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g01df1sh
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Apple doing things the amiga way Posted on 2-Feb-2017 21:17:29
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Super Member |
Joined: 16-Apr-2009 Posts: 1777
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BigD
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Re: Apple doing things the amiga way Posted on 3-Feb-2017 0:23:52
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Elite Member |
Joined: 11-Aug-2005 Posts: 7307
From: UK | | |
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| @g01df1sh
Quote:
Apple is doing things the amiga way with custom chips. Only taken them 15-20 years lol |
So it's an Arm chip to power the touch bar on MacBook Pros in the short term and a battery saving 'power nap' mode in the medium term? To have any sort of masses not the classes discrete GPU in a MacBook Pro would be more reminiscent of the Amiga. The fact that you can play Doom on the touch bar doesn't count as major innovation (although it's funny as hell )
Doom on a MacBook Pro touch bar_________________ "Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art." John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios |
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asymetrix
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Re: Apple doing things the amiga way Posted on 3-Feb-2017 2:09:47
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Cult Member |
Joined: 9-Mar-2003 Posts: 868
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agami
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Re: Apple doing things the amiga way Posted on 3-Feb-2017 5:25:43
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Joined: 30-Jun-2008 Posts: 1637
From: Melbourne, Australia | | |
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| @g01df1sh
I was going to pretty much post the exact same observation. I can see them adding more and more custom silicon in order to differentiate themselves. That's what I would to if I had chip designers on the payroll. _________________ All the way, with 68k |
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TRIPOS
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Re: Apple doing things the amiga way Posted on 6-Feb-2017 8:38:48
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Super Member |
Joined: 4-Apr-2014 Posts: 1204
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| @BigD
The chips Apple has used for a couple of years now in iPhone and iPad is very similar to Intel Core i7 in design and has delivered desktop performance for a very long time now, if you by "desktop performance" mean the couple of years old machines most people are using. But this on a battery powered, passively cooled environment like a phone. I am perfectly convinced that Apple, if they wanted, could easily and rapidly make a proper desktop/laptop CPU out of their ARM design, to run actively cooled at high frequencies. They probably have this in some lab already for evaluation. |
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Hypex
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Re: Apple doing things the amiga way Posted on 6-Feb-2017 9:08:41
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Elite Member |
Joined: 6-May-2007 Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia | | |
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| @TRIPOS
Yes. They call it it iPad.
Perhaps in future that will become a DeskPad or LapPad. Or even NotePad. A lot of people have given up on conventional computers and just use an iPad. Yes Samsung and other brands produce pads but I've hardly seen a non-iPad the last few years.
I couldn't do it. A computer you can't download an OS ISO on to write to USB or CD to fix a broken notebook is useless in my experience. But somehow Apple have made such a computer popular. Does anyone do anything on computers these days except browse and open apps? It can't even play DVDs. |
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Amigo1
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Re: Apple doing things the amiga way Posted on 6-Feb-2017 12:09:11
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Super Member |
Joined: 24-Jun-2004 Posts: 1582
From: the Clouds | | |
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| @asymetrix
Can PPaint do colorcycling or was it only DPaints ability? |
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TRIPOS
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Re: Apple doing things the amiga way Posted on 6-Feb-2017 12:25:34
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Joined: 4-Apr-2014 Posts: 1204
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BigD
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Re: Apple doing things the amiga way Posted on 6-Feb-2017 12:50:57
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Elite Member |
Joined: 11-Aug-2005 Posts: 7307
From: UK | | |
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| @TRIPOS
Quote:
OMG! Did you just make a reference to an... optical media? |
Apple dropped the ball on their dealing with optical media. My last workplace needed an external Blu-Ray burner for the Macs to archive video and free up harddrive/server space. If you watch any design company on The Apprentice they have extrernal optical drives and I've upgraded my MacBook Pro Superdrive with a Panasonic Blu-Ray burner for backup, films and home movie burning. The Cloud and YouTube are not suitable for ALL video/file storage especially after all the hacking incidence that have been occuring!
