@Chain-Q

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Hopefully, probably not. No one should write kernels in assembly in 2016.

Not as odious as it sounds, its a small, tight little module that would benefit from that approach.
C generated code would inevitably be larger and less efficient.

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Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"

@Beans

I hope one partner, with the eye on smaller systems that can run IBM's business applications will make a smaller version, anyway we will see.
The problem with x86 and what makes that ISA unacceptable, both on Intel and AMD's part is their microcode that runs on their CPU's, which has proven to contain backdoors.
In the age of big data, I yearn for computers to do as I tell them to, not the other way around.

The good thing about AROS is that it is very portable.
AROS is for 68k, ppc, arm, x86.
That is why maybe more focus should go into AROS for the future. There is no way to sell the OS like OS4 or MorphOS, but I'm sure with more users there is a market to sell software, hardware and other stuff that could make a good buisness if done right.
I rem.. Hyperion ported some games and apps. to Amiga. I'm pretty sure that brough inn good money for them. Sure days are way different now. It is getting harder and harder to reach new users.
We for sure could need some big investors.

I tried Linux a lot and hate it more and more. I reached the point where I'm not going back there. I know it is very usefull in the server market and for a lot of things but as a desktop it sucks big time. I don't see why AROS could not be way more attractive as an open source alternative to Win. and MacOS.

Last edited by nikosidis on 20-Dec-2016 at 12:15 PM.

@nikosidis

Well, I think the problem with AROS atm is that the ports aren't really equal. the x86 port is well ahead of the others and the PPC port is far behind, which really makes it unusable for the powerpc laptop project for example.
I think it would help if there was one API that could cover development for AROS, MorphOS and AmigaOS but this splintered development is hampering the platform. In Linux, it's usually just a manner of adding another repo or chrooting and voila, interLinux compatibility.

@WolfpackN64

I'm sure not lot of focus went into AROS ppc platform recent years. That is first of all cause the lack of interest. When it comes to running AROS native on the arm platform (first of all the Raspberry Pi) It is more a driver related problem. The point here is that AROS runs on theese platforms. It is not a big effort to make them up to date with the x86 platform but where are the developers to do it ?
For the future whatever happends regarding arcitecture at least AROS is very portable platform.
What is of more a concern might be the lack of support for mulitithreading.
I know it could be done in some way in Amiga or Amigalike OS, but we have seen nothing yet.

@Beans

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I think we ought to call it "Pancakes" myself

Pancakes 3.1 -- I like it!

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"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

@Beans

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C generated code would inevitably be larger and less efficient.

Maybe, but it's getting hard to write better code that an optimizing compiler, especially on multi-core processors.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

@nikosidis

Quote:

I tried Linux a lot and hate it more and more. I reached the point where I'm not going back there. I know it is very usefull in the server market and for a lot of things but as a desktop it sucks big time.

What didn't you like about it? I'm in the middle (at least I hope it's the middle) of creating my own Linux desktop system and I like feedback from people on what they like and don't like about current Linux desktops systems.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

@WolfpackN64

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their microcode that runs on their CPU's, which has proven to contain backdoors. In the age of big data, I yearn for computers to do as I tell them to, not the other way around.

Frankly, what scares me most about my X64 system isn't the potential of backdoors, but Cortana and Windows10's collection of my personal data right out the front door.
And thanks to the latest updates, its damned hard to disable.

We need another lawsuit to remedy this situation.

_________________
Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"

@bison

I think it is very unfriendly. First of all I think it is hard to configure the OS. Lots of protection "sudo this and sudo that" passwords. It is hard for me to understand the OS structure. Does not look or feel attractive. File handeling is a pain. It can even be a pain to find programs that I installed.

If you are doing some distro remove all this protection stuff and get DOpus for it ;) Maybe I will try it.

@Beans

Agreed, Windows 10 is terrible. I'm currently transitioning to Linux as my main OS.

@WolfpackN64

Well, paying for an OS that essentially spies on you is in my mind the worst part.
Then there is the lack of Aero themes in Windows after Win7, the corruption of the start menu, the lack of a simple search function (forget Cortana, I prefer to do my thinking myself rather than have an artificial intellegence agent looking over my shoulders at all times).
But Linux...I don't really like that either.
Pity I can't get more done with NG OS', but that is slowly improving.

Anyone here seen a list on how to slipstream all the Win7 updates into an updated install disk?
I reinstalled that on one system, but while it will register correctly and is updated, something must be missing because Windows Update won't work.

