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      /  AmiCloud - a dropbox alternative with a twist
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KimmoK 
Re: AmiCloud - a dropbox alternative with a twist
Posted on 29-Jun-2015 6:49:59
#21 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5010
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@phoenixkonsole

I imagine one can mount / mirror AmiCloud storage on locan Amiga HDD. (like dropbox on linux/win)
So, the AmiCloud file storage is capable of handling Amiga filenames & comments etc?

Trying to imagine usecase..
Locally I could have
DH1:AmiCloud/VideoEncodeToMp4/Mp4-out/ folder

I drag moviex.mpeg2 to VideoEncodeToMp4.
At some point I have moviex.mp4 on the Mp4-out folder?

Perhaps I can have VideoEncodeToMp4/
+ have generic-instruction.ctrl.txt to tell the service what I want with the folder and
moviex.mpeg2-instruction.ctrl.txt for specific file processing.

Last edited by KimmoK on 29-Jun-2015 at 07:27 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 29-Jun-2015 at 07:26 AM.

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
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phoenixkonsole 
Re: AmiCloud - a dropbox alternative with a twist
Posted on 29-Jun-2015 10:11:04
#22 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1650
From: Unknown

@KimmoK
Exactly... I am going one step further and you can convert videos to cdxl : )

Amiga meta data will be stored because the files are send encapsuled. This happens at client site, this allows also extra encryption.

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 29-Jun-2015 at 10:12 AM.

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KimmoK 
Re: AmiCloud - a dropbox alternative with a twist
Posted on 29-Jun-2015 10:22:28
#23 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5010
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@phoenixkonsole

Then you are perhaps developing the system I have been dreaming about since I got my SAM440.
In the long run it would be nice if our niche systems could come with "clustering built in" etc..

>This happens at client site, this allows also extra encryption.

Oh no, NSA will be knocking on your door!


recently read about torvalds:
" In September 2013, Torvalds was asked at the LinuxCon conference whether he had been approached by a US government agency to add backdoors into Linux; he responded with a verbal "no" while nodding his head "yes". "

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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OldAmigan 
Re: AmiCloud - a dropbox alternative with a twist
Posted on 29-Jun-2015 19:51:06
#24 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 25-Dec-2003
Posts: 522
From: Dumfries, Scotland

@thread

I don't particularly trust MS or Apple to do anything beyond what suits them. I don't particularly fancy trusting them with my data - not that I'd want to put anything that important or sensitive on the cloud anyway

Phoenixconsole has a reputation for trying to better our platform, and not just for Aeros and if he makes a little money along the way, good for him.

I do know that anytime I've ordered stuff, he's been very prompt in sending it out and if I've emailed him with a question, I usually get a prompt reply.

_________________
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========================================
A500, A600, A1200 c/w Mediator and 030
AmigaOne and OS4.1
Mac LCII, G4 Powermac running OSX + Amigakit and MorphOS 3.0
Dell Mini 10 Netbook running IcAros and AmigaForever+Amikit+AmigaSys
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phoenixkonsole 
Re: AmiCloud - a dropbox alternative with a twist
Posted on 29-Jun-2015 21:37:51
#25 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1650
From: Unknown

@OldAmigan
Thank you Fred : )

_________________
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kolla 
Re: AmiCloud - a dropbox alternative with a twist
Posted on 30-Jun-2015 4:53:42
#26 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 585
From: Trondheim, Norway

But why are all technical questions left unanswered? Are you using OwnCloud to build this service? What protocols will it support? What are the requirements for offline storage capacity (not so much storage on a Pi normally, making "sync folder" less attractive)? What kind of authentication will be used? Will it be SSO for storage, CPU time and what else you offer? How do you handle the security aspect on amigoid systems that struggle with anything SSL/TLS these days? And so forth... I miss seeing technical documantation describing the services and the protocols used.

Last edited by kolla on 30-Jun-2015 at 05:09 AM.

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: AmiCloud - a dropbox alternative with a twist
Posted on 30-Jun-2015 5:50:51
#27 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1650
From: Unknown

@kolla
kolla the ssl/Tls problem will be solved sooner than later. I ordered a solution from Daniel Müßener and it ends to be a plugIn for Hollywood. The first client as usual will be done in Hollywood but we will also have some background services written in c (plugins again) to reduce CPU load.

