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      /  Warning to Amiga buyers and sellers
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mattk 
Warning to Amiga buyers and sellers
Posted on 16-Feb-2017 13:36:55
#1 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 242
From: England

Heart broken. That's how I feel right now.

Yesterday I realised fully for the first time that I have been defrauded by an eBay buyer, using a ploy that seems more common that I might have expected. I thought I'd write this as a warning to others. And because this guy is still out there.

Last month I sold a complete Amiga A4000 Desktop set-up, in really nice cosmetic condition, with Cybergraphics 64/3D, 258MB RAM and matching LCD monitor. Here is the original item on eBay. I put a lot of effort into making this a really nice item, cleaning everything, setting everything up just right.

The buyer seemed happy at first. Gave me positive feedback. I did so in return. But then immediately the complaints began and out the blue a return request. To cut a very long story short, he came up with multiple apparent faults with the computer, often contradictory. I tried in good faith to work with him to solve these issues, none of which the machine had any time before. He played along, but his answers made no sense and he kept changing his story. Eventually he got nasty, describing the machine as only good for scrap/parts, etc. Then tried extorting money from me as "compensation" for fixing the faults. I had no choice but to accept the return and pay for the postage. I reasoned that he wasn't an experienced user and simply had buyer remorse. After all, I would easily be able to resell the machine again...

Yesterday the package arrived. This is what I sent him vs what I got back in return:




Essentially he has just filled the original packaging with misc junk Dell/Compaq PC parts and other trash, to make it up to the same approximate weight. Obviously I have immediately opened a case with eBay, but not expecting much help. It seems they just blanket refund buyers even in these cases. It is just going to be his word against mine isn't it? The buyer (Mark Steel / steelmm2013 aka spaceman20006, from Isle of Man) has built up a lot of positive feedback and seems to still be buying lots of stuff. (Including items that look like they are destined to be used in the A4000!!)

UPDATE 20th Feb:

Unsurprisingly, eBay have sided with the buyer. They have already refunded the full amount back to him. No consideration whatsoever for the fact he still has my A4000. I have reported him to the Police.

Last edited by mattk on 21-Apr-2017 at 07:40 AM.
Last edited by mattk on 08-Mar-2017 at 06:43 PM.
Last edited by mattk on 20-Feb-2017 at 12:41 PM.

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Hypex 
Re: Warning to Amiga buyers and sellers
Posted on 16-Feb-2017 14:01:15
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8637
From: Greensborough, Australia

@mattk

Sorry to hear about that Matt. If only you could have kept it to yourself or sold it to a genuine Amiga lover. It's unfortunate in the world we live in that just because someone is an Amiga person doesn't stop them from being a jerk set out to fraud and extort you.

And the nerve of him him trying to extort money out of you. Obviously this is the old bait and switch. Trying to reverse blame and produce guilt where there is none in order to protect one self or extort money.

I agree with you over eBay. I once my self lost some money over a dispute where I got the run around and eBay said contact PayPal. PayPal said contact eBay. I paid for an item via PayPal and the seller claimed he didn't get the money and wanted cash. And that I should ask them about it. In the meantime the buyer removed his account and with it my money. I bet eBay and PlayPal work together and do this on purpose. I usually wouldn't have paid cash like that but I was helping a friend who borrowed a station wagon to pick up this big TV. I should have gone to the police.

It's a bit much to expect a second hand item to be perfect in any way. But that picture looks real nice. I wonder if the money is taken from you automatically or if you have to send it back? Aside from that I would consider taking the matter to the police. Since the ex-buyer is now in possession of stolen goods.

Last edited by Hypex on 16-Feb-2017 at 02:07 PM.

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klx300r 
Re: Warning to Amiga buyers and sellers
Posted on 16-Feb-2017 14:19:15
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2008
Posts: 3171
From: Toronto, Canada

@mattk

ah man that's such a gorgeous A4000! what a total a*hole do us a favour and post his email here for all to see. At least i beg you to PM it to me !

I'm going to send a message to EBay about this and I've already got a sticky up on my monitor with this fools EBay handle...karmas a b*tch

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uponthevoid 
Re: Warning to Amiga buyers and sellers
Posted on 16-Feb-2017 14:25:40
#4 ]
Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2015
Posts: 14
From: Unknown

@Hypex
I would agree. You should definitely take this to the police as a criminal act has taken place. Plus you've got his address and it shouldn't too hard for them to sort out. One visit to his home would probably unearth a few more things they can put him away for.


