway from further developing Amiga computers.
>[citation needed]
>Otherwise I thought your post was excellent and well balanced.

I'm too lazy to search but Petro told so in our event last year.
(unless I misunderstood something what he said)

It might also be here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L9wNzFxEh8
or here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmx44IhhR7I

Last edited by KimmoK on 22-May-2015 at 01:01 PM.

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
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KimmoK 
Re: MorphOS code
Posted on 22-May-2015 13:07:06
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@OlafS25

>>"AROS runs on 68k, PPC, ARM, x86 and x64. Focus has been on x86 and recently heavily also on 68k and ARM, so it's not clear what is their main HW focus in future."

>Is that now a advantage or disadvantage?

To me it seems like disadvantage now. I rather see state of the art AmigaLikeNGOS on x64 before yet another version of the old on ARM. IMO, supporting a lot of ISAs make things more difficult. The less variants are supported the system can become more solid (like original amiga or current AppleComputer). Linux supports a lot of ISAs and perhaps that's one of the reasons it's a pile of p** nowdays.

(yesterday my wife stick Nikon high end camera to our LinuxMint64 and the I have to come to reboot it., again. Damnd linux was so good and stable before y2008 or so.)


++
It also could be that running AROS on a interesting ISA/device can be the motivation for some key developer. If it's so, then I accept the waste of resources via multiple ISAs.

Last edited by KimmoK on 22-May-2015 at 01:13 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 22-May-2015 at 01:09 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 22-May-2015 at 01:08 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: MorphOS code
Posted on 22-May-2015 13:16:54
#18 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@KimmoK

we should continue in PM because otherwise I get attacked again

I have PMd you

Last edited by OlafS25 on 22-May-2015 at 01:33 PM.

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Hypex 
Re: MorphOS code
Posted on 22-May-2015 16:37:52
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@g01df1sh

Just to throw a spanner in the works. If it uses common AHI driver code like OS4 then it's likely using Linux code for device drivers. Note that it would be Linux driver sources and not using the actual Linux kernel. But I think by now this is understood.

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Hypex 
Re: MorphOS code
Posted on 22-May-2015 16:38:31
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@KimmoK

Pile of... pie?

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