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      /  What (Amiga) program to design a garage?
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Deniil715 
What (Amiga) program to design a garage?
Posted on 30-Jan-2016 11:24:17
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 4236
From: Sweden

Hi

I'm going to build a garage; single port, wood frame, insulated with a storage/work room.

Of course I want to make the blueprint on my Amiga and I was wondering what program I should use? Without thinking I would go for PPaint, but maybe Blender or something would be better to be able to rotate the thing in 3D.

Suggestions?

Any professional would of course use some kind of CAD program, but...

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Rob 
Re: What (Amiga) program to design a garage?
Posted on 30-Jan-2016 11:41:18
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales

@Deniil715

Not sure if it works with OS4 but you could try Cycas.

http://aminet.net/package/gfx/3d/Cycas178_EN

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Deniil715 
Re: What (Amiga) program to design a garage?
Posted on 30-Jan-2016 12:58:01
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 4236
From: Sweden

@Rob

Seems to work fine on OS4, but how does it work?! :-p
Have to read a bit I suppose...

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Develin 
Re: What (Amiga) program to design a garage?
Posted on 30-Jan-2016 13:19:08
#4 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2006
Posts: 443
From: Karlstad, Sweden

@Deniil715

Drawstudio ?

Last edited by Develin on 30-Jan-2016 at 01:22 PM.
Last edited by Develin on 30-Jan-2016 at 01:20 PM.

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Overflow 
Re: What (Amiga) program to design a garage?
Posted on 30-Jan-2016 13:23:38
#5 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1628
From: Norway

I guess this is a program that would make good use of Vampire, but I guess it requires FPU...?

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Deniil715 
Re: What (Amiga) program to design a garage?
Posted on 30-Jan-2016 15:42:05
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 4236
From: Sweden

@Overflow

There are versions for both FPU and without. But since I have OS4, that's irrelevant. Petunia has FPU.

@Develin

DrawStudio?

Anyway, this Cycos seems very strange to use. There are no meassurements, no grid (that I can find). Trid to make a "room". It was just a rectangle. When I clicked on Wall, the room disappeared and was never seen again. What is a "room" or "wall" anyway? I mean the point of CAD is to define /how/ it is built, not just draw a rectangle in random space, that can't seem to be moved or change in any intuitive way. Pretty hopeless userinterface, espceially since the html help files are compressed in an unknown format that nothing seems to understand.

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QuikSanz 
Re: What (Amiga) program to design a garage?
Posted on 30-Jan-2016 17:40:04
#7 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2003
Posts: 1236
From: Harbor Gateway, Gardena, Ca.

@Deniil715,

How about Aladdin4D?

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AlicePPC 
Re: What (Amiga) program to design a garage?
Posted on 30-Jan-2016 18:22:40
#8 ]
Member
Joined: 17-Nov-2005
Posts: 81
From: Asturies-Spain

dynacad is for me the best cad for amiga

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Deniil715 
Re: What (Amiga) program to design a garage?
Posted on 30-Jan-2016 18:44:56
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 4236
From: Sweden

@Overflow

There are versions for both FPU and without. But since I have OS4, that's irrelevant. Petunia has FPU.

@Develin

DrawStudio?

Anyway, this Cycos seems very strange to use. There are no meassurements, no grid (that I can find). Trid to make a "room". It was just a rectangle. When I clicked on Wall, the room disappeared and was never seen again. What is a "room" or "wall" anyway? I mean the point of CAD is to define /how/ it is built, not just draw a rectangle in random space, that can't seem to be moved or change in any intuitive way. Pretty hopeless userinterface, espceially since the html help files are compressed in an unknown format that nothing seems to understand.

EDIT: Found the original html help online: Cycos
It was written a long time ago and for some strang reason used the nowrap attribut on all tables making them unreadably wide. Downloaded the whole thing and fixed it, so now the doc is both offline and readable. Let's see if I can take it from there...

Last edited by Deniil715 on 30-Jan-2016 at 06:47 PM.

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Hypex 
Re: What (Amiga) program to design a garage?
Posted on 31-Jan-2016 13:28:00
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Deniil715

MindSpace? Put your mind into the space. Or the space into your mind. Whoa. Something like that.

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mlehto 
Re: What (Amiga) program to design a garage?
Posted on 31-Jan-2016 15:20:08
#11 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Dec-2004
Posts: 1006
From: Unknown

@Deniil715

Cinema4d would be my choice. Object editor is pretty straightforward and mediorce to learn, where lines, polygons, boxes and other primitives is needed.

Object editor is somehow cadlike and you can feed point positions by keyboard every 1/1000 mm or like. There is snap allso, Im not used snap alot though.

Somebody said that blender is good choice, but Im found object editor more like artistic, not engineer :)

Then in C4D you can make material/texture to all different construction materials and render still-pictures.

Works pretty well in os4.



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mlehto 
Re: What (Amiga) program to design a garage?
Posted on 31-Jan-2016 16:42:40
#12 ]
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Joined: 4-Dec-2004
Posts: 1006
From: Unknown

@Deniil715

Drawstudio is vector graphics program. Pretty cabaple even.

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Dandy 
Re: What (Amiga) program to design a garage?
Posted on 1-Feb-2016 13:26:06
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Mar-2003
Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany

@Deniil715

Quote:

Deniil715 wrote:
@Overflow

There are versions for both FPU and without. But since I have OS4, that's irrelevant. Petunia has FPU.

@Develin

DrawStudio?

Anyway, this Cycos seems very strange to use. There are no meassurements, no grid (that I can find). Trid to make a "room". It was just a rectangle. When I clicked on Wall, the room disappeared and was never seen again. What is a "room" or "wall" anyway? I mean the point of CAD is to define /how/ it is built, not just draw a rectangle in random space, that can't seem to be moved or change in any intuitive way. Pretty hopeless userinterface, espceially since the html help files are compressed in an unknown format that nothing seems to understand.



A vist to the Cycas homepage revealed that Cycas 3.9 (Win/Linux) uses Boolean functions to generate 3d.

From my own training as CAD-Analyst I know that in 3D CAD complex structures are frequently generated from so called "Primitives" by applying Boolean logic.

To design a 3D room you would indeed start with a drwing a rectangle (. The next step is to "sweep" this rectangle (think of it as your room's floor) along a defined "sweep path" (in this case a vertical line - but could also be a B-spline) up to the upper height (top of the rooms ceiling).
Now you would have a solid block.

Next steps would be to draw the shapes of e.g. the inner room, the door and the windows.

The "inner" room is done in the same way as the outer room:
For the figures of the "inner" room you have to subtract the thickness of the walls from the metrics you used for the first "solid block" and sweep it to the height of the room (subtract the thickness of the ceiling).

Then you have to do a Boolean subtraction of the inner room from the outer and as a result you will get a box (wall and ceiling of your room).

Now sweep the door- and window shapes (for the sweeping use a value thicker than the walls/ceiling) and subtract them accordingly from the (room-)box with suited Boolean functions.

This is - in simple words - how you would generate a 3D room in most 3D CAD programs I know...

Without a professional CAD training it is next to impossible to find out how a CAD program works.

I for example have a grade as CAD analyst (mechanical engineering) and nevertheless had problems to work with DynaCadd without a proper manual...

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Dandy 
Re: What (Amiga) program to design a garage?
Posted on 1-Feb-2016 13:29:38
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Mar-2003
Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany

@AlicePPC

Quote:

AlicePPC wrote:
dynacad is for me the best cad for amiga



You are so right - but you have to know what you are doing.
Without knowing how to make proper technical drawings you won't get far...

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Dandy 
Re: What (Amiga) program to design a garage?
Posted on 1-Feb-2016 13:40:52
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Mar-2003
Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany

@mlehto

Quote:

mlehto wrote:
@Deniil715

Cinema4d would be my choice. Object editor is pretty straightforward and mediorce to learn, where lines, polygons, boxes and other primitives is needed.
...



The last time I tried I found C4D was lacking a possiblity to design dimensionally accurate. or to import dimensionally accurate 3D models made with DynaCadd.

I also wanted to 'shade' my design. The professional, UNIX-based CAD software we used at School (Medusa, Cadds4x) had inbuilt (rather basic) shaders. I bet C4d would have delivered way better results...

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AlicePPC 
Re: What (Amiga) program to design a garage?
Posted on 1-Feb-2016 14:04:26
#16 ]
Member
Joined: 17-Nov-2005
Posts: 81
From: Asturies-Spain

@Dandy
Yes you are right..all programs can be good if you know what you are doing.
But comparing with stardard Cad in market (Autocad) Dynacadd is a good option in Amiga.
This program is a very good candidate if source coded free for future AmigaOS cad of quality.

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Dandy 
Re: What (Amiga) program to design a garage?
Posted on 1-Feb-2016 14:10:57
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Mar-2003
Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany

@AlicePPC

Quote:

AlicePPC wrote:

...
This program is a very good candidate if source coded free for future AmigaOS cad of quality.



I'm in contact with the owner of the rights of DynaCadd. He would be willing to agree to get it ported to OS4, provided, we can come up with someone who can do the porting......

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Dandy
__________________________________________
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mlehto 
Re: What (Amiga) program to design a garage?
Posted on 1-Feb-2016 15:48:33
#18 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Dec-2004
Posts: 1006
From: Unknown

@Dandy

Quote:
The last time I tried I found C4D was lacking a possiblity to design dimensionally accurate. or to import dimensionally accurate 3D models made with DynaCadd.


What you mean with that ? Decimals are moving itself?

That is true, but I think that it is not major problem, since C4D cant produce cam files anyway. And there is not dimensioning tool either. Still suiteble to produce something, where you can examine, how parts are going together and more or less how things look like.

It is not design tool either though :)

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Dandy 
Re: What (Amiga) program to design a garage?
Posted on 2-Feb-2016 8:52:20
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Mar-2003
Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany

@mlehto

Quote:

mlehto wrote:
@Dandy

Quote:


The last time I tried I found C4D was lacking a possiblity to design dimensionally accurate. or to import dimensionally accurate 3D models made with DynaCadd.



What you mean with that ?



On the one Hand I failed to find a way in C4D to design e.g. a shaft with with a diameter of 45 mm and a tolerance of +0.006 mm and +0.010 mm, like it is possible in DynaCadd.

On the other hand I could not find a way to inport such a dimensionally accurate 3D model designed with DynaCadd into C4D to render it there.

Quote:

mlehto wrote:

Decimals are moving itself?



???


Quote:

mlehto wrote:

That is true, but I think that it is not major problem, since C4D cant produce cam files anyway. And there is not dimensioning tool either.



That's what I meant - no way to design dimensionally accurate in C4D.

Quote:

mlehto wrote:

Still suiteble to produce something, where you can examine, how parts are going together and more or less how things look like.



I can agree to the "and more or less how things look like" part.

But if you want to "examine, how parts are going together" in mechanical engineering, you often have to deal with fittings having a tolerance of just four thousanth of a millimeter.

To analyse if and how things with such a tiny tolerance "are going together" you are dependent of dimensionally accurate 3D models - either you can do such models directly in C4D, or you need a way to Import such 3D models from a capable CAD program such as DynaCadd.

Quote:

mlehto wrote:

It is not design tool either though :)



Of course not.
C4D is a devilish good Rendering Software.

Modern and professional CAD Tools have inbuilt shaders and functionality for collision Analysis.. That's why I think a combination of DynaCadd and a good rendering software like C4d would be awsome...

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Dandy
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Deniil715 
Re: What (Amiga) program to design a garage?
Posted on 2-Feb-2016 14:27:22
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 4236
From: Sweden

@Dandy

Sounds like I would get this job done faster in PPaint than any CAD program...
I've used DPaint/PPaint for electronic design, both circuit design and board layout (double-sided) with high precision.

What I was hoping for with this CAD experience was an easy way of drawing objects (beams, walls, rails, doors, etc. with perfect meassurements aligned to a grid of any scale.

So far (in Cycos) I found no way of forcing a grid to work on. There is Snap, but it only allows up to 9 "points" and is only active when 'holding' a line or moving an object, but when placing the starting point.

In my perfect world:
1. Create work space of a specific size with a given measurement base: mm for example. I could do this somewhat but the scale and aspect settings made it pretty confusing...
2. Activate a (possibly visual) grid at say 10mm, or 100mm to place beams and stuff perfectly aligned. Not possible. Maximum snap is 9 and no grid like in PPaint.
3. Easily place different things with different color onto this space. Is difficult because no grid and snap is not active when placing first point. No colors it seems.
4. Easily copy and move a selection of objects. This was at least possible, but not very easy. Guess the program is simply old and unintuitive... This is the major weak spot of any paint program.

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