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LimoU.Sin 
Elite Dangerous for Xbox One?
Posted on 8-Jul-2015 11:08:02
#1 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Jul-2015
Posts: 133
From: Unknown

I was not a big player of Elite back on Amiga and C64 but I remember the game very well.

https://www.elitedangerous.com/en/xboxone

Would the new Amiga One gaming consoles be able to run this game?

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Rob 
Re: Elite Dangerous for Xbox One?
Posted on 8-Jul-2015 14:40:32
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales

@LimoU.Sin

Amiga One gaming consoles?

OS4 doesn't have the API's needed in place yet and while recommended GPU requirments could be met the CPU's we currently have lag well behind the minimum recommended for this game.

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Hypex 
Re: Elite Dangerous for Xbox One?
Posted on 8-Jul-2015 15:05:16
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@LimoU.Sin

Quote:
Amiga One gaming consoles


I haven't seen any news of this. Where did you find it?

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BrianHoskins 
Re: Elite Dangerous for Xbox One?
Posted on 8-Jul-2015 15:25:08
#4 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Jan-2003
Posts: 726
From: South Wales, UK

@LimoU.Sin

I'm not a big games person these days, but I adored Frontier Elite on the Amiga. Many months were lost on it. I say "lost", but it was a MASSIVE amount of fun. Ultimately, though, I've got nothing to show for the time that was spent. I was discussing this with a friend the other day; we spend a staggering amount of time becoming really good at complex games like this, but none of the skills are transferable to real life. And in that respect, the time was "lost".

When I heard of Elite Dangerous I followed its development closely, and after its release I watched some videos online; I was absolutely astounded. I am in awe of it. I don't own a modern games console, but I really considered buying one JUST to play this game on it.

The thing is, if I entered that 400 billion star system game I fear that I may never come back out! I would grow a beard, get fat, and probably end up homeless.



...Okay, maybe an exaggeration. But my point is; time is our most precious asset. And, as much as I'd dearly love to spend a bunch of it on Elite Dangerous, I don't think I can afford to.

Still, I hope you enjoy!!!

Last edited by BrianHoskins on 08-Jul-2015 at 03:27 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Elite Dangerous for Xbox One?
Posted on 8-Jul-2015 15:41:21
#5 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12795
From: Norway

@LimoU.Sin

AmigaONE is not a console; it is more like a computer. Think big box Amiga (Amiga 4000, Amiga 3000, Amiga 2000), maybe you are confused as we use PowerPC CPU, and so do most consoles.

You can theoretically you can setup a AmigaONE computer as a console, by deleting the Workbench boot partition, and just boot into the kickstart (kernel files), you will then be presented by a boring insert CD screen, just like your BlueRay or DVD player.

If do you need to make bootable CD, and copy some OS files to it, so the games have what it needs, copyrights and distribution rights might get tricky.

You used to only need a floppy disk and kickstart in ROM, in the old days (Amiga 1000, Amiga 500, Amiga 600, Amiga 1200, Amiga CDTV, Amiga CD32).

Now you need a TCP/IP stack, USB drivers, and 3D and 2D libraries, and AHI the sound system, so many things are not included in the kickstart.

Most quality 3D games are made in Unreal Engine, we don't have that, most of the 3D games we have are made in different versions of Quake 1 , 2 and 3 Engine.

In the old days (1988), game engines where something you need to write yourself, etch games where unique, 3D api's did not exist, you need to write your own software rendering routines. The only part of Amiga computers that helped 3D games was hardware accelerated fill that there were only colored polygons. No texture graphics back then, no shades. Elite Frontier has come long way from back then.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 08-Jul-2015 at 03:51 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 08-Jul-2015 at 03:44 PM.

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LimoU.Sin 
Re: Elite Dangerous for Xbox One?
Posted on 8-Jul-2015 21:28:16
#6 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Jul-2015
Posts: 133
From: Unknown

@Rob
Thanks for clarification.


@Hypex
Sorry my mistake, thought Amiga One had something to do with real Amiga machines. As far as I can remember Amiga was kind of combined work PC and game console just like today's home Personal Computers are.


@BrianHoskins
Yep I realize. Age often lead to responsibilities which can be time consuming. But still me fire up some games now and then, sometimes at the expense of other responsibilities so I must take responsibility for ensuring that it doesn't go beyond the most important responsibilities. Its almost like prioritizing the most important things and I put games into that bundle and kick out something less important.

Personally I enjoyed games like Gods on the Amiga, that was and still is a good game... Currently is The Elder Scrolls on the TV trough my PC one of my prioritized important responsibilities.


@NutsAboutAmiga
Yes a bit confused because I thought PPC was only Nintendo who used in the game consoles nowadays, Xbox One and Playstation 4 uses AMD X86 CPUs. I think PPC was dropped on these consoles because it would make it easier to support both consoles for game and software developers. And yes i remember machine coding and assembler was mostly used in 1988 so time obviously changes.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Elite Dangerous for Xbox One?
Posted on 8-Jul-2015 22:44:36
#7 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12795
From: Norway

@LimoU.Sin

Quote:
Far as I can remember Amiga was kind of combined work PC and game console just like today's home Personal Computers are.


One time RAM and hard-drives where expensive, and this things where optional add-ons, Amiga has always been a Personal computer, but not an IBM compatible computer .

The more expensive versions always came with Hard-drive the Amiga 2000, Amiga 3000 and Amiga 4000 desktop versions.

Sense then we entered 1990's and hard drives become more common, Martin Blom developed AHI sound system around 1992 or 1993, it driver package / sound system that was not included in the OS, you need to install, yourself to use modern sound cards.

And then came ReTargetable Graphics, and true color graphics become popular as a add-ons, standard PC graphics chips where put on Zorro cards for the Amiga computer.

Commodore them self, was too slow to see the writings on the wall, and computer in 1990's where products that came with too low specifications to compete with highly comparative market at the time.

The start of the end of Amiga chipset was Draco Systems that was produced for video editing, after commodore when bankrupt, this computers where first AmigaOS compatible computers that, did not have full chipset support, then came Amitalon a software emulation package where dropped chipset emulation, and the final came the AmigaONE computers.

So it has been a long journey, with many broken promises and ownership changes.

What AmigaONE offers is computer for people who used Amiga as more than a game console, maybe for drawing graphics, music, and programming.

There is JIT compiler included in AmigaOS4, which takes care of translating 680x0 machine code into PowerPC machine code, when needed. on AmigaOS4 runs PowerPC programs and 680x0 programs side by side (so this programs can talk to each other), AmigaOS does take care of old program or new. Without Amiga chipsets (Angus, Paula, Dense, Alice) you will run into problems with compatibility. To solve that AmigaOS4 also includes UAE as fallback when you need it.

The choice of the PowerPC CPU was done by Phase5, they produced accelerator cards for Amiga computers, and intruded the PowerPC when it head a bright future. When the choice to go with PowerPC in Eyetech AmigaONE's where made, it looked like PowerPC compete well with Intel chips at the time; by the time it did take to write the OS and bring it to market. Apple decided to drop PowerPC, so we where left alone using PowerPC chips in desktop computers.

PowerPC today is in use by the military, NASA, Game consoles, entrapment systems on airplanes (heat per watt is important if don't won't start fire), in robotics, for assembly lines, internet routers, printers, the most powerful super computers are Power based.

PowerPC is combative in niche markets, but later years we see ARM products getting comparative on price/speed where traditionally PowerPC has been the only option.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 08-Jul-2015 at 10:52 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 08-Jul-2015 at 10:49 PM.

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LimoU.Sin 
Re: Elite Dangerous for Xbox One?
Posted on 8-Jul-2015 23:55:52
#8 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Jul-2015
Posts: 133
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

A hard drive was quite expensive at the time and it was not so consistent with expensive games and playing only, but some Amiga 1200s came with HD and I can remember the sidecar hard drives for the Amiga 500.



And wasn't it only a very few Apple desktop computers that used PowerPC back in the Phase 5 days? I think it was only used for some heavy creation software from Adobe and Steinberg around here and not much in private PCs other than perhaps game consoles like playstation? I can remember Nintendo 64 used RISC cpu and Dreamcast too.


On the few Phase 5 cards the PPC processor was mostly used as a kind of offloading CPU working in parallel with the 68K CPU taking care of rendering and heavier work, quite advanced at the time but not really nessesary.

If you go back to the Amiga age 68k CPU was very much in use related to both home computers and pure gaming, just look at all the arkade machines, very many used 68k and Atari used it too.


So if you wanted to stick with the desktop world PowerPC was a very strange choice, wasn't it?

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KimmoK 
Re: Elite Dangerous for Xbox One?
Posted on 9-Jul-2015 9:18:34
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@Elite

IMO: Elite is the greatest computer game of all times.

I wonder what kind of money would be needed to make Elite dangerous appear for modern Amigas...?


(and in the meanwhile ... anyone made any progress with Oolite port???)
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=28175&forum=32#660424

some elitefun:
http://os4depot.net/index.php?function=showfile&file=game/misc/melite.lha

Last edited by KimmoK on 09-Jul-2015 at 09:26 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 09-Jul-2015 at 09:21 AM.

