@hotrod

Quote:

I love amigans... any new idea to improve the userbase gets resistense imidatly.

"Realism" and "Resistance" both begin with an R.

That's about all they have in common though, so it's uprising how easily they get confused with each other around here...

@OlafS25

"I still do not see the advantage compared to existing hardware except being PPC and thus attractive to AmigaOS and perhaps MorphOS user"

From user point of view, there might be no advantage at all.
But as long as main OSs are only for PPC, there really is no alternative.

(and it does not change things radically if our current systems would be compiled to some mainstream HW. One would still need a lot of work to attract new users to buy the OS and to buy the supported HW.)

+

So, IMO, current NG problems/challenges vs growth:
-lack of SW and maturity vs mainstream
-user must buy expensive HW

With low cost PPC we would have:
-lack of SW and maturity vs mainstream
-user must buy the 200EUR HW

With AOS/MOS ported to some x86 HW combination:
-lack of SW and maturity vs mainstream
-user must buy the compatible HW (x86 starts from 200EUR)

+

If WinUAE would be officially supported and good OS bundle is made:
-lack of SW and maturity vs mainstream
-user must buy the Windows compatible, unless own it allready

Last edited by KimmoK on 07-Aug-2015 at 12:55 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 07-Aug-2015 at 12:53 PM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@Pleng

So the reality is that what can be done has been done and there are no other way to improve the sales of the Amiga? The reality is that those complaining isn't the reason for the Amiga still being around. I don't see how a negative attitude and sharp tounge has ever improved on anything and that includes the personal health. Any fool can complain. Try to bring some good ideas instead or support those who does. It's thanks to them that you can sit on this site and complain about things.

@KimmoK

I never claimed that... as long as you do not see AmigaOS (or Aros or whatever) as a pure fun platform not recommended for professional use (security in internet comes to my mind and of course missing software in all areas and new special software) you have to invest lots of money in OS and in software and you would need drivers for the hardware.

@KimmoK

you get certainly hardware below 200$ there. And the risk for hardware development and production is not there. That is a important point because I see noone willing and able to take the risks (perhaps theoretical Trevor D. but it is a hobby for him).

@KimmoK

Quote:

With low cost PPC we would have: -lack of SW and maturity vs mainstream -user must buy the 200EUR HW

What 200 EURO PPC motherboard/CPU are you talking about?

Last edited by damocles on 07-Aug-2015 at 01:29 PM.

_________________
Dammy

@damocles

>What 200 EURO PPC motherboard/CPU are you talking about?

Some imaginary new one.
(simple like in LimeBook, Efika, P-Cuped, but with T10xx from freescale)
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=40459&forum=2&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0#765736

Last edited by KimmoK on 07-Aug-2015 at 01:41 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 07-Aug-2015 at 01:39 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 07-Aug-2015 at 01:38 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 07-Aug-2015 at 01:34 PM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@Chris_Y

AmigaOne eXtreme Graphics?

I've been pondering on a new "Amiga" design for a little while. In AF I saw a preview of the Mega65 which aims to be the unreleased C65 and then some. There is also new hardware still being designed for the C64. This got me thinking, at the two Amiga clubs I goto, there is not much interest in OS4 or "AmigaOne" machines. That is, if one turns up (mine), it gets attention but the interest seems more of a novelty. People want to play with and see real Amiga machines. Even an ECS A500 gets attention which has been inferior to AGA for 20 years.

So I think what would be good is a new retro Amiga design. This wouldn't be designed to take over the world or even to run OS4. It would be to extend the Amiga chipset to a level of what it should have been before AGA was left as the last man standing. You could think in terms of MimiMig (I hate that name) or Natami.

I'm not sure if it would include AGA as that is complciated and would obviously prevent the flashy games working. But it would build on ECS as a base reference. And then extend that to include 24-bit true colour capability and 16-bit sound. With perhaps ideas from post-AGA Amiga chipset designs. Likely it would FPGA based.

It would have some kind of 68K CPU by whatever means. I imagine it would have its own case with the usual modern ports on the back. Perhaps like an A1200 but in black with modern silver bits.

Last edited by Hypex on 07-Aug-2015 at 05:12 PM.

@Chris_Y

I think it is a great idea. In fact I would like to expand on it a bit...

I would like to add features like a cable/antennae input with a buffered input that would allow you to watch TV, Cable etc.. and have the ability to record, rewind live TV. I have looked for such a device and nothing comes without a subscription...YUK! Also, it could be a full fledged computer as you said.

Also, it is not unusual to have a bunch of people shoot down your ideas. People by nature are usually pretty closed minded and are resistant to change. The key reason why most people do not succeed is because they are afraid of change and afraid of failure, so they feel comfortable leaving things the way they are and can't see any possibility outside of their safe bubble. The biggest difference between a successful person and the average person is that the successful person takes risks, fails many times, but gets back up and tries again and again until they succeed.

..and by the way, people can be convinced to buy pet rocks and $1 bottles of water that is not regulated as well as the gallon of water I can get out of the tap. With the right marketing anything can be sold.

The Amiga could sell and could be popular, it just takes getting away from the rest of the sheep and trying a few new ideas that may or may not work. The Amiga would have been a pretty boring computer if the same sheep mentality had been applied when the Amiga was born.

@Chris_Y

Hardware for a mass market of retro gamers must be cheap.

Naturally you would end up with something like a RaspberryPI with an ARM, MIPS or x386 like SoC. Currently AOS4 doesn't support such systems and Linux would provide a lot of Applications, Games and maybe a good UAE.

To be honest, others have tried before without any success and AOS4 (ported or on PPC) would make everything more complicated and more expensive same for MOS and maybe AROS.

@hotrod

Quote:

So the reality is that what can be done has been done and there are no other way to improve the sales of the Amiga? The reality is that those complaining isn't the reason for the Amiga still being around. I don't see how a negative attitude and sharp tounge has ever improved on anything and that includes the personal health. Any fool can complain. Try to bring some good ideas instead or support those who does. It's thanks to them that you can sit on this site and complain about things.

ah. again this is us who resist all improvement and are responsible for the current state of affairs because we have not applauded each and any idea just anybody comes up with. it lays definitely in our hands and our responsibility. the companies in question have already been contacted, expressed their enthusiasm and are ready to go as soon as we are.

@nzv58l

Quote:

I think it is a great idea. In fact I would like to expand on it a bit... I would like to add features like a cable/antennae input with a buffered input that would allow you to watch TV, Cable etc.. and have the ability to record, rewind live TV. I have looked for such a device and nothing comes without a subscription...YUK! Also, it could be a full fledged computer as you said.

remins me somehow of:

http://www.natami.net/knowledge.php?b=3¬e=3808&z=v-5Lto

;)

@KimmoK

Quote:

KimmoK wrote: @damocles >What 200 EURO PPC motherboard/CPU are you talking about? Some imaginary new one.

As long as it's imaginary, it's fine for OS4 to be ported to it. ;)

Here is a novel idea, how about porting OS4 to existing hardware that is already selling in the millions of units and still in production?

_________________
Dammy

@RodTerl

Quote:

RodTerl wrote: @itix I find it hilarious that people still call the Pi 2 a hobby machine, when numerically at least, its on par with the PC I am typing this on, certaily within an order of magnitude, and on that I play Second Life.

I find it somewhat funny that you post this in response to a post that doesn't call the Raspberry Pi 2 anything.
I also wonder what specifications your PC setup have. It'd have to be a slow Intel Atom device compared compared to the RBP2 while running good multi-threaded code. Even then I don't see how it could be "on par".

Quote:

Or, if you really want a better example, the 3DS has BattleMiner, a Minecraft clone, which runs very quickly indeed. the Pi 2 is stupid times more powerful than the 3DS NG.

And? I don't remember anybody stating that the new 3DS is a good comparison point nor that the RBP2 is slower than it.

Quote:

Dont forget the Opera Web browser for internet access, Youtube channel, etc etc. There are 7 billion people on this planet.. Most of them cant even afford a £10 mobile phone with Facebook and Java, never mind a Pi, never mind a PC. If you want to use all the multiple layers to try and secure your code, first, use a platform that has a hardware security chip so you dont have to bother, and two, realise that no matter how much of your customers money you spend trying to make it so called secure, inside jobs and hacks will mean the pirates will be able to grab teh data and sell it cheaper. So, make it cheaper where possible in the first place. Old code, simple code, compact fast code for starters.

So what have that to do with this thread?

Quote:

How come, after all these decades, that there isnt a simple register called fast fourer transform hardware block extension, given its used even more than increment decrement?

You really are a kook...

@OlafS25

Quote:

to eastablish a new hardware you need a complete new set of software (both applications and entertainment including games). Would be very very expensive.

If you use Linux, you have that already, you just need to find a way to sell the software without breaking the licenses.
In any case even with Linux you need do some work make it a consume product, smooth out the edges, and hide geek Linux shell stuff, that users should not need to spend time on.

_________________
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/
Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

@damocles

Yes, PowerPC was not designed for Amiga products only, there has to be hardware out there that is PowerPC based that is used for consumer electronics today.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 07-Aug-2015 at 09:34 PM.

_________________
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/
Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

Let us look back and imagine what nay sayers would have said about the original Amiga before it came out:

Custom chips! Your crazy, do you know how much that would cost? Those extra chips would probably slow things down from having to communicate between them and make the system slow and unusable.

Digitized sound. Why do you need sound? It's just a computer and computers don't need sound. (I actually heard this from a number of PC users at the time.) Digitized sound would take up too much memory and storage, better to have a SID chip instead.

4096 colors: Why do you need so many colors, It will be impossible to display that, and even if you did, it would eat up too much memory and the refresh rate would be terrible. I don't see any reason to use more than 16 colors. In fact the Green terminal screen has a much better refresh rate. Color is going to take too much memory.

The Amiga would have never seen the light of day if anyone listened back then. The Amiga at the time was a huge pipe dream. Commodore came along and put some cash into it to make it a reality and made something really radical and special. Commodore did a terrible job of marketing with it, because there was nothing that even came close to it in performance or function.

I think a set top box/games console is kind of what the Amiga's original goal was. I like things to be flexible, so to have an idea like this to me does not mean that every AmigaOne will be a set top box/games console. I would also like the AmigaOne to be more mobile, and I also like it as a desktop as well. Although being a desktop is kind of old fashion for todays crowd that wants to take their technology with them.

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote: In any case even with Linux you need do some work make it a consume product, smooth out the edges, and hide geek Linux shell stuff, that users should not need to spend time on.

Why? From where comes this assumption that users should not need to spend time in CLI?

Most users I have had contact with, including my mom, love learning a command line shell, because unlike user interfaces, the CLIs do not change every second year, so what you learn remains useful. Also using CLI empowers them, they feel awesome typing commands, learning them one after the other, and reading the output. Giving support over phone to someone using CLI is way more easy than with GUI.

I find it ironic how these days, everyone is supposed to learn "programming", yet heavens forbid we ever have to use a CLI.

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@nzv58l

Quote:

by nzv58l on 7-Aug-2015 21:37:10 Let us look back and imagine what nay sayers would have said about the original Amiga before it came out: Custom chips! Your crazy, do you know how much that would cost? Those extra chips would probably slow things down from having to communicate between them and make the system slow and unusable. Digitized sound. Why do you need sound? It's just a computer and computers don't need sound. (I actually heard this from a number of PC users at the time.) Digitized sound would take up too much memory and storage, better to have a SID chip instead. 4096 colors: Why do you need so many colors, It will be impossible to display that, and even if you did, it would eat up too much memory and the refresh rate would be terrible. I don't see any reason to use more than 16 colors. In fact the Green terminal screen has a much better refresh rate. Color is going to take too much memory. The Amiga would have never seen the light of day if anyone listened back then. The Amiga at the time was a huge pipe dream. Commodore came along and put some cash into it to make it a reality and made something really radical and special. Commodore did a terrible job of marketing with it, because there was nothing that even came close to it in performance or function. I think a set top box/games console is kind of what the Amiga's original goal was. I like things to be flexible, so to have an idea like this to me does not mean that every AmigaOne will be a set top box/games console. I would also like the AmigaOne to be more mobile, and I also like it as a desktop as well. Although being a desktop is kind of old fashion for todays crowd that wants to take their technology with them.

this site is so boring. again and again people show up and come up with variants of ideas and argumentation that has beed disputed to the death all years long. its even hard to bother to respond to it anymore. if it wasnt chris id probably skip it as i usually do.

@wawa

Quote:

id probably skip it as i usually do.

I don´t think so.