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Gregor 
X5000: technical details
Posted on 11-Oct-2016 15:07:55
#1 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Sep-2011
Posts: 212
From: Unknown

As X5000 is now officially released, testers etc. should now be free to give detailed information about it, is that correct?-) I have a already a few questions...

1) What is the EXACT Dimm memory type needed for it, to work with full speed? Is it 'selective' or do the combs from all manufacturers work? Can you give the correct part numbers e.g. for 2 GB and 4GB Kingston ones?

2) How does X5000 actually boot, in details...? Can someone give a step-by-step description of all the early boot phases?

3) From what media can it soft/hardwareboot, and what (special) files should be present and where, and what filesystems are now accepted for bootmedia?

4) Can it hardware boot also from a SCSI-disk?!? (X1000 could only softboot, probably due to cfe, but as X5000 has Uboot this should be possible, unless someone has intentionally disabled it...)

5) There are 2 'original' PCI bus slots on the motherboard. What voltage is used in them?

Many of these questions has been sent earlier directly to A-Eon, but as they never replied I try to get some answers here!-)

Regards,

Gregor

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TheKorn 
Re: X5000: technical details
Posted on 11-Oct-2016 17:28:12
#2 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Oct-2008
Posts: 171
From: Texas

@betatesters

Some Amiga OS4.x related benchmarks would be nice too. ; )



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PhantomInterrogative 
Re: X5000: technical details
Posted on 11-Oct-2016 17:33:10
#3 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Sep-2004
Posts: 809
From: The Interrogative Lair

@Gregor

Just to add to your booting question, how does the Early Startup Menu boot to Classic Amiga OS and Linux? What type of emulation does the Classic boot use? What flavor of Linux is installed by default?

On another note, will the USB headers on the motherboard work with the Kryoflux?

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: X5000: technical details
Posted on 11-Oct-2016 18:08:21
#4 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12795
From: Norway

@Gregor

2)

It uses UBOOT so this should apply.

http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/2015/01/amigaos4.html

AmigaONE hardware has special version of UBOOT, that has a extra command just for AmigaOS, called boota, boota is responsible for picking the HD or CDROM to boot from, the Amiga Multiboot option in UBOOT menu.

When you picked the correct hd or CDROM, it loads in a small program called SLB2 from the media, this program is responsible for loading in the kickstart.

The SLB2 loads in a file kickstart layout, this file consist of different modules the kicksstart should use, once loaded, the kickstyart layout also provided boot options, It is similar to how NTLDR works, it allows you to pick debug mode or normal boot. But if you modify the kickstart layout you can, tell it to have more then one version of that kickstart. At this point you don't have option to choose if you won't to boot from CDROM or HD. When the kickstart is loaded, it responsibility of booting AmigaOS fall over to kickstart.

3)

SFS2 or FFS Filesystem, the SLB2 bootloader loads in the kickstart modules, the SLB2 that the CD Boots from is different then the SLB2 that is installed into RDB of partition, after you have booted and installed from install CD.

The Kickstart modules are located from SYS: partition, or first bookable partition on HD or CDROM with the highest boot priority.

4) SCSI is out this days, its SAS drives that are used in servers this days.
and no I don't think so, as it's really controlled by SLB2 boot loader.

UBOOT can however pick the media to load the SLB2 from,.

5)

The really old PCI slots on 486 was 5VDC, then newer PCI standard was 3.3V, so in other words its 3.3 V DC, nothing else makes sense.

Most PCI cards modern PCI cards are combo cards, se Wikipedia to identify the card.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/PCI#/media/File:PCI_Keying.svg

PCIe cards looks like PCI cards, but work in fundamentally different way.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 11-Oct-2016 at 06:47 PM.
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Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 11-Oct-2016 at 06:09 PM.

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Canfod 
Re: X5000: technical details
Posted on 11-Oct-2016 18:21:46
#5 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2005
Posts: 138
From: The WET coast of Canada

@Gregor

Quote:

Gregor wrote:

1) What is the EXACT Dimm memory type needed for it, to work with full speed? Is it 'selective' or do the combs from all manufacturers work?

Gregor


Uhm.... was that a typo, and supposed to be "combos", or something else.....