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Elite Dangerous for Xbox One?
Posted on 9-Jul-2015 10:40:27
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12795
From: Norway

@LimoU.Sin

Quote:
So if you wanted to stick with the desktop world PowerPC was a very strange choice, wasn't it?


We did the same as Apple for the same reasons, only "a few" years after.

MacOS7.x.x Machintos 680x0.
MacOS7.6.x Machintos 680x0, first version of MacOS with some PowerPC support.
(Around 1995/1996.)
MacOS8.x is for 680x0 and PowerPC, IMac, PowerMac.
(Around 1997/1998)
MacOS9 is for PowerPC only, IMac (1999)
MacOSX for Intel / PowerPC.
Now they use only Intel.

Phase5 made there accelerator card around the same time as MacOS8 was on market.
when they started taking about AmigaOS4, Apple hardware was running MacOS9.

So it did make sense at the time, and also the PowerPC CPU's are big endinen CPU's, so are 680x0 CPU's, this means that data is stored the same way by CPU, so it made sense when you wonted backwords compatibilty.

Sure Apple manged later to run PowerPC apps on Intel CPU's using fat binraries and Rosetta JIT, but that was not easyly done.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 09-Jul-2015 at 12:06 PM.

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cdimauro 
Re: Elite Dangerous for Xbox One?
Posted on 9-Jul-2015 17:39:10
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3621
From: Germany

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:

When the choice to go with PowerPC in Eyetech AmigaONE's where made, it looked like PowerPC compete well with Intel chips at the time; by the time it did take to write the OS and bring it to market.

By that time (in 2000) Intel chips already competed very well with PowerPCs, and that's why even Apple (one of the PowerPCs' founders) decided to move from PowerPCs to Intel.

In fact, the upcoming MacOS X was working on x86 a the primary architecture.

This decision was not taken only because a rampant IBM's manager (which late became the Freescale's CEO) convinced Jobs that his company should give her a better PowerPC processor, the G5. Otherwise MacOS X would have run on x86 from the very beginning.

So, PowerPCs weren't already on a good shape on that period. The decision to stick with PowerPCs, and later to port the Amiga o.s. to such architectures, was plainly wrong. Another Amiga Inc's mistake...
Quote:
Apple decided to drop PowerPC, so we where left alone using PowerPC chips in desktop computers.

See above. The decision was just delayed, and happened when Apple became aware that even a G5 wasn't able to compete with Intel's processors.
Quote:
PowerPC today is in use by the military, NASA, Game consoles, entrapment systems on airplanes (heat per watt is important if don't won't start fire), in robotics, for assembly lines, internet routers, printers,

But its market share is dropping...
Quote:
the most powerful super computers are Power based.

That's not true: they are Intel/x86-based.

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cdimauro 
Re: Elite Dangerous for Xbox One?
Posted on 9-Jul-2015 17:41:48
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3621
From: Germany

@LimoU.Sin

Quote:

LimoU.Sin wrote:

So if you wanted to stick with the desktop world PowerPC was a very strange choice, wasn't it?

Absolutely. It comes from a lack of vision of Amiga Inc. See my previous comment.

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cdimauro 
Re: Elite Dangerous for Xbox One?
Posted on 9-Jul-2015 17:48:09
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3621
From: Germany

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:

So it did make sense at the time,

Absolutely no.
Quote:
and also the PowerPC CPU's are big endinen CPU's, so are 680x0 CPU's, this means that data is stored the same way by CPU, so it made sense when you wonted backwords compatibilty.

That's the only good reason, however this way they also crippled the future of the o.s..
Quote:
Sure Apple manged later to run PowerPC apps on Intel CPU's using fat binraries and Rosetta JIT, but that was not easyly done.

On the contrary: it was much easier, because MacOS exposed an abstract interface to the applications, so it's fairly simple "tunneling" the old o.s./sys calls to the new ones, in a transparent way.

The Amiga o.s., instead, publicly exposes its structures and provides no abstraction. So, no tuneling is possibile. Add that's also why, after 30 years, it inherits all defects, and it's so much fragile.

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olsen 
Re: Elite Dangerous for Xbox One?
Posted on 9-Jul-2015 20:06:26
#14 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 15-Aug-2004
Posts: 774
From: Germany

@LimoU.Sin

Quote:

LimoU.Sin wrote:
I was not a big player of Elite back on Amiga and C64 but I remember the game very well.

https://www.elitedangerous.com/en/xboxone

Would the new Amiga One gaming consoles be able to run this game?


When the game was announced and became available for funding on Kickstarter I immediately chipped in

The game is by now playable (it took its time to mature) and has become more interesting than merely being a modern version of the old "Elite". I just wish I could spend more time playing it, the major obstacle being that you need a rather powerful machine to actually get something out of it. On my home computer (bought in 2012) it does not work as well as I would like to.

The game will likely run well on the Xbox One, but I doubt it can be made to run well on Amiga machines - yet.

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Rob 
Re: Elite Dangerous for Xbox One?
Posted on 10-Jul-2015 7:26:42
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales

@olsen

No Man's Sky looks like it will be something pretty special too.

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salass00 
Re: Elite Dangerous for Xbox One?
Posted on 10-Jul-2015 8:03:15
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 31-Oct-2003
Posts: 2707
From: Finland

@LimoU.Sin

I will probably be getting the PS4 version when it comes out (I got myself a PS4 to play Bloodborne when it came out) since my PC is too old and weak to play new games at decent speed (also it runs Ubuntu exclusively since a few years back which doesn't really help either when most PC games are Windows-only).

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LimoU.Sin 
Re: Elite Dangerous for Xbox One?
Posted on 10-Jul-2015 12:09:18
#17 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Jul-2015
Posts: 133
From: Unknown

@olsen
The recommended system requirements seems quite high I can see. I think my PC falls into a spot around midway between the minimum and recommended system requirements. Bad system hungry realtime virus scanners and unnecessary stuff running in the background should at least be turned off, I'm not even using any realtime virus or malware checker and just running it manually once a while.

An old friend of mine is a big fan of Elite and chipped in on the Kickstarter funding too. He even still have some maps or something hanging on the wall over his computer bench from the first Elite games.

Wasn't there complaints about the online only mode by the way, is it still online only?


@salass00
It's more than ten years since I bought a pure game console, if one can call them pure because they are full of multimedia software and Linux can be installed as well. I think my PC do a much better job though it may be a little bit more clutter some times.

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olsen 
Re: Elite Dangerous for Xbox One?
Posted on 10-Jul-2015 13:35:53
#18 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 15-Aug-2004
Posts: 774
From: Germany

@Rob

Quote:

Rob wrote:
@olsen

No Man's Sky looks like it will be something pretty special too.
Definitely - but I'll wait for the reviews to come in. Making procedurally content interesting is a particularly difficult feat to pull off, and I'd rather not get stuck with a pretty screen saver of sorts

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olsen 
Re: Elite Dangerous for Xbox One?
Posted on 10-Jul-2015 13:43:13
#19 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 15-Aug-2004
Posts: 774
From: Germany

@LimoU.Sin

Quote:

LimoU.Sin wrote:
@olsen
The recommended system requirements seems quite high I can see. I think my PC falls into a spot around midway between the minimum and recommended system requirements. Bad system hungry realtime virus scanners and unnecessary stuff running in the background should at least be turned off, I'm not even using any realtime virus or malware checker and just running it manually once a while.
I, too, have a machine which sits somewhere between the lower and the upper edges of the system requirements. But my problem is different in that I am trying to make the most of the Mac version. The Mac version is hobbled by what the operating system permits, namely 3D rendering performance. While the game does its best on the platform, it feels like the effort spent on making it work well only translates into getting halfway there. Oh well...
Quote:

An old friend of mine is a big fan of Elite and chipped in on the Kickstarter funding too. He even still have some maps or something hanging on the wall over his computer bench from the first Elite games.

Wasn't there complaints about the online only mode by the way, is it still online only?
It requires that your machine is online during the game, but there are two faces to this online mode.

The first type of online mode involves player-to-player interaction in an open universe, which includes the simulation of the intergalactic markets, as well as recording criminal status, discoveries and player ranking.

The second type does not include player-to-player interaction and only draws upon the interplanetary market simulation. This second type requires a much lower bandwidth Internet connection than the first type. Also, the second type is free of player "griefing", which I consider worthwhile. Computer-simulated goons are perfectly adequate

Last edited by olsen on 10-Jul-2015 at 01:43 PM.

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LimoU.Sin 
Re: Elite Dangerous for Xbox One?
Posted on 10-Jul-2015 17:48:11
#20 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Jul-2015
Posts: 133
From: Unknown

@olsen

Well the second type is perhaps more what I heard there were complaints about was missing even though its still online.

Never played any MMO games, not quite sure why but those who play MMO games i know of spends a huge amount of continuous time on it. I prefer a real pause button to stop the whole game when I want.

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