_________________
Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"

@nikosidis
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It can even be a pain to find programs that I installed.

Yes, that can be a pain. The Unix practice of grouping files by function (executables in /usr/bin, configuration in /etc, etc.) rather than by application has advantages (a shorter PATH) and disadvantages (applications spread out all over the file system). I think the trend toward container-based applications may mitigate this problem in the future; more apps will be install in /opt as complete applications. Both Red Hat and Ubuntu are going in this direction.

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If you are doing some distro remove all this protection stuff and get DOpus for it ;) Maybe I will try it.

Sorry, but removing protection mechanisms on a system that is connected to a network would be a crazy thing to do!

I've heard of people running Directory Opus on Wine, but I haven't tried it myself.

I made it up the Unix learning curve by necessity, since Unix was being used at the University I attended and I had to learn it to get a Computer Science degree. The first six months were painful, but after that it started making sense.

I think one could get fairly close to an Amiga experience on Linux by replacing bash with an AmigaDOS-like shell and changing the file system layout. The programming APIs wouldn't change, but I don't think most users would notice the differences much.

The first part -- writing a new shell -- isn't that difficult, but this raises another issue: bash may not be very good (I hate the Algol 68 syntax), then neither is AmigaDOS. Amiga only used it because they ran out of time and resources.

The second part -- changing the file system layout -- is not difficult in itself, but the compatibility problems with user programs would be never ending.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

@bison

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removing protection mechanisms on a system that is connected to a network would be a crazy thing to do

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the compatibility problems with user programs would be never ending

So why even give it consideration? There are very capable emulation options that would preserve compatibility. Even the early version of ALICE is showing how interoperability can be seamless.

The knocks against adapting a Unix core invariably come down to what people don't like about Linux. That's missing the point entirely.

MacOS is a great testament to how a donor can rapidly propel things forward transparently. Mac users never look at OS X and think about NeXTSTEP.

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I think one could get fairly close to an Amiga experience on Linux...

In time it would be indistinguishable and far more capable.

@Beans

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Frankly, what scares me most about my X64 system isn't the potential of backdoors, but Cortana and Windows10's collection of my personal data right out the front door. And thanks to the latest updates, its damned hard to disable. We need another lawsuit to remedy this situation.

I think this hits on the head why my primary system is AROS. I want something that I know I'm in control of. Also, being able to open web pages and e-mails without fear of malware is pretty nice (I would not, for example, do any internet shopping on anything else), and not needing a degree in computer science to install, configure and fix it if it gos wrong is handy too.

As to the earlier discusssion of the AROS flavours, I feel one of the great strengths of AROS is that it can be used on different architectures, with development and bug fixing on one branch helping to improve all verisions. I'd run the 68k myself but it's just too slow on my A500 (despite having an '020) and it refuses to boot on my PPC/060 1200. Although I'm not planning to buy a Vampire (I just don't use my classics enough to justify this), I think it and AROS could make an excellent pairing. Aside from that, a native version for Pi would make a great 'standard' system and be immensely useful for things like audio servers around the home - I just hope one day a Pi native distribution happens.

Cheers,
Nigel.

@ne_one

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So why even give it consideration?

I'm not sure what you mean, but I'll take a stab at it.

I am not considering dropping security. That was an easy decision.

As far as changing the file system layout, I think the best course is to watch projects that are doing that and see how it works out for them. Gobo Linux springs to mind.

https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=gobo

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

@ntromans

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it refuses to boot on my PPC/060 1200

wonder why..
its a4k ide that is problematic. a1200 should boot just fine..

@ne_one

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MacOS is a great testament to how a donor can rapidly propel things forward transparently. Mac users never look at OS X and think about NeXTSTEP.

OSX IS NeXTSTEP, and therefore IS BSD.
Frankly, I find previous versions of MacOS rather abhorent.

Something that grew from a base that didn't even feature a CLI, into a full featured operating system based on BSD but actually easy to adopt and figure out how to use.
Quite and accomplishment, and frankly one of the few things that Jobs promoted that I have real respect for (other than knowing how powerful the 68K cpu was).

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Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"

@wawa

Some oddity of the cyberstorm board I suppose.

Cheers,
Nigel.

@Beans

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OSX IS NeXTSTEP, and therefore IS BSD.

OS X userland is BSD, but the kernel is not.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner