@Raffaele
Quote:

t is good to see patch works and you integrated it in your release.

Have you even read his answer?

_________________
This is just like television, only you can see much further.

@Raffaele

Quote:

I see too much babbling and too few action in this community.

Thank god you are here to save this community from publicly researching, planning and evaluating projects before money is being collected or a developer is assigned.

@Raffaele

Quote:

t is good to see patch works and you integrated it in your release.

Wut?
Where did you read that in his comment?

@Raffaele

Why don't/can't you test the patch yourself?

_________________
Amiga A1200, 3.1 ROMs, Blizzard 1230 MKIV 64MB & FPU, 4GB DoM SSD, Workbench 3.1

@BSzili

Quote:

- Changes need to be integrated to https://github.com/deadwood-pl/OdysseyWebBrowser - and released with license compatible with Odyssey - A binary of Odyssey for a selected Big Endian system is delivered to general usage

These two lines not mean Deadwoord is evaluating Tobias Netzel patch and necessary changes are studied to integrate patch in a future binary?

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@Raffaele Quote:

it is strange that nor in Amigaland neither in Morphos camp, two valud developers were unable to made use of Tobias Netzel patch embedding ut in their code... At this point I suspect there is something not good into it.

Then you have NO idea how much work/effort it takes to do coding of a big complex program like Odyssey, even for just a "simple" thing of integrating someone else's code.

Nor do you have any idea (I don't either) of how much/little free time Deadwood or Fab have, although the evidence seems to indicate not much at the moment, plus some have indicated Fab is actually very busy with Real Life at the moment.


If this is your normal attitude, then I agree with ASiegel & TRIPOS that you will have a hard time finding many more Amiga programmers to be involved with any future bounties you do.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@A1200

Quote:

A1200 wrote: @Raffaele Why don't/can't you test the patch yourself?

At this point I could had said test Tobia Patch you first...

It seems quite logic that the actual developers of OWB (AmigaOS and MOS) are the best people entitled to test the patch in a controlled programming environment where they know all the source code they wrote with their own hands.

What do you think?

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@Raffaele Quote:

These two lines not mean Deadwoord is evaluating Tobias Netzel patch and necessary changes are studied to integrate patch in a future binary?

No. Because he was quoting YOUR bounty, and you missed-out a crucial earlier line he wrote:
Quote:

Here are the validation criteria taken from your bounty:

He made NO indication that he had done anything with/for your validation criteria. He was simply repeating it, before pointing out that your validation criteria effectively require Tobias to integrate his code into (Deadwood's) Odyssey code himself (without any help).

He also pointed out that if Tobias is unable to do that (due to lack of Amiga knowledge), then he should have made an arrangement with Deadwood or Fab or someone else to do the integration. And to do that BEFORE taking the bounty.

But he also said that, in the end, you manage the bounty, so it is up to you whether you enforce your validation criteria or not.

P.S. If all this sounds overly negative, I should thank you for at least trying to get JavaScript endian issues fixed. However, it seems you made some mistakes which you need to learn from, if you do any future bounties.

Last edited by ChrisH on 13-Aug-2016 at 11:05 AM.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@ChrisH

Quote:

ChrisH wrote: @Raffaele Quote: it is strange that nor in Amigaland neither in Morphos camp, two valud developers were unable to made use of Tobias Netzel patch embedding ut in their code... At this point I suspect there is something not good into it. Then you have NO idea how much work/effort it takes to do coding of a big complex program like Odyssey, even for just a "simple" thing of integrating someone else's code. Nor do you have any idea (I don't either) of how much/little free time Deadwood or Fab have, although the evidence seems to indicate not much at the moment, plus some have indicated Fab is actually very busy with Real Life at the moment. If this is your normal attitude, then I agree with ASiegel & TRIPOS that you will have a hard time finding many more Amiga programmers to be involved with any future bounties you do.

I beg your pardon. i had a bad attitude as I were accustomed to continue quick releases of OWB from FAB with MorphOS version and it seems to me he integrated another Tobias patch in the past, so I was quite sure he was capable to integrate this patch within three months including committment in real life.

No idea of Deadwood speed or if he have issues in real world, sorry, but he seemed in the past a quick releaser too..

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@Raffaele

How more entitled can you get? Neither deadwood nor Fab made any commitment to you or this bounty. Deadwood even said explicitly that he is not interested. You call yourself a serious man, yet you interpret your own bounty conditions quoted back at you as him doing the work the taker of the bounty is supposed to do? This is why people don't take you seriously, because you pester Fab and deadwood, who have given a lot to the community already, with something they never agreed to do in the first place.

Last edited by BSzili on 13-Aug-2016 at 11:20 AM.
Last edited by BSzili on 13-Aug-2016 at 11:19 AM.

_________________
This is just like television, only you can see much further.

@BSzili

This seems to be a case of language barrier

@Raziel

I'm not a native speaker, but take a good look at what happened here. Not recognizing his own bounty description, which was clearly quoted, and interpreting it as deadwood agreeing to do the work to integrate the patch to Odyssey goes beyond that.