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Xenic 
Re: Warning to Amiga buyers and sellers
Posted on 16-Feb-2017 14:26:39
#5 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Feb-2004
Posts: 1211
From: Pennsylvania, USA

@mattk
Quote:
The buyer (Marc Steel / steelmm2013) has built up a lot of positive feedback and seems to still be buying lots of stuff. (Including items that look like they are destined to be used in the A4000!!)

Even his name seems a little suspicious.
"mark" is a slang term for the victim of a scam.
Steel is pronounced the same as "steal".

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klx300r 
Re: Warning to Amiga buyers and sellers
Posted on 16-Feb-2017 14:30:29
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2008
Posts: 3171
From: Toronto, Canada

Quote:

uponthevoid wrote:
@Hypex
I would agree. You should definitely take this to the police as a criminal act has taken place. Plus you've got his address and it shouldn't too hard for them to sort out. One visit to his home would probably unearth a few more things they can put him away for.



+1 though most likely this fool has done this more than once and his EBay address is most likely an unmarked P.O box somewhere...not sure Police can get his 'real' address legally anyhow on cyber cases like this??

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c64-2sids, A1000, A1200T-060@50(finally working!),A4000-CSMKIII
! My Master Miggies- Amiga 1000 & AmigaOne X1000 !
mancave-ramblings
X1000 I BELIEVE

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m0lebrain 
Re: Warning to Amiga buyers and sellers
Posted on 16-Feb-2017 14:32:28
#7 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 21-Apr-2004
Posts: 338
From: South Western PA

@mattk

Wow, I'm sooo hurt by this! :( It is not even a money thing at this point...wow. Thanks for the information. I think we need to make it known on other Amiga communities to avoid any a4000 sales from this jerkface.

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Rob 
Re: Warning to Amiga buyers and sellers
Posted on 16-Feb-2017 14:34:30
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5565
From: S.Wales

@mattk

Maybe the threat of the small claims court will be enough to encourage Ebay to resolve the situation. I would also recommend filing a complaint with the Police if he is in the UK. He made a false representation in order to gain your property. His prints should also be all over the junk he sent you and if you're lucky yours may still be on your hardware if it still in his possession. You also have a record of all correspondence between him and yourself.

Whatever the case you should get the police involved because your loss is probably just part of the picture.

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Rob 
Re: Warning to Amiga buyers and sellers
Posted on 16-Feb-2017 14:39:14
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5565
From: S.Wales

@klx300r

Paypal will be linked to his bank account which will be linked to a real address somewhere.

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mattk 
Re: Warning to Amiga buyers and sellers
Posted on 16-Feb-2017 14:40:07
#10 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 242
From: England

@Hypex

Quote:
I wonder if the money is taken from you automatically or if you have to send it back?


I gather that eBay will automatically refund the buyer themselves then chase me for the money. I see ebay forum messages from people in similar situations saying that debt collection agents have been set on them.

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mattk 
Re: Warning to Amiga buyers and sellers
Posted on 16-Feb-2017 14:44:26
#11 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 242
From: England

@klx300r

Quote:
do us a favour and post his email here for all to see


I don't want to break any forum rules here. But just looks like a disposable @manx.net address anyway. I hope I am giving enough information for others to recognise him in future, and at least be wary of selling any high value items to him.

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mattk 
Re: Warning to Amiga buyers and sellers
Posted on 16-Feb-2017 14:49:13
#12 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 242
From: England

@Xenic

Quote:
Even his name seems a little suspicious


You're right, that has only just occurred to me too. But I was a little suspicious right from the start because he didn't seem to decide whether he spelled it 'marc' or 'mark'. That's something I need to remember to point out to eBay.

The PayPal account he used goes under the name 'Capture enterprises'. In hindsight that seems suspicious too.

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Signman 
Re: Warning to Amiga buyers and sellers
Posted on 16-Feb-2017 14:53:37
#13 ]
Member
Joined: 16-Aug-2016
Posts: 77
From: Unknown

@mattk

Blanket refunds even for obvious criminal actions. Ebay themselves are criminal.

You will always be in the wrong as a seller in ebay no matter how well the transaction was handled. Always.

Now, even crooks get away with it. A lot easier for the ebay shites to keep money flowing in their accounts.

Really sorry this happened to you.

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Signman 
Re: Warning to Amiga buyers and sellers
Posted on 16-Feb-2017 14:53:43
#14 ]
Member
Joined: 16-Aug-2016
Posts: 77
From: Unknown

@mattk

Blanket refunds even for obvious criminal actions. Ebay themselves are criminal.

You will always be in the wrong as a seller in ebay no matter how well the transaction was handled. Always.

Now, even crooks get away with it. A lot easier for the ebay shites to keep money flowing in their accounts.

Really sorry this happened to you.

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mattk 
Re: Warning to Amiga buyers and sellers
Posted on 16-Feb-2017 15:02:00
#15 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 242
From: England

@m0lebrain

Quote:
I think we need to make it known on other Amiga communities to avoid any a4000 sales from this jerkface


I automatically assumed he would be wanting to sell the machine on. I rather foolishly congratulated him on his purchase, as I thought he got it for a good price. If he wasn't happy with it (assuming all reports of faults were lies) then he could easily have sold it on for a profit.

I was going to post here a warning in case someone saw it up for sale elsewhere. I have lots of photos of the machine from all angles, including the serial number stickers, etc.

But I now think he wanted to keep it all along and was later trying to extort money back from me by pretending to have issues. He even used the return request process to try coerce me into giving him technical support. At an early stage, after I gave him a detailed solution to his problem, he said he would end the return request if I helped him get a CF card of WHDLoad games to work.

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mattk 
Re: Warning to Amiga buyers and sellers
Posted on 16-Feb-2017 15:08:30
#16 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 242
From: England

@Rob

Quote:
Paypal will be linked to his bank account which will be linked to a real address somewhere.


But of course do I have the address I shipped the machine to. Which is partly why I am confused how this can even be happening. Is it a real address or some anonymous drop point? If a real address and real person, how does he think he can so blatantly get away with this?

It is an address on the Isle of Man. Anyone local who can tell me if it is a real address? Google Maps doesn't seem too helpful. I won't mention the building number, but the rest of the address is as follows:

saint runius way
ballagarey road
marown
Isle of Man
im44fg

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mattk 
Re: Warning to Amiga buyers and sellers
Posted on 16-Feb-2017 15:21:02
#17 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 242
From: England

@Signman

Quote:
Blanket refunds even for obvious criminal actions.


It seems they go solely on the shipping information. From what I have read of other's experiences, so long as something (even an empty box) is shipped back to the seller, eBay washes their hands of the whole matter.

This buyer filled the box with junk to make sure even the weight on the shipping label was correct. Looks like he simply emptied out his house of junk that would otherwise be destined for the tip. Just random rubbish like an old UPS battery, Dell keyboard, non-UK power leads, etc. Some stuff I don't want to even touch. But most interestingly, an Amiga 500 power supply unit.

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g01df1sh 
Re: Warning to Amiga buyers and sellers
Posted on 16-Feb-2017 15:37:33
#18 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2009
Posts: 1089
From: UK

@mattk

What a complete arse. if he is an Amiga lover I hope he goes the way of commodore very soon. He is not a true Amigan by doing this to you. I Hope you get it all sorted.

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klx300r 
Re: Warning to Amiga buyers and sellers
Posted on 16-Feb-2017 15:43:57
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2008
Posts: 3171
From: Toronto, Canada

Quote:

Rob wrote:
@klx300r

Paypal will be linked to his bank account which will be linked to a real address somewhere.


ah great point

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c64-2sids, A1000, A1200T-060@50(finally working!),A4000-CSMKIII
! My Master Miggies- Amiga 1000 & AmigaOne X1000 !
mancave-ramblings
X1000 I BELIEVE

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terminills 
Re: Warning to Amiga buyers and sellers
Posted on 16-Feb-2017 16:23:31
#20 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1232
From: Unknown

@mattk

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Archive-Selling/Buyer-return-different-item-returned-two-bags-of-cement-mix/td-p/22262682

http://community.ebay.com/t5/Archive-Shipping-Returns/Buyer-sent-back-wrong-item-in-an-attempt-to-scam-and-I-didn-t/td-p/21347784

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