Why buy a new MacBook Pro with less ports, no Blu-Ray, no removable battery, no MagSafe? For a Touch Bar and £300 more for the privilege? Get lost Apple, if a Blu-Ray drive is useful for customers then offer it as an option or lose the customers!_________________ "Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art." John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios |
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TRIPOS
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Re: Apple doing things the amiga way Posted on 6-Feb-2017 14:40:30
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Super Member |
Joined: 4-Apr-2014 Posts: 1204
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| @BigD
Apple didn't "drop the ball" on anything, virtually no-one is using optical media today, that's why pretty much everyone (not just Apple) stopped selling machines with it! It's like Floppies! Dead (and rightly so)! So do yourself a favor and get yourself a nice NAS for your archives, it's cheaper, safer, so much faster and soooo much more convenient. It's probably better for the environment as well!
You can't expect computer manufacturers to generally include things not needed nor wanted by customers, just because you want it, you understand that, right? If you persist in using optical media, then having an external one is a perfect compromise. I see no problem whatsoever in that, and frankly I don't understand your complaints.
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TRIPOS
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Re: Apple doing things the amiga way Posted on 6-Feb-2017 14:40:39
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Super Member |
Joined: 4-Apr-2014 Posts: 1204
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| @BigD
Apple didn't "drop the ball" on anything, virtually no-one is using optical media today, that's why pretty much everyone (not just Apple) stopped selling machines with it! It's like Floppies! Dead (and rightly so)! So do yourself a favor and get yourself a nice NAS for your archives, it's cheaper, safer, so much faster and soooo much more convenient. It's probably better for the environment as well!
You can't expect computer manufacturers to generally include things not needed nor wanted by customers, just because you want it, you understand that, right? If you persist in using optical media, then having an external one is a perfect compromise. I see no problem whatsoever in that, and frankly I don't understand your complaints.
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Hypex
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Re: Apple doing things the amiga way Posted on 6-Feb-2017 14:59:54
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Joined: 6-May-2007 Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia | | |
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| @Amigo1
It can do animation so it should be able to. It was like an OS friendly clone of DPaint. Well it was similar anyway and works on OS4. |
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Leo
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Re: Apple doing things the amiga way Posted on 6-Feb-2017 15:02:17
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Super Member |
Joined: 21-Aug-2003 Posts: 1597
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| Quote:
Can PPaint do colorcycling or was it only DPaints ability?
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Color cycling is specific to palette (= 8bit/-) video modes, it is not specific to deluxe paint (or the Amiga).Last edited by Leo on 07-Feb-2017 at 03:52 PM.
_________________ http://www.warpdesign.fr/ |
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Leo
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Re: Apple doing things the amiga way Posted on 6-Feb-2017 15:07:56
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Super Member |
Joined: 21-Aug-2003 Posts: 1597
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| PC (& Macs) have been doing things the Amiga way for years.
Since DirectX most graphic operations are offloaded on the graphics card.
Even user interfaces are now entirely handled by the GPU.
Now they are offloading things on ARM cores to reduce battery usage & avoid waking up x86 cores: that's what they do with the T1 chip that powers the touchbar, and they are planning to go even further with new chips that may access the main RAM. _________________ http://www.warpdesign.fr/ |
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Hypex
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Re: Apple doing things the amiga way Posted on 6-Feb-2017 15:11:54
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Elite Member |
Joined: 6-May-2007 Posts: 11180
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Amigo1
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Re: Apple doing things the amiga way Posted on 6-Feb-2017 19:36:54
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Super Member |
Joined: 24-Jun-2004 Posts: 1582
From: the Clouds | | |
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| @Leo
Quote:
Leo wrote: Quote:
Can PPaint do colorcycling or was it only DPaints ability?
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Color cycling is specific to palette 8bit video modes, it is not specific to deluxe paint (or the Amiga). |
Yes but does PPaint have the functions to do that? I remember DPaint had a menu to where you can set the range for the cycling and so on, I was not able to find it in PPaint. But maybe it's just me not knowing how to use the App. Is someone using PPaint and knows how to do color cycling there?Last edited by Amigo1 on 06-Feb-2017 at 07:38 PM.
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BigD
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Re: Apple doing things the amiga way Posted on 6-Feb-2017 20:04:46
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Elite Member |
Joined: 11-Aug-2005 Posts: 7307
From: UK | | |
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| @TRIPOS
Quote:
You can't expect computer manufacturers to generally include things not needed nor wanted by customers, just because you want it, you understand that, right? If you persist in using optical media, then having an external one is a perfect compromise. I see no problem whatsoever in that, and frankly I don't understand your complaints. |
They did drop the ball in the sense they've increased their prices for less features and less ergonomic solutions. They pride theselves on sleek form factor over specification with thin machines with rubbish GPUs. If you try and actually 'do' anything creative with a Mac involving burning or syncing or actually using a USB-C port, your desk or lap is quickly a mess of dongles external devices and is just a 'mess'! Apple suck and they've sucked since Jobs passed away. Yes he hated Blu-Ray too but at least users like myself could remove the Superdrive and add one ourselves. Therefore, my 'obsolete' Mac laptop is neat, has lots of ports, no dongles, a removable battery to save the machine from a water spill, a Magsafe to save the machine from trips and an internal Blu-Ray burner. Why would I trade it in for an 'upgraded' laptop with less features but with a mm less aluminium shaved off the bottom?
As I previously demonstrated these features are wanted as my previous work place needed a burner, I need a burner, video editors most probably need a burner and external optical drives look apalling and mess up the sleek asethetic that Apple products are supposed to be about. If I want to archive multiple DVD images I'll put them on a Blu-Ray, if I want to give some home video to a family member I'll send them a DVD. The internet is too slow/insecure for such things and NAS is overkill for archiving multi GB ISO images.
They have dropped the ball because they lost me as a customer and my old workplace are unlikely to buy Macs again because they messed up Final Cut Pro too. Everyone creative in video will be using PCs with Adobe Premiere and there is no reason to own a 'touch bar' MacBook Pro unless you want to impress people in Star Bucks! Apple suck and they've never been more about style over substance than they are right now. if Mac sales become insignificant compared to iPhones and iPads (and they probably already are) then it's their own fault because their new 'Pro' machines are not fit for purpose! I expect Mac machines to become casual web browsing machines and nothing more. You can shove your car hire/Uber/bad mobile games/Hive Smart Thermostat/Smart Phone apps where the sun don't shine and get back to making a creative computer please Apple.
A custom ARM chip to improve the sleep mode battery life isn't going to change my mind Last edited by BigD on 06-Feb-2017 at 08:19 PM. Last edited by BigD on 06-Feb-2017 at 08:16 PM. Last edited by BigD on 06-Feb-2017 at 08:10 PM.
_________________ "Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art." John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios |
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Hypex
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Re: Apple doing things the amiga way Posted on 7-Feb-2017 2:53:34
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Elite Member |
Joined: 6-May-2007 Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia | | |
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| @TRIPOS
Also.
Quote:
Apple didn't "drop the ball" on anything, virtually no-one is using optical media today, that's why pretty much everyone (not just Apple) stopped selling machines with it! |
They still sell DVDs in shops even though Bluray should have made them obsolete. And a modern PC would have a BLu ray drive. As well as USB ports.
So a movie buff wants to play a movie on his new Mac. "No that won't work. It doesn't have a drive. It's like an Amiga, You can't play those movies on it."
They still sell CDs. They should have been replaced by SACD. But instead inferior mp3s and iTunes took over. Not because they are superior to CD (which is dated quality against studio quality), and probably not because physical items take up space, but because every one is a bunch of pirates and thinks of internet files as free.
But a main problem that doesn't go away is backups. Mechanical drives cannot be trusted. And I would trust SSD drives less. Optical media lasts well in storage. Cloud storage, on whatever medium it uses, is likely only run at an average USB2 transfer speed on the fastest expensive internet.
A friend in my club thinks tape backups are the way to go. Best solution but don't compress your files. Yeah, can't buy that at your local compuiter shop. So that's as useless as a computer you can't plug a drive into. |
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Massi
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Re: Apple doing things the amiga way Posted on 7-Feb-2017 14:43:59
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Cult Member |
Joined: 2-Feb-2011 Posts: 627
From: Rome, Italy | | |
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| @All
I guess many engineers started at Apple sooner or later after Commodore Amiga, not a big surprise.
_________________ SAM440EP-FLEX @ 733 Mhz, AmigaOS 4.1 Update 1 |
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WolfpackN64
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Re: Apple doing things the amiga way Posted on 7-Feb-2017 23:25:54
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Regular Member |
Joined: 8-Oct-2016 Posts: 300
From: Unknown | | |
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| @g01df1sh
The Apple IIGS had a costum made graphics chip in 1986, so technically, it only took them one year to do something similar. |
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