_________________
This is just like television, only you can see much further.

Language barriers and poorly written criteria aside, a fix is much needed regardless. So if this would fix the problem it should be of interest for our OS developers.

_________________
Amiga Forum - Sweden's best Amiga Magazine

My MorphOS Blog

"Free speech includes other peoples right to offend you."

@Raffaele Quote:

I beg your pardon. i had a bad attitude as I were accustomed to continue quick releases of OWB from FAB with MorphOS version and it seems to me he integrated another Tobias patch in the past, so I was quite sure he was capable to integrate this patch within three months including committment in real life.

But the thing is that Real Life committments change. People move houses (a small nightmare of paperwork & logistics for maybe 6 months), change jobs or try to start their own business, have children (goodbye spare time), find a new hobby/interest, or many more things.

So just because Fab was able to find the time & motivation in the past to make frequent releases of Odyssey, that says very little about what might happen in the future.

If you look at (freeware) Amiga programmers in general, most of our "important" programmers have periods when they are highly productive (frequently releasing new stuff), and then periods when they are mostly silent. The length of such periods vary greatly, and occasionally they stay silent permanently...


I think the main lesson you should learn from all this, is to have more preparation & planning, before rushing ahead to create a bounty. And as part of that, make sure you have agreements from all the parties who might be needed by the bounty. (And if you cannot get such agreements, then plan for them never meeting your wishes.) Basically, do not assume anything, particularly when it involves people's time & interest.

Last edited by ChrisH on 13-Aug-2016 at 12:20 PM.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@Yasu

judging ba the post by internetzel from 1 march here;
https://github.com/deadwood-pl/OdysseyWebBrowser/issues/1
the patch in question appears to be simply written for macos webkit engine. i doubt that applying the attached diff to a demanded revision of the core will produce the desirable result, as the autor himself writes.

i think its something he did for himself and proposed as a funding base for the actual solution by someone else. it doesnt even sound as if he is claiming the bounty, he mentions fabienne, as someone who could make use of it.

@Raffaele

As others have mentioned Deadwood never promised to integrate the sources in OWB himself and in his own bounty description it is obvious that integrating sources is part of the bounty otherwise you expect Deadwood or Fab to do lots of work for free just to veryify your bounty.

BTW I still do not understand the goals of your bounty. A completed JIT Bounty would mean users can download OWB (for PPC) and JIT works, this developer obviously could not test it because it is not integrated anywhere, how did he verify that his work is completed?

You cited Deadwoods bounty description:
Changes need to be integrated to https://github.com/deadwood-pl/OdysseyWebBrowser and released with license compatible with Odyssey
A binary of Odyssey for a selected Big Endian system is delivered to general usage

Did you use that? If yes bounty clearly was and is not completed

And regarding "speed" of Deadwood. Your comment sounds to me a little boldfaced. Neither you nor anyone else can expect of someone else to do work in his spare time, that is expecially true with no money involved and in case of Deadwood no interest in the project because for Deadwood JIT is working very good already. You can ask very very politely if they could help but that would have be needed before bounty starts and not after being completed, or at least somehow completed.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 13-Aug-2016 at 01:06 PM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 13-Aug-2016 at 12:57 PM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 13-Aug-2016 at 12:57 PM.

@wawa

for me it is not clear what the goal of the bounty and the bounty text really is. He cites Deadwoods bounty description but then the bounty clearly is not completed as long as there is no working OWB binary but it seems he and the other guy think that is not needed for the bounty and someone else has to integrate the sources. A little strange...

@OlafS25

read my link above. its not deadwoods bounty nor his description, even though its on a github maintained by him. he involved kas1e in the maintenance for os4 and kas1e involved raffaele who put up the bounty.

what concerns testing:

Quote:

Built with the attached patch (with full optimization on gcc 5.3) on a 32 bit big endian PowerPC machine the JavaScriptCore C-Loop Interpreter passes all tests that I suppose it should pass.

internetzel seems to have tested his patch with an unspecified 32bit big ppc machine, likely an apple mac. so it schould be functional, on mac os, according to him. thats all we know so far.

@wawa



his bounty:

https://www.bountysource.com/issues/30646188-odyssey-web-browser-solve-ppc-webkit-javascript-engine-endianess-problems-inherited-from-webkit-x86

Validation:

The non-JIT JavaScript engine for a selected Big Endian system (AmigaOS 3.x, AROS 68k, MorphOS or AmigaOS 4) works up to same level as non-JIT JavaScript version for x86 processors.
Execution speed is not part of comparison
The changes are made in a way allowing easy re-basing with newer versions of WebKit
Changes need to be integrated to https://github.com/deadwood-pl/OdysseyWebBrowser and released with license compatible with Odyssey
A binary of Odyssey for a selected Big Endian system is delivered to general usage

If I think about it it seems it is no longer part of the task (in opposite to Deadwoods proposal), as if there is no work involved

@OlafS25

the patch is not for jit, is a css,js fix for endianess in webkit did by Tobias N. the one who made leopard webkit on osx... is just a fix. i think kas1e can integrate it without problems.

@raffaele
did you send the patch code to kas1e?

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
#nomorea-eoninmyhome