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ASiegel 
Re: Germany behind this?
Posted on 25-Jun-2016 8:40:11
#21 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Oct-2013
Posts: 212
From: Unknown

@m0lebrain

Quote:
This was Merkel's grand plan all along...

She is not known for having grand plans and has a reputation for (slowly) "going with the flow" so-to-speak. Put differently, she is seen as having more of a reactive policy style (for better or for worse).

Last edited by ASiegel on 25-Jun-2016 at 08:40 AM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Germany behind this?
Posted on 25-Jun-2016 12:32:33
#22 ]
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Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@ASiegel

the reactive Merkel was the old one, now she is mainly stubborn and not reacting on critics because she has "THE" plan, the only valid one and everyone else is wrong.

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thinkchip 
Re: Germany behind this?
Posted on 25-Jun-2016 13:38:42
#23 ]
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Joined: 26-Mar-2004
Posts: 1183
From: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA

@m0lebrain

I think the amount of responsibility the US has for the problems in Mid East are minimal. After thousands of years of fighting the area had reached a precarious state of equilibrium maintained by brutal rulers. The area was like a pressure-cooker with a tight lid waiting to explode. Little did the US know that it would be better to allow them to continue to try to kill each other like they have done for thousands of years, than try to improve their lives. The US simply loosened the lid a little. If the amount of money the US put into Iraq were divided among the citizens, each person would be wealthy. By now it would all be in the treasure houses of one or more brutal ruler. I think every US citizen should get out of the MidEast and let them continue with what they have been doing for thousands of years.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Germany behind this?
Posted on 25-Jun-2016 13:50:50
#24 ]
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Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12796
From: Norway

@thinkchip

Gray stones have no value; money has no value if everyone has money.

Money is the matador for the exchange of services. If there is no exchange of services, there is no point to money.

For large populations to work there has to be a work place, and please to live.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 25-Jun-2016 at 01:53 PM.

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thinkchip 
Re: Germany behind this?
Posted on 25-Jun-2016 14:04:31
#25 ]
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Joined: 26-Mar-2004
Posts: 1183
From: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA

@NutsAboutAmiga

The US tried to build power stations and power lines. The people took them apart so they could sell the copper. They tried building roads. They were destroyed by IED's. Everything the US has tried to build in Iraq was destroyed, mostly by the public it was supposed to benefit. The US should have learned from what happened to the Russians and everyone before them.

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OlafS25 
Re: Germany behind this?
Posted on 25-Jun-2016 14:05:04
#26 ]
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Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@thinkchip

I do not agree to that, they have a fair share of responsibility there... I only say Iraque and Libya

IS like it is today would not exist without US

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OlafS25 
Re: Germany behind this?
Posted on 25-Jun-2016 14:06:31
#27 ]
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Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@thinkchip

russia in iraq? you seem to mix it with afghanistan

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Germany behind this?
Posted on 25-Jun-2016 14:17:04
#28 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12796
From: Norway

@thinkchip

Then we are back to the different economic models.

Capitalism, if you have money you get more money, if you have no money you starve and die.

Communism, as it was intended, every one share everything, no rich, no poor, no point in working, no point keeping things in order, as your Nabors will probably break it anyway.

Role of the Church
Tax the people, and build temples, promise the havens if people give money to church, poor stay poor, and the priest get rich. Burn scientist and heretics (people of other religions).

Role of the King
Tax the people, and build castles (to keep the presents out), poor stay poor, and the king get rich.

Role of the Mulla
Tax the people, kill anyone that says no (none believers, wrong religion, people don't dress right), poor stay poor, and the mulla's get rich.

Socialism.
Monay is tax'ed and redistributed to the poor, no one get too rich, no one gets too poor, everyone feel they own something. Maybe not best please to start business.

Left wing politics = liberalism, ignore borders, and try save everyone with result of going bankrupt.
Right wing politics = Lets go too war. (Who can we blame.)

Imperialism = The EU and USA, the rich get rich the poor stay poor.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 25-Jun-2016 at 03:26 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 25-Jun-2016 at 02:22 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 25-Jun-2016 at 02:22 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 25-Jun-2016 at 02:20 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 25-Jun-2016 at 02:18 PM.

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thinkchip 
Re: Germany behind this?
Posted on 25-Jun-2016 14:21:58
#29 ]
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Joined: 26-Mar-2004
Posts: 1183
From: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA

@OlafS25

Right. They would be a pressure cooker with a nice tight lid. Like they were for a thousand years. US doesn't like lids. I'm not one of those misguided American apologists.

Last edited by thinkchip on 25-Jun-2016 at 02:33 PM.

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ASiegel 
Re: Germany behind this?
Posted on 25-Jun-2016 14:28:06
#30 ]
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Joined: 22-Oct-2013
Posts: 212
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:
the reactive Merkel was the old one, now she is mainly stubborn and not reacting on critics because she has "THE" plan, the only valid one and everyone else is wrong.

I think you are paying too much attention on political posturing and not enough on what is visibly happening in the background.

Merkel has never apologized for any wrong-doing or strongly acknowledged changing her opinions (like pulling a 180 on nuclear power just to name one example) but always quietly adapted policies if necessary. Shortly after the banking crisis, the Merkel government was (and still is) officially propagating austerity all over the press while they spent many, many billions on car as well as "short-term" wage and other subsidies, which are classic Keynesian / "evil leftist" stimulus policies.

The same playbook is still being followed today. While the government still praises itself for making the generous decision to take on many refugees, Germany is the major driving force behind the potential refugee deal with Turkey, which is designed to extremely limit the influx of further refugees...

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OlafS25 
Re: Germany behind this?
Posted on 25-Jun-2016 14:45:53
#31 ]
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Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@ASiegel

there are different views if the deal really was the major driving force or the closure of balcan route by austria and other countries. I say without the closure the deal would be worthless because the refugees would ignore it and simply go and the greeks would not stop them because that is the easiest solution for them.

She has with their action raised most of the problems, she had the duty to stop and not only say empty phrases. I am very angry on her and the consequences will be feelable in germany for many years now.

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ASiegel 
Re: Germany behind this?
Posted on 25-Jun-2016 15:13:13
#32 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Oct-2013
Posts: 212
From: Unknown

@OlafS25
Quote:
I say without the closure the deal would be worthless because the refugees would ignore it and simply go and the greeks would not stop them because that is the easiest solution for them.

I am afraid we are not even remotely talking about the same thing.

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Xenic 
Re: Germany behind this?
Posted on 25-Jun-2016 15:23:17
#33 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Feb-2004
Posts: 1246
From: Pennsylvania, USA

@m0lebrain
There's no conspiracy. Apparently, 17 million Brits ordered guns from the U.S. and just shot themselves in the foot. Once Scotland votes for independence and rejoins the EU, the Brits will need to hire Donald Trump to build a wall on the Scottish border to keep the immigrants out.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Germany behind this?
Posted on 25-Jun-2016 15:24:54
#34 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12796
From: Norway

@Xenic

Quote:
Once Scotland votes for independence and rejoins the EU, the Brits will need to hire Donald Trump to build a wall on the Scottish border to keep the immigrants out.


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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Germany behind this?
Posted on 25-Jun-2016 15:35:22
#35 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12796
From: Norway

@thinkchip

Quote:
The people took them apart so they could sell the copper.


The desperately poor cut of their own body parts to sell to get some money.

http://andthenwesaved.com/selling-body-parts-for-cash/
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-24128096

Maybe electricity was not what they needed the most.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 25-Jun-2016 at 03:36 PM.

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iggy 
Re: Germany behind this?
Posted on 25-Jun-2016 15:36:07
#36 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@thinkchip

Sure you are.
Islam itself is a reaction to Christian millitant activity in the Middle East.
We are largely responsible for this.

BTW - Being from Utah, you wouldn't happen to be a Mormon, would you?

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pavlor 
Re: Germany behind this?
Posted on 25-Jun-2016 16:52:42
#37 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9578
From: Unknown

@thinkchip

Quote:
I think the amount of responsibility the US has for the problems in Mid East are minimal.


What about US 2003 invasion of Iraq?

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iggy 
Re: Germany behind this?
Posted on 25-Jun-2016 17:49:28
#38 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@pavlor

And our support of Afgani insurgents during the war with Russia that helped fund Osama Bin Laden.

Our assistance training the Egyption Military in tactics like rendition.

Our former support of the Shah of Iran.

Our relationship with the ruling Royal family of Saudi Arabia.

Our historic role in Libya.

Our continuing misguide steps with Syria.

And...there are SO many other things that I could mention.

Minimal? Seriously? It boggles my mind that this guy is that uninformed about history.

The ongoing problems in the Middle East intimately involve England, the US and all countries related to the Empire going back to before the Crusades.

That statement has to be one of the dumbest things I have ever read on the internet, and in that it is quite an accomplishment.

Last edited by iggy on 25-Jun-2016 at 07:54 PM.
Last edited by iggy on 25-Jun-2016 at 05:50 PM.

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TiredofLife 
Re: Germany behind this?
Posted on 25-Jun-2016 18:24:31
#39 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Jul-2005
Posts: 1702
From: Here

@Xenic

Quote:

Xenic wrote:
@m0lebrain
There's no conspiracy. Apparently, 17 million Brits ordered guns from the U.S. and just shot themselves in the foot. Once Scotland votes for independence and rejoins the EU, the Brits will need to hire Donald Trump to build a wall on the Scottish border to keep the immigrants out.



That just shows your ignorance.
We already have the wall in place, it just needs raising.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadrian%27s_Wall



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pavlor 
Re: Germany behind this?
Posted on 25-Jun-2016 19:36:07
#40 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9578
From: Unknown

@iggy

Quote:
The ongoing problems in the Middle East intimately involve England, the US and all countries related to the Empire going back to before the Crusades.


Too far reaching statement. Don´t let all the blame fall on the West, local people also have their fair share. You can hardly built modern society on bigotry, superstition and violence.

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