@Dandy

It's very simple:

AmigaOS 4.1 FE and below to version 4.1 support the use of Zorro 3 memory cards as swap memory only. Maximum "main memory" is 256MB on a Blizzard PPC and 128MB on a Cyberstorm PPC. Swap memory is like buffer space that can be used by the kernel to swap out "pages" if "main memory" is exhausted, but it's much more complicated than if you had real "main" memory available.

AmigaOS 4.1 FE Update 1 added the ability to use Zorro 3 memory cards as "main memory". You add a command line option to the c:Bootloader line in the startup-sequence that would read:

C:Bootloader COMMANDLINE="NORAMPAGER"

That will tell the kernel to search for and add any Zorro 3 memory it finds to main memory instead of using it as swap memory. This only applies to the Classic version of AmigaOS 4.1 (for Classic Amigas with a Blizzard PPC or Cyberstorm PPC).

Obviously it works on WinUAE as well with some limitations (mostly on the graphics side - no Warp3D support, no compositing on WinUAE).

Last edited by HammerD on 10-Jan-2017 at 06:01 PM.
Last edited by HammerD on 10-Jan-2017 at 06:01 PM.
Last edited by HammerD on 10-Jan-2017 at 06:00 PM.

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@pavlor & HammerD:

Thanks for the info, guys!

Quote:

HammerD wrote: @Dandy It's very simple: AmigaOS 4.1 FE and below to version 4.1 support the use of Zorro 3 memory cards as swap memory only. Maximum "main memory" is 256MB on a Blizzard PPC and 128MB on a Cyberstorm PPC. Swap memory is like buffer space that can be used by the kernel to swap out "pages" if "main memory" is exhausted, but it's much more complicated than if you had real "main" memory available.

So my memory served me right.
I bought my copy of OS 4.0 classic back in 2007/2008 and when the ZorRAM was released later, it was stated that it could only be used as swap mem - so not really an advantage for me. So I had to get along with the 128 mB on my CSPPC...

Quote:

HammerD wrote: AmigaOS 4.1 FE Update 1 added the ability to use Zorro 3 memory cards as "main memory". You add a command line option to the c:Bootloader line in the startup-sequence that would read: C:Bootloader COMMANDLINE="NORAMPAGER" That will tell the kernel to search for and add any Zorro 3 memory it finds to main memory instead of using it as swap memory. This only applies to the Classic version of AmigaOS 4.1 (for Classic Amigas with a Blizzard PPC or Cyberstorm PPC).

That's really good news for me!
I think I will get at least one 256 mB ZorRAM and upgrade my 'experimental' Installation of OS 4.0 classic to OS 4.1 FE U1.

Aside from the lack of FastMEM, limited support for my hardware configuration was another reason for my OS4.0 installation being just 'experimental'.

But possibly this situation has also improved since then.

With OS 4.0 classic I could only have USB 1.1, while with OS 3.9 I could use the USB 2.0 highspeed mode with my Deneb.
Another shortcoming was that my NIC only worked in the 10 mBit mode, while with OS 3.9 I could use 100 mBit from the beginning.
Also it was stated that the Mediator PCI busboards only had "limited support" in OS 4.0 classic.

Quote:

HammerD wrote: Obviously it works on WinUAE as well with some limitations (mostly on the graphics side - no Warp3D support, no compositing on WinUAE).

So I should also upgrade my "AmigaForever 2006" to the latest version and be able to use a copy of my A4kPPC harddrive on my Win10 64 Bit quadcore PC at my other home and at work? Great!

But I will have to find out what "no Warp3D support, no compositing" exactly means for me. I'm not sure if I have software that relies on that...

I think I will order OS 4.1 classic FE U1, at least one ZorRAM and the latest version of AmigaForever as soon as possible...

Just one more question:
Can I also use the 'DKB 3128 Zorro Memory Card' or the '256mB-ZIII-BigRamPlus Memory Expansion' as FastRAM with OS 4.1 classic FE U1, or can only the ZorRAM boards be used as FastRAM?