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Rob 
Re: X5000: technical details
Posted on 11-Oct-2016 18:51:57
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:

5)

The really old PCI slots on 486 was 5VDC, then newer PCI standard was 3.3V, so in other words its 3.3 V DC, nothing else makes sense.

Most PCI cards modern PCI cards are combo cards, se Wikipedia to identify the card.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/PCI#/media/File:PCI_Keying.svg

PCIe cards looks like PCI cards, but work in fundamentally different way.


They're 5 volt. Your own link shows that if your compare it to the X5000's PCI slots. You only need to worry about the keying, it's not like the A1 video it's non-keyed killer AGP slot. If it fits, it's the correct voltage.

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Gregor 
Re: X5000: technical details
Posted on 11-Oct-2016 19:32:23
#7 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Sep-2011
Posts: 212
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Thanks for your answer! You gave a lot of interesting info about the boot process.

Quote:
...
4) SCSI is out this days, its SAS drives that are used in servers this days.
and no I don't think so, as it's really controlled by SLB2 boot loader.


Think...? So you do not know surely, or have not tested it with a SCSI card...?

SCSI may be 'old-fashioned', but it is reliabe and still useful! And there is even a manufacturer (Dawicontrol) who still produces a SCSI controller (DC-2976 UW) which is compatible with the driver of AmigaOS 4.1. This PCI card is 5V only.

Quote:
5)

The really old PCI slots on 486 was 5VDC, then newer PCI standard was 3.3V, so in other words its 3.3 V DC, nothing else makes sense.

Most PCI cards modern PCI cards are combo cards, se Wikipedia to identify the card.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/PCI#/media/File:PCI_Keying.svg


Are you absolutely sure...? I just compared that link above to a high res picture of Cyrus v.2.2 board and the PCI slots look in my eyes 5V ones...!

Regards,

Gregor

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tangoone 
Re: X5000: technical details
Posted on 11-Oct-2016 21:31:48
#8 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 2-Jul-2014
Posts: 152
From: Norway

@Gregor

anyone know the diffrence between A1222 and x5000 ?

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Rob 
Re: X5000: technical details
Posted on 11-Oct-2016 22:25:30
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales

@tangoone

A1222

X5000

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Beans 
Re: X5000: technical details
Posted on 11-Oct-2016 23:24:38
#10 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA

@tangoone

Quote:
anyone know the diffrence between A1222 and x5000 ?


Yeah, that is a pretty big difference.
You can check out the full spec, but just for starters the A1222 is based on a 32bit G3 level cpu with a non-standard floating point unit that operates at about half the speed of the 64bit cpu in the X5000.

However...outside of the fpu issue, the speed of the A1222 still makes it at least as powerful as the SAM460, at a much lower price point.

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tonyw 
Re: X5000: technical details
Posted on 12-Oct-2016 5:26:03
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3240
From: Sydney (of course)

@Gregor

I must take issue with Nuts' description of the boot process:

The SLB ("Second Level Booter") that was used in the A1-SE/XE and Sams is not used in the X-1000/X-5000/A-1222 and later boards. We now uae a program called "amigaboot". On the X-1000, you had to have a boot partition containing this "amigaboot.of" program.

In the X-5000 and later boards using U-Boot, we call it "amigaboot.ub". Only the interface to the CFE or U-Boot is different, they are otherwise the same. Currently "amigaboot.ub" supports the X-5000 and A-1222. If we ever get another mobo using CFE, it will use an updated version of "amigaboot.of", which is used only on the X-1000.

Amigaboot will boot from FFS, SFS\0, SFS\2 and NGF\0 system partitions, using the "boota" command. Like the old SLB, it produces a list of bootable partitions from which you can choose, then loads Kickstart modules from there.

In the X-5000, U-Boot and amigaboot.ub are stored on the SD-Card on the mobo. The contents can be updated via U-Boot or AmigaOS when necessary.

U-Boot can of course boot from almost any device - USB sticks, CDs, DVDs, serial, Ethernet, etc. It prefers to use Linux-like formats. The only Amiga file system that U-Boot (and CFE) can understand is FFS, which is why you have to have an FFS-formatted partition on the X-1000, containing amigaboot.of. On the X-5000 and A-1222, the amigaboot.ub is immediately available from the SD-Card, so does not have to be loaded from a disk partition.