The API can be accessed by 3rd party tools written in whatever language you like.
For the saas part we are using our own solution. For the other stuff we just use existing stuff like vnc and xen + nvidia grid + open source moonlight.

I must admit that you are talking to the poor guy with the lowest understanding in how it is set up in detail of all involved.. I am the Al Bundy of the group... Whenever someone tips on my shoulder, I raise a fiver in the air. But I am surrounded by people who know this stuff in detail.

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 30-Jun-2015 at 05:54 AM.

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kolla 
Re: AmiCloud - a dropbox alternative with a twist
Posted on 30-Jun-2015 20:32:47
#28 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 585
From: Trondheim, Norway

@phoenixkonsole

Quote:

phoenixkonsole wrote:
@kolla
kolla the ssl/Tls problem will be solved sooner than later.


"Sooner" was a long time ago, we way into "later" and it is not looking good for any software relying on AmiSSL. The "easy" solution for developers is to statically link in latest openssl (which is what all MorphOS devs are doing), but that means recompiling all those apps whenever the need for OpenSSL update is there.

Quote:

I ordered a solution from Daniel Müßener and it ends to be a plugIn for Hollywood. The first client as usual will be done in Hollywood but we will also have some background services written in c (plugins again) to reduce CPU load.


So what did your order look like?

Quote:

The API can be accessed by 3rd party tools written in whatever language you like.


My buzzword detector is blinking, yes of course there will be an API - BUT WHAT WILL IT LOOK LIKE?!

Quote:

For the saas part we are using our own solution.


Meaning what - your own protocols?

Quote:

For the other stuff we just use existing stuff like vnc and xen + nvidia grid + open source moonlight.


Huh, where does moonlight fit into this?

Quote:

I must admit that you are talking to the poor guy with the lowest understanding in how it is set up in detail of all involved.. I am the Al Bundy of the group... Whenever someone tips on my shoulder, I raise a fiver in the air. But I am surrounded by people who know this stuff in detail.


You should have them write specs and communicate the technology then. I still very much feel that you are a one-man show. Any chance of running into you guys at CloudOpen or some storage conference any time soon? Maybe FOSDEM?

Last edited by kolla on 30-Jun-2015 at 08:33 PM.

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: AmiCloud - a dropbox alternative with a twist
Posted on 30-Jun-2015 21:02:06
#29 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1650
From: Unknown

Sooner and later depends on when somebody has started.
Our approach is multiplatform and the amiganoids are a tough place to get those things sorted out making things expensive.

I am happy that your are technically more skilled than me : )
I am a one man show but I work together with Fabio falcucci who makes the Hollywood stuff, Daniel Müßener who will solve the tls problem and mey-solutions for the server programming and hetzner as provider of the data-center collocation stuff ... Well and 3 companies I don't name yet because it could inform others gives to much info.

Yes by law I am a one man show. And André Siegel suggested to change this to a GmbH or at least ug to gain better acceptance. I see just more paperwork if I do : )

I would say if there is interest outside our community this is something to think about...
I am testing this right now with google analytics and some adverts placed on the web...

Personally I doubt it will get that much attention so I like to stay a simple one man show relying on partners.

Moonlight aka limelight is used to stream desktop environments to users which again are provided through nvidia grid.

Look I am still in the phase of building potential... 3years ago a vector based movie patent appeared... Woohoo... We released a similar but different approach just in between some month ago.... Silently only here in Amiga land. It is potential which is put into a bag of other cool things and sooner than later we will show all that together plus a few things more....

All in all I am not fighting to get rich.. I am just filling gaps I see personally... My point of view.. Some will share the interest some will not. Some will compare us with others some will be happy that there is something at all... We will try the best and add features and so on even if we stay only in the Amiga community (aros, mos, aos).

About meeting.. What about the Amiga event in Neuss?

https://youtu.be/HGPYFf5HwYU
Don't underestimate how much fun it can make just to work on things ; )
I am learning always new things : )

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 30-Jun-2015 at 09:04 PM.

_________________
AROS Broadway - AEROS - Aminux - AmiCloud - indieGO! Appstore - AmiWallet - VAN lossless video codec - AMC Amiga media Center -KrypUnite - LibertyNet - MinX - amigaNX

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kolla 
Re: AmiCloud - a dropbox alternative with a twist
Posted on 1-Jul-2015 7:55:08
#30 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 585
From: Trondheim, Norway

@phoenixkonsole

I just find all your "products" overly optimistic and unrealistic - that you are not a technical person as much as someone who just spins on ideas and expect them to work "just like that" doesn't help. I do have years of experience in running this kind of services, and for them to be successfull you need a lot of redundancy and a responce team - not single individuals.

Last edited by kolla on 01-Jul-2015 at 08:00 AM.

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: AmiCloud - a dropbox alternative with a twist
Posted on 1-Jul-2015 8:12:14
#31 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1650
From: Unknown

@kolla
I am paying people who are likely even more professional than you and me together.
The difference between us is I am doing something while you are just a naysayer : )

I have a goal in my eyes which will be done by people who can do it.
Why do you believe that I am working on it by my self?

Working just like that.... I am paying so trust me I know that it is not just about glueing snippets together... This project started in 2013 on the paper...

Relax Kolla : )

I am just the guy with the idea..call it dream if you like.
My technically incompetence in things like server related stuff doesn't hurt this because I don't personally work on this.

Again I am a sort of investor and project leader... Nothing more.

.....
Edit:
Ahh you are working in that field? Good to know ; ) so cut the first sentence about them being more professional ...

EDIT:
Kolla, important info about my "Motivation":
I am happy if I can keep developers busy, I am thinking out of the box and try to find solution in our micro System around Amiga..

I enjoy working on the Projects.. "Der Weg ist das Ziel" = "The journey is its own reward"

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 01-Jul-2015 at 08:23 AM.
Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 01-Jul-2015 at 08:18 AM.
Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 01-Jul-2015 at 08:16 AM.
Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 01-Jul-2015 at 08:15 AM.

_________________
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Pleng 
Re: AmiCloud - a dropbox alternative with a twist
Posted on 1-Jul-2015 10:29:47
#32 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 17-Nov-2005
Posts: 450
From: Unknown

@phoenixkonsole
Quote:

I am paying people who are likely even more professional than you and me together.
The difference between us is I am doing something while you are just a naysayer : )


And what happens when the money dries up or you just plain loose interest?
Your business model so far does not install confidence.

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: AmiCloud - a dropbox alternative with a twist
Posted on 1-Jul-2015 10:50:09
#33 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1650
From: Unknown

@Pleng
Hmm interesting question.
You mean like Sony who canceled otherOS function in ps3?
Or Apple canceling support for older models?
Or Ubuntu which closed their cloud service?

Well if you don't trust, don't use it.
If money dries up we will have the 3rd world war.
Also I am sure if it works someone else will be interested to continue.
Don't bound it to much to my person.. I am more open regarding colaboration than you may believe..

EDIT:
The costs for our community which I believe is around 3k potential users are covered. No problemo at this Point.

Now I believe that maybe 100 People in AmigaOS, 10 in AROS land and 50 in MorphOS land will be interested to buy. ... a huge Delta to 3k.
The bigest number will be AEROS users

So in other words:
I have enough ressources to serve more users than I believe will actually use it.

If it goes beyond expectations.. well than I will do it like the german democratic republic and build a wall. Limiting user numbers(blocking new rgistrations). If enough users use additional Features we will grow, if not it will stay at Minimum and is nice to have.

EDIT:
Confidence regarding business plan..
Development costs and ressources cost are covered by sales (AEROS, Ares-shop,ebay,engineering stuff and Money lending) it is ok... +/- 0 .
As soon development is done and we get a fiver per user, we will have again additional 5ers... not much but enough to start new smaller Projects. We have plenty of idea and need Cola, Pizza, Pasta and from time to time a beer..

business plan : D .. good one. I do a + and - table and when i get a 0 or +1€ I am happy and covered my Hobby expenses while paying developers to enjoy their Hobby and create new Features we are lacking.

In worst case it is covered. In best case it produces extra Revenue. Simple rule.

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 01-Jul-2015 at 11:22 AM.
Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 01-Jul-2015 at 11:19 AM.
Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 01-Jul-2015 at 11:07 AM.
Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 01-Jul-2015 at 10:51 AM.
Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 01-Jul-2015 at 10:51 AM.
Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 01-Jul-2015 at 10:50 AM.