EDIT:
'BigRamPlus'-part added

Last edited by Dandy on 11-Jan-2017 at 09:06 AM.

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@Dandy

Quote:

Dandy wrote: Just one more question: Can I also use the 'DKB 3128 Zorro Memory Card' or the '256mB-ZIII-BigRamPlus Memory Expansion' as FastRAM with OS 4.1 classic FE U1, or can only the ZorRAM boards be used as FastRAM? EDIT: 'BigRamPlus'-part added

Answer, yes, BigRAM+, DKB 3128, both should work the same as the ZorRAM.

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@HammerD

Quote:

HammerD wrote: @Dandy Quote: Dandy wrote: Just one more question: Can I also use the 'DKB 3128 Zorro Memory Card' or the '256mB-ZIII-BigRamPlus Memory Expansion' as FastRAM with OS 4.1 classic FE U1, or can only the ZorRAM boards be used as FastRAM? EDIT: 'BigRamPlus'-part added Answer, yes, BigRAM+, DKB 3128, both should work the same as the ZorRAM.

Thanks for the info.

Do you have knowledge of any reports that the BigRam+ or the ZorRAM don`t properly work in the Z-III busboards of the Micronik A4000 BigBox Tower Conversion Kit, even if Buster 11 is on the mobo?
As this is my config - and I would not be very happy if I would buy one of the cards and then would have to learn it doesn`t work in my config...

On the Vesalia website they say for the BigRam+:
" BigRamPlus is only guaranteed to work with the original daughter boards of these computers, there is no warranty it will work properly with third party bus boards made by Micronik, RBM, Eagle, Elbox, etc. "

On the amigakit.com page is is stated for the ZorRAM:
" Note: This product is Zorro III only and will not work with Zorro II Amigas or some Zorro busboards. "

It would also be interesting to know if I can use several of the cards, as AmigaKit.com states for the ZorRAM:
"Commodore A3640 and GVP 4060DT CPU cards support 4x ZorRAM 256MB cards installed".
Is this also possible with the CyberstormPPC "CPU card"?
And if so, is this also valid for the BigRam+?

EDIT:
I have to add that my Mediator PCI busboard (wiht Voodoo4, Terratec 512i digital and a 10/100 mBit NIC) and my Deneb USB 2.0 host adapter work flawlessly in my Micronik Z-III busboard.

Last edited by Dandy on 11-Jan-2017 at 07:05 PM.

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@Dandy

Quote:

Dandy wrote: Thanks for the info. Do you have knowledge of any reports that the BigRam+ or the ZorRAM don`t properly work in the Z-III busboards of the Micronik A4000 BigBox Tower Conversion Kit, even if Buster 11 is on the mobo? As this is my config - and I would not be very happy if I would buy one of the cards and then would have to learn it doesn`t work in my config... On the Vesalia website they say for the BigRam+: " BigRamPlus is only guaranteed to work with the original daughter boards of these computers, there is no warranty it will work properly with third party bus boards made by Micronik, RBM, Eagle, Elbox, etc. " On the amigakit.com page is is stated for the ZorRAM: " Note: This product is Zorro III only and will not work with Zorro II Amigas or some Zorro busboards. " It would also be interesting to know if I can use several of the cards, as AmigaKit.com states for the ZorRAM: "Commodore A3640 and GVP 4060DT CPU cards support 4x ZorRAM 256MB cards installed". Is this also possible with the CyberstormPPC "CPU card"? And if so, is this also valid for the BigRam+? EDIT: I have to add that my Mediator PCI busboard (wiht Voodoo4, Terratec 512i digital and a 10/100 mBit NIC) and my Deneb USB 2.0 host adapter work flawlessly in my Micronik Z-III busboard.

I'm afraid I don't know all the specifics, but I do recall that the BigRAM+ is only verified/supported to work on an original C= backplane. That doesn't mean it won't work in other ones. There probably is more info on this on http://www.a1k.org, or at least you could ask there in the Hardware forum or the International section.

And of course the Individual computers Wiki site for the BigRam+:

http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/BigRamPlus

It states this:

"BigRamPlus works in every A3000 and A4000. This applies to desktop and tower models by Commodore and Escom, provided that they're using the original daughter board. Tower-modifications such as Eagle, RBM, Mikronik or Elbox will not work reliably. We can't guarantee proper function of BigRamPlus in such modified computers. Only use the original Commodore daughter board.
If your computer is still using the old Buster chip revision 7 or 9, we recommend to upgrade to the latest version 11, which is available separately. Your reseller will help you identifying the chip.
You need Kickstart V2.0 to activate BigRamPlus. In this case, all 256MBytes of BigRamPlus will be added to the system's free memory. Using BigRamPlus under Kickstart 1.3 or lower requires special software that we don't provide."

I do know that ZorRAM will work on GREX 4000, Elbox Mediator, and obviously the C= backplane. I've tested both the 128MB and 256MB versions on all those backplanes...

I don't own a BigRAM+, but i can't see why it wouldn't work with a Cyberstorm 060/PPC as the CPU card. I think the limitation is some of those 3rd party backplanes had some differences or didn't follow C= specs to the letter, thus compatibility with some of them (probably the earlier ones) cannot be guaranteed.

Last edited by HammerD on 11-Jan-2017 at 08:26 PM.
Last edited by HammerD on 11-Jan-2017 at 08:23 PM.

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So, guys, any idea how to get OS4.1 to recognize some pci sound card? I've enabled Mediator
4000 PCI full DMA, I've tried enabling forte media and in OS4.1 I've copied the relevant files in AHI and audiomodes in devs: , also pci.library in libs: , but no luck so far. Any idea what am I missing?

Thx!

@vulture

WinUAE?

I use ES1370 PCI with driver from OS4 depot. What pci.library? It should work just with AHI driver.

@pavlor

thx for the tip, I'm gonna try this, I was using the ahi drivers from mediator cd, too long since I've installed that on my real A1200/Mediator setup. Thx m8!

@vulture

There is my config of winaue in which all the stuff (mediator wth sound card (drivers on os4depot), network card, that all with cyberstorm, zorro ram, uaegfx and co). All you will need its your hardfiles, rom for cyberstorm and kickstart: http://kas1e.mikendezign.com/aos4/winuae/amigaos4.uae

@all
How make mouse wheel working in winaue/os4 ? Should't it just works by default even on classics ? I mean not some old tools , but make it works and reacts on IDCMP_EXTENDEDMOUSE, etc.

Last edited by kas1e on 15-Jan-2017 at 12:41 PM.
Last edited by kas1e on 15-Jan-2017 at 12:39 PM.
Last edited by kas1e on 15-Jan-2017 at 12:35 PM.

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@kas1e

Quote:

How make mouse wheel working in winaue/os4 ?

I use FreeWheel.

Quote:

I mean not some old tools , but make it works and reacts on IDCMP_EXTENDEDMOUSE, etc.

Ask Hyperion...

@pavlor

After reading there and there, seems that as we emulate standard-classic amiga mouse, by default there is none support for wheel, so all those FreeWheel patches need it. But, there is also lots of usb adapters like from Elbox, Individual Computers, etc , and, maybe some of them have native os4 ones drivers for. Dunno if anything from that will works on winuae through..

edit: Also reading on utilitybase, that:
---
The mouse wheel worked only when the mouse had been connected through a USB or PS/2 port. Users overcame this difficulty by using the FreeWheel program created for AmigaOS3.x. From now there is no need to use FreeWheel. The wheels now work perfectly in mouses connected through USB and PS/2 ports as well.
---

So question is how to enable anything which will point that mouse is not standard classic one, but usb/ps2/whatever one

Last edited by kas1e on 15-Jan-2017 at 02:10 PM.
Last edited by kas1e on 15-Jan-2017 at 02:09 PM.

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@all
About mouse wheel problem:

There is no needs for FreeWheel (as it probably wrong for os4, as os4 already have wheel support), and thats besides 68k. So, all what need is properly translates NewMouse events into native IECLASS_MOUSEWHEEL events. Thomas Rapp already made that tool and called nm2mw. Can be downloaded here : http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2708
(see one of posts from Thomas, program attached).

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@kas1e

Tried, don´t like. Use FreeWheel anyway.

@pavlor
Quote:

don´t like

What don't like ? It should works as well as doing it "right" :)

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@kas1e

Try scrolling in WB windows (list view).

@VooDoo

Quote:

VooDoo wrote: @SinanG ... "Hardware Compatibility: AmigaOne XE & SE, AmigaOne 500, AmigaOne X1000, Sam440, Sam460, Pegasos 2, Amiga Classic PPC. The AmigaOne X5000 line of computers is already equipped with Update 1 and does therefore not need this update." What about AmigeOne micro (uA1c) ?? No support for it ? :)

As you are just talking about "Hardware Compatibility":

On my A4kPPC, I have an 'experimental' Installation of OS 4.0 classic.

'Experimental', as it didn't support my hardware setup sufficiently.
I.e., just USB 1.1 mode supported instead of the USB 2.0 highspeed mode I can have with OS 3.9, just 10 mBit network bandwidth instead of 100 mBit and 'limited support' for the Mediator busboard. This all was mentioned in the documentation included in the OS 4.0 classic box.

Furthermore there was the problem that the max. RAM were the 128 mB on the CSPPC, wich is just sufficient to run the OS itself and a small program.

Meanwhile I bought OS 4.1 FE (as well as 512 mB Z-III RAM), but there was no mention of such limitations in the booklet inside the CD-box.

Does this now mean that USB 2.0 highspeed mode is now supported in OS 4.1 FE classic, as well as 100 mBit network bandwidth mode?

Has the support for the Mediator PCI busboard been improved in OS 4.1 FE classic compared to the level of support for it in OS 4.0 classic?

Any information about this?

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@Dandy

My only (working) classic OS4 machine is an A1200/BPPC/BVision (with no USB, and with a measly 10 Mb/s PCMCIA network card ), and I've never had a Mediator, so I don't know myself.

But I'd recommend asking about this over in Hyperion's Classic Support forum, where among others DarrenHD usually has a lot of knowledge about those configurations.

http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/viewforum.php?f=15

Best regards,

Niels

@Dandy

i do own a mediator 4kdi but im not planning on to buy os4.1 for it just to move some icons around. my guess is, that all what concerns particular dma solutions has not improved, since os4 on its native platforms seems to be lacking it, at least in many cases, however its mostly not being communicated and the users treat it as normal. in particular pci dma on elbox hardware is concerned as a hack (which it is, albeit useful) and as such being intentionally unsupported since ever. dma on zorro is also exeptional and tricky, as only a small amount of genuine devices takes advantage of this anyway. as an early eab customer i took unvolunterily part in testing and debugging perticular (buster) configs. wouldnt expect os4 to get any that far in detail on hardware support front.

what you probably can count on is a better warp3d (the genuine one) usage, as os4 drivers should take advntage of bigger ram on radeon cards to store 3d textures there while thereby reducing data traffic on zorro bus. but thats not what i can personally confirm.

what concerns the mousewheel support its been usually pretty a non issue if using a morphos input.device, which i think was delivered or mentioned how to obtain with mediator setup. i dont remember how that works with os4 i must admit.

@nbache

Quote:

nbache wrote: @Dandy ... But I'd recommend asking about this over in Hyperion's Classic Support forum, where among others DarrenHD usually has a lot of knowledge about those configurations. http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/viewforum.php?f=15 Best regards, Niels

Thanks for your recommendation, Niels!
I'll go there and ask...

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Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@wawa

Quote:

wawa wrote: @Dandy i do own a mediator 4kdi but im not planning on to buy os4.1 for it just to move some icons around.

After having installed AOS 4.0 classic 10 yrs ago and realising that it is of limited usability at best I was thinking along these lines, as well.

Back then I only had 64 mB RAM onboard the CyberstormPPC, which was definitely too little to do something reasonable with OS4 other than moving Icons around. But even after having added another 64 mB RAM it was still too little RAM - and so I stayed with OS 3.9 up to today. OS 3.9 allowed me furthermore to use the USB 2.0 highspeed mode and 100 mBit mode for broadband access, where OS 4 just allowed USB 1.1 mode and 10 mBit mode for broadband.

Furthermore it was stated that it has just 'limited support for Mediator PCI' busboards.

With OS 4.1 FE classic U1 things changed - at least regarding the RAM.
It was stated that Z-III RAM could be used as real FastRAM in OS 4.1 FE classic U1.

So I ordered 512 mB (2xBigRam+) and saw in OS 3.9 it was accepted.

As I had payed a fortune for my towered Amiga 4000 PPC with all the expansions (more than 15,000 DM back then, today roughly 7,500 €), the price for AOS 4.1 FE classic (27.90 €) seemed O.K. to me and so I ordered it as well.

Before I can install it, I will have to take my A4kPPC apart.

In the OS 4.1 FE booklet it is explicitely stated that one should ensure that the cooling of the PPC CPU on the CSPPC is o.k. (i.e. heatsink and fan properly mounted, fan working).

When I fitted the two BigRam+ I noticed that the fan of the PPC was loosely dangling about. In the course of the last two decades the screws had worked loose and finally fallen off.

To avoid damage to the PPC CPU by overheating I will have to fix that first, as OS 4.x exclusively runs on the PPC.

Unfortunately I will have to take the machine halfway apart for this, as the PPC is hidden behind the bracket for the HDDs and the FDDs and by that not easily accessible for refitting the fan:


Quote:

wawa wrote: my guess is, that all what concerns particular dma solutions has not improved, since os4 on its native platforms seems to be lacking it, at least in many cases, however its mostly not being communicated and the users treat it as normal.

I cannot assess this unless the machine is fixed and OS 4.1 FE installed.
All I can tell so far is that the Mediator, the Deneb USB host and furthermore two BigRam+ are flawlessly working together in my Z-III slots.
As far as I know, Mediator and Deneb use DMA - not sure abnout the BigRams, though...

Quote:

wawa wrote: in particular pci dma on elbox hardware is concerned as a hack (which it is, albeit useful) and as such being intentionally unsupported since ever. dma on zorro is also exeptional and tricky, as only a small amount of genuine devices takes advantage of this anyway.

Yes, I know.
But to be honest, I never really understood why the Mediator was 'torn to pieces' by so many developers.

For me as an end user it has always worked flawlessly so far - being 'a hack' or not.

And even worse - I use my Zorro expansions in a Mikronik Z-III busboard, which was 'torn to pieces' by many developers as well.

Needless to mention that all my Zorro expansions work flawlessly in it. What possibly *should* be mentioned is that I have Buster 11 onboard...

So I somehow got the suspect that all this whining of quite a number of developers about the "inferior" Mediator PCI busboard and the "crappy" Mikronik Z-III busboard is just because they have a personal aversion for Elbox and Mikronik...

Quote:

wawa wrote: what you probably can count on is a better warp3d (the genuine one) usage, as os4 drivers should take advntage of bigger ram on radeon cards to store 3d textures there while thereby reducing data traffic on zorro bus. but thats not what i can personally confirm.

Bummer - I 'just' have a Voodoo4 PCI...

Quote:

wawa wrote: what concerns the mousewheel support its been usually pretty a non issue if using a morphos input.device, which i think was delivered or mentioned how to obtain with mediator setup. i dont remember how that works with os4 i must admit.

Ouch - mousewheel support using a morphos input.device delivered or mentioned how to obtain with mediator setup?

Hum - I use a PS2/USB wheelmouse with my A4kPPC from the beginning.
My optical Logitech USB wheelmouse is connected to an USB -> PS/2 adapter, which is plugged into the Cocolino.
This one in turn is plugged into an automatic mouseport switch sitting on the Amiga mouse port. The switch allows having one mouse and two Joysticks connected to the Amiga at the same time without the need of replugging when you need two joysticks.
I cannot remember if I use an additional software to make the scrollwheel work - I never touched it again since I installed it roughly 20 years ago - and it worked flawlessly since then.

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Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)