Last edited by tonyw on 12-Oct-2016 at 09:54 PM.

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Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

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Gregor 
Re: X5000: technical details
Posted on 12-Oct-2016 6:41:38
#12 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Sep-2011
Posts: 212
From: Unknown

@tonyw
Thanks, Tony!! it is always a pleasure to get an answer from a person who really knows what he is talking about...

Gregor

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duga 
Re: X5000: technical details
Posted on 12-Oct-2016 6:41:58
#13 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 1-May-2012
Posts: 227
From: Unknown

@tangoone

X5000: can be bought.
A1222: can't be bought.

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Amigo1 
Re: X5000: technical details
Posted on 12-Oct-2016 6:51:09
#14 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Jun-2004
Posts: 1582
From: the Clouds

@tonyw

Quote:

tonyw wrote:
@Gregor

... and NGF\0 system partitions, ...



What's NGF?

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Amigo1 
Re: X5000: technical details
Posted on 12-Oct-2016 6:52:43
#15 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Jun-2004
Posts: 1582
From: the Clouds

Are there any news regarding the release of X5000/040?

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Gregor 
Re: X5000: technical details
Posted on 12-Oct-2016 9:27:53
#16 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Sep-2011
Posts: 212
From: Unknown

@tonyw
Quote:
In the X-5000, U-Boot and amigaboot.ub are stored on the SD-Card on the mobo. The contents can be updated via U-Boot or AmigaOS when necessary.

U-Boot can of course boot from almost any device - USB sticks, CDs, DVDs, serial, Ethernet, etc. It prefers to use Linux-like formats. The only Amiga file system that U-Boot can understand is FFS, which is why you have to have an FFS-formatted partition on the X-1000, containing amigaboot.of. On the X-1000 and A-1222, the amigaboot.ub is immediately available from the SD-Card, so does not have to be loaded from a disk partition.


A couple of further questions occurred to me... In what format that SD-card has to be? In FFS or some Linux-like format? Is it possible to have also Kickstart, or even the whole AmigaOS on it? (as an emergency boot source)

Regards,

Gregor

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tonyw 
Re: X5000: technical details
Posted on 12-Oct-2016 11:19:56
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3240
From: Sydney (of course)

@Gregor

The SD-Card holds the U-Boot image, amigaboot image, the saved environment variables and the startup animation, all as separate modules at their own addresses within the card. There is no "file system" as such, just a whole lot of stuff, each component at its own sddress.

We can update the SD-card by putting it in a card reader on another machine and doing a "dd" or raw write from the binary image to the card. We can also do updates directly to the card on the X-5000 if you have AmigaOS4 running.

Kickstart as well? We've talked about it, and it is possible, but there are more urgent things to get right first.

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Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

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MichaelMerkel 
Re: X5000: technical details
Posted on 12-Oct-2016 12:48:46
#18 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 819
From: Ilvesheim, Germany

@tonyw

just two typos in your very good description which you may correct as the is quite a good source of information!

Quote:

tonyw wrote:
U-Boot can of course boot from almost any device - USB sticks, CDs, DVDs, serial, Ethernet, etc. It prefers to use Linux-like formats. The only Amiga file system that CFE can understand is FFS, which is why you have to have an FFS-formatted partition on the X-1000, containing amigaboot.of. On the X-5000 and A-1222, the amigaboot.ub is immediately available from the SD-Card, so does not have to be loaded from a disk partition.


regards...
michael

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MichaelMerkel 
Re: X5000: technical details
Posted on 12-Oct-2016 12:49:40
#19 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 819
From: Ilvesheim, Germany

@Amigo1

Quote:

Amigo1 wrote:
@tonyw

Quote:

tonyw wrote:
@Gregor

... and NGF\0 system partitions, ...



What's NGF?


the new Next Generation Filesystem.

regards...
michael

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Member of Amiga-Freunde Pfalz, OS4 Welt

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tlosm 
Re: X5000: technical details
Posted on 12-Oct-2016 13:11:18
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2746
From: Amiga land

@Amigo1

Quote:
Are there any news regarding the release of X5000/040?


for my point of view i think will be really faar from release.
guys enjoy first 5020 because really powerful amigaos machine

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