Poster | Thread |
KimmoK
| |
Re: X5000 question Posted on 23-May-2017 14:08:38
| | [ #41 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 14-Mar-2003 Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland | | |
|
| @NutsAboutAmiga
And let's then see how "Symmetric" it is.
Some kind of multicore support is in the works, hopefully better than WarpUp.lib or PowerUP.lib. _________________ - KimmoK // For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA // // Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer? |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
WolfpackN64
| |
Re: X5000 question Posted on 23-May-2017 14:44:23
| | [ #42 ] |
|
|
|
Regular Member |
Joined: 9-Oct-2016 Posts: 300
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @KimmoK
AROS showed SMP is possible on Amiga(-like- systems) AOS4 can do the same. The only other way I know is CMP (Cöoperative Multi Processing) |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
iggy
| |
Re: X5000 question Posted on 23-May-2017 16:13:20
| | [ #43 ] |
|
|
|
Super Member |
Joined: 20-Oct-2010 Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA | | |
|
| @WolfpackN64
Quote:
The only other way I know is CMP (Cöoperative Multi Processing) |
ASMP isn't limited to a CMP model.
And the SMP solutions being suggested for NG OS' would still benefit from a single core dedicated to ASMP "boxing" of legacy apps that won't function in an SMP environment. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
WolfpackN64
| |
Re: X5000 question Posted on 23-May-2017 16:22:05
| | [ #44 ] |
|
|
|
Regular Member |
Joined: 9-Oct-2016 Posts: 300
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @iggy
CMP is tho only one I know which has been used commercially. The advantage is that multicore support can be the responsibility of the application itself, instead of the OS, which preserves legacy compatibility indeed. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Hypex
| |
Re: X5000 question Posted on 23-May-2017 16:30:39
| | [ #45 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 6-May-2007 Posts: 11209
From: Greensborough, Australia | | |
|
| |
Status: Offline |
|
|
Hypex
| |
Re: X5000 question Posted on 23-May-2017 16:34:10
| | [ #46 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 6-May-2007 Posts: 11209
From: Greensborough, Australia | | |
|
| @WolfpackN64
Quote:
The only other way I know is CMP (Cöoperative Multi Processing) |
LOL. Yes. Let's bring AmigaOS down to the level of Windows 3.1 just to give us SMP.
Unless it's like the CMP in Mac OS9 in which I'm all for it as I didn't notice any difference with that and real mutltitasking and it was very Amiga like. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
WolfpackN64
| |
Re: X5000 question Posted on 23-May-2017 16:39:13
| | [ #47 ] |
|
|
|
Regular Member |
Joined: 9-Oct-2016 Posts: 300
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @Hypex Hint, I'm an old Mac user
The CMP is Mac OS 9 could be enabled in the application that wanted to use it. All in all, the CMP was quite performant, but you didn't want to open up too many applications at once. Which isn't that big of a problem. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Hypex
| |
Re: X5000 question Posted on 24-May-2017 16:07:31
| | [ #48 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 6-May-2007 Posts: 11209
From: Greensborough, Australia | | |
|
| @WolfpackN64
The first Mac I bought was a black Mac OS 9 PPC laptop. The OS and hardware was very Amiga like. It seemed to have multi tasking, at least I couldn't tell the difference. It even had a RAM disk. The CD or floppy drive I could plug in and it auto detected disks.
No wonder Gordon Heywoods (IIRC) advertised in CU Amiga and tried to push Amiga users into buying Macs. I recall it now. Already on PPC. Still developed from a live company. Modern apps. RTG and CD quality audio. Etc. For an Amiga user to convert to a Mac it made sense. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple had an ad at the time encouraging Amiga users to jump to their ship after Commodore went bust.
Except for 95, Windows and PC hardware still looked andacted crap back then. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
WolfpackN64
| |
Re: X5000 question Posted on 24-May-2017 16:12:31
| | [ #49 ] |
|
|
|
Regular Member |
Joined: 9-Oct-2016 Posts: 300
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @Hypex
Mac OS evolved rapidly in those days. I still like it, it's fast, snappy, modular. The old Power Mac G4 I got from my grandfather was upgraded to Mac OS X: Modern, elegant slow and unresponsive...
I slapped OS 9 back on there with the help of the MacOS9Lives community and it's been happily making noise like a jet engine since |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Hypex
| |
Re: X5000 question Posted on 27-May-2017 16:25:16
| | [ #50 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 6-May-2007 Posts: 11209
From: Greensborough, Australia | | |
|
| @WolfpackN64
Quote:
The old Power Mac G4 I got from my grandfather was upgraded to Mac OS X: Modern, elegant slow and unresponsive... |
LOL! I agree. Even "sidegrading" from Tiger to Leopard put a bottleneck on the hardware. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
WolfpackN64
| |
Re: X5000 question Posted on 27-May-2017 16:54:56
| | [ #51 ] |
|
|
|
Regular Member |
Joined: 9-Oct-2016 Posts: 300
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @Hypex
Sometimes I really wonder why Apple ditched their Classic OS. Sure, it was more work to update it, but it had an unique architecture that worked better with their hardware. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Hypex
| |
Re: X5000 question Posted on 27-May-2017 17:15:21
| | [ #52 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 6-May-2007 Posts: 11209
From: Greensborough, Australia | | |
|
| @WolfpackN64
From what I read technical reasons. Because it was a hack that used pointer tagging which had to be removed at System 7 when they used a full 32-bit 68K CPU in the rearly days. Somewhere in the middle of OS 8 they went PowerPC IIRC. After Mac OS 9 there's a story that Apple employed the likes of Carl Sassenrath to implement proper pre-emptive multi tasking in Mac OS and after investigating it determined that it was too far gone and they would need to start from scratch. There's also NeXTSTEP which provided the foundation for Mac OSX being the next migration of a Mac OS.