_________________
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ASiegel 
Re: AmiCloud - a dropbox alternative with a twist
Posted on 1-Jul-2015 16:22:04
#34 ]
Member
Joined: 22-Oct-2013
Posts: 80
From: Unknown

@phoenixkonsole

Quote:
I am aware of this but I can cover those costs for a limited number of users with earnings from other things(I have fixed income via passive positions). Also I am happy if existing resources will be used at all. Of course this model was planned for our small community which minimizes my monthly loss. In case this will be accepted by a larger user base... Well than I am free to change the model for new users and keep the good conditions for existing users, funders or maybe limited to some target platforms. Also I am believing that one or two will use additional services, which reduce my costs or at best bring some income. Whatever I have a handbrake regarding costs. I can block new registrations when needed. At the end it is something for us (amigans).


My concerns are not related to any hosting or colocation fees. As I wrote, I doubt you have the resources " to keep your cloud infrastructure well maintained and secure for any extended period of time." If you run a service like this, you need to have technical staff available in some capacity 24 hours a day and 7 days a week.

Quote:
And André Siegel suggested to change this to a GmbH or at least ug to gain better acceptance. I see just more paperwork if I do : )


What I wrote was that if someone is asking for 750,000 EUR on Kickstarter, it is highly recommended to have a company with limited liability handle the project in order to shield your personal assets from any potential legal issues (trademark or patent disputes, for instance) and that it would also look more credible to potential investors if someone had bothered to complete the necessary paperwork for this step.

Of course, this would indeed be a major waste of time if the Kickstarter fundraising effort was really just another joke project that is not to be taken seriously.

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: AmiCloud - a dropbox alternative with a twist
Posted on 1-Jul-2015 17:46:49
#35 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1650
From: Unknown

@ASiegel
Ok, we will see : )
Personally I am sleeping next to my galaxy note and I have 24/7 access even when I am sitting on the toilet. But again: I will pay others for the work plus I can react as well.

_________________
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Pleng 
Re: AmiCloud - a dropbox alternative with a twist
Posted on 2-Jul-2015 6:15:18
#36 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 17-Nov-2005
Posts: 450
From: Unknown

@phoenixkonsole

Quote:

Hmm interesting question.
You mean like Sony who canceled otherOS function in ps3?
Or Apple canceling support for older models?
Or Ubuntu which closed their cloud service?


Yes, I mean *exactly* like those issues. Pointing out a long list of other services that have been pulled doesn't automatically give yours more credibility. In fact it just installs even bigger concerns in any potential customers.

Quote:

Personally I am sleeping next to my galaxy note and I have 24/7 access even when I am sitting on the toilet.


Great... that's what you want... technical support on the bog!

Quote:

But again: I will pay others for the work plus I can react as well.


And what happens when you can't find somebody to write an urgent security patch? Or not for a price that you can afford? I had trouble finding people to sort out a small amount of code in a Unity project... a community way larger than the current Amigas.

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kolla 
Re: AmiCloud - a dropbox alternative with a twist
Posted on 2-Jul-2015 7:06:46
#37 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 585
From: Trondheim, Norway

AmiStore could simply be samba shares, which is mountable for anyone, no need to develop anything.

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KimmoK 
Re: AmiCloud - a dropbox alternative with a twist
Posted on 2-Jul-2015 7:13:39
#38 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5010
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@kolla

Does samba support Amiga filesystems? (file names and file comments?)

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: AmiCloud - a dropbox alternative with a twist
Posted on 2-Jul-2015 7:36:11
#39 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1650
From: Unknown

@kolla
Interesting especially for People who like to configure samba on all of their devices.

Of course you can do everything alone.. this is what drove me to do this.
But I wan't a integrated solution for my own distributions and offer it as standalone Client for everyone else.

The Client doesnt need to be manually Setup on all of your devices. And you get faster up- and download Speeds than if you build something at home.

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 02-Jul-2015 at 07:36 AM.

_________________
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phoenixkonsole 
Re: AmiCloud - a dropbox alternative with a twist
Posted on 2-Jul-2015 7:40:17
#40 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1650
From: Unknown

@Pleng
You got it still wrong... on the Server side we use existing services. I am one Person but i am managing the Needs of 1,5k+ paying users.. so I am still small but can make better deals than if you contact them alone as "normal user"..
So 24/7 Support is paid because i use existing Services located in Germany for better conditions.

Plus I can sit on the hog and check it by myself... which is a plus IMHO.


Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 02-Jul-2015 at 07:40 AM.

_________________
AROS Broadway - AEROS - Aminux - AmiCloud - indieGO! Appstore - AmiWallet - VAN lossless video codec - AMC Amiga media Center -KrypUnite - LibertyNet - MinX - amigaNX

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