One thing you don't see mentioned a lot is the Mac DOS format for a path. The OS exposes it in Finder windows. Drive:Path:File. OSX destroyed that and brought in the incompatible /Drive/Path/File format.
These days, using Mac OS 9, would be harder than still using OSX 10.5 like I do. And a problem for both is it runs on PowerPC. Since these days they are writing little endian code only for the most part. Last edited by Hypex on 27-May-2017 at 05:16 PM.
|
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
WolfpackN64
| |
Re: X5000 question Posted on 27-May-2017 17:25:12
| | [ #53 ] |
|
|
|
Regular Member |
Joined: 9-Oct-2016 Posts: 300
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @Hypex
One solution would have been to make the OS bi-endian, and since the Classic Mac OS had the advantage of being very extendable, this should have been possible. I know pre-empetive multitasking is very important to Apple, but the Classic OS' worked fast, even with its CMP way of multiprocessing.
And I absolutely hate what they did to Finder in MacOS X! What's wrong with the spatial metaphor? |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Hypex
| |
Re: X5000 question Posted on 28-May-2017 16:41:44
| | [ #54 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 6-May-2007 Posts: 11209
From: Greensborough, Australia | | |
|
| |
Status: Offline |
|
|
Dandy
| |
Re: X5000 question Posted on 30-May-2017 6:34:11
| | [ #55 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 24-Mar-2003 Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany | | |
|
| |
Status: Offline |
|
|
KimmoK
| |
Re: X5000 question Posted on 30-May-2017 7:15:03
| | [ #56 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 14-Mar-2003 Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland | | |
|
| |
Status: Offline |
|
|
KimmoK
| |
Re: X5000 question Posted on 30-May-2017 7:38:32
| | [ #57 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 14-Mar-2003 Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland | | |
|
| A snip of highend "QNX"-way to do multiprocessing: "BMP offers a viable migration strategy for users who wish to move towards full SMP, but are concerned that their existing code may operate incorrectly in a truly concurrent execution model. Users can port legacy code to the multi-core processor and initially bind it to a single core to ensure correct operation."
I imagine: -BMP would also make it slightly simpler to achieve near-realtime behavior in NG AOS. -Launching legacy apps to run (freely) below 2GB RAM, on core0 should also simplify and lighten the legacy sandbox "overhead". -Perhaps above 2GB area could be handled as memory protected area for NG apps. -Legacy app crash could only crash/trash apps below 2GB. -Still it would be huge amount of extra work, vs forgetting the legacy or just using WinUAE via Wine on NG-AOS. Last edited by KimmoK on 30-May-2017 at 07:39 AM.
_________________ - KimmoK // For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA // // Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer? |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
tlosm
| |
Re: X5000 question Posted on 30-May-2017 8:36:06
| | [ #58 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 28-Jul-2012 Posts: 2746
From: Amiga land | | |
|
| @All in next future i will make a full review on x5000 with true comparison with my G5 quad for made you understand the power of this machine.my test will touch everything from hardware test to real time benchmark where available on the same machine. and same result with same program on the same os. G5 and x5000 are using same linux distro it means i can truly compare. _________________ I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB; MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz; #nomorea-eoninmyhome |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
NutsAboutAmiga
| |
Re: X5000 question Posted on 30-May-2017 13:16:16
| | [ #59 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 9-Jun-2004 Posts: 12817
From: Norway | | |
|
| @Hypex
Quote:
By its very nature it automatically creates a long word that is either big endian or little endian dependant on the target CPU. |
That's exactly what you don't wont, what you won't is same format as file format your loading. If file was created on little endian CPU, you need treat that file as an little endian file. WAV was invented on PC, there is this file format little endian, you can't do anything about that, you can't invent a big endian wav file, because no program will support it.
PowerPC has reverse endian instruction, but C language does not allow the developer to define what is big endian or little endian.
I believe some IBM POWER CPU's can define memory blocks as big or little endian, bypassing the problem.
But the CPU's we have don't have any feature like that.
Anyway the issue is not that big, is mostly loading and saving that is the problem.
I was shocked when found out intuition / screens bitmap was reversed on Radeon 9250. Trying to swap bytes on write or read, using MMU was interesting, low impact when few pixels where changed, high impact when many pixels where changed, as I understand it Radeon HD card is able to fix this on the GPU (shadier code I guess), freeing the CPU from wasting time on converting bitmaps.
https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/aix/library/au-endianc/Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 31-May-2017 at 02:31 AM. Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 30-May-2017 at 01:36 PM. Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 30-May-2017 at 01:29 PM. Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 30-May-2017 at 01:28 PM. Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 30-May-2017 at 01:18 PM. Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 30-May-2017 at 01:18 PM. Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 30-May-2017 at 01:17 PM.
_________________ http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/ Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
RobertJDohnert
| |
Re: X5000 question Posted on 30-May-2017 16:12:14
| | [ #60 ] |
|
|
|
Regular Member |
Joined: 18-Jun-2013 Posts: 199
From: Raleigh NC | | |
|
| @WolfpackN64
MorphOS turns those old Apple boxes into work horses.
_________________ http://www.pc-opensystems.com |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|