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/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  OS 4.1 FE emulation on Windows 10
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sabworks 
OS 4.1 FE emulation on Windows 10
Posted on 4-Apr-2017 8:59:37
#1 ]
New Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2017
Posts: 5
From: Unknown

Hi team, I want to run AmigaOS 4.1 FE under Amiga Forever emulation on my Windows 10 PC. I am not yet lucky enough to own an Amiga. Does anybody know if the PPC version of OS4.1 is the one that I need, or another? Please help, I am a newbie to Amiga and OS4.1. Thanks to all.

Last edited by sabworks on 04-Apr-2017 at 09:00 AM.

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Seiya 
Re: OS 4.1 FE emulation on Windows 10
Posted on 4-Apr-2017 10:34:06
#2 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2006
Posts: 1473
From: Italia

@sabworks

There is no problems to emulate AmigaOS 4.1FE under WinUAE, but PPC emulation is so sloooooow.
to use some utils, comodities, play music and run simple games is ok, but if you intend to use heavy cpu software, games and demos...
I tried Battle of Wesnoth on OS4.1 FE under WinUAE and it is so slooooooooooooooooooooooooow. much less than 10 fps, sometimes 1 fps.

The problem is not WinUAE, is not OS4.
The problem is Windows Qemu that is too slow to emulate PPC.

in this moment i can play tomb raider 2 Mac PPC at maximum framerate on dual-core.
On quad-core i cannot play to Battle of Wesnoth on OS4.1


Last edited by Seiya on 04-Apr-2017 at 10:36 AM.

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TheAMIgaOne 
Re: OS 4.1 FE emulation on Windows 10
Posted on 4-Apr-2017 10:47:20
#3 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Jan-2004
Posts: 776
From: United Kingdom

@Seiya

The problem is not qemu, its the fact PPC cpu are much more complex CPU's than x86 chips

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ErikBauer 
Re: OS 4.1 FE emulation on Windows 10
Posted on 4-Apr-2017 10:52:41
#4 ]
Super Member
Joined: 25-Feb-2004
Posts: 1141
From: Italy

@TheAMIgaOne

Quote:

TheAMIgaOne wrote:
@Seiya

The problem is not qemu, its the fact PPC cpu are much more complex CPU's than x86 chips


How come Dolphin works that well then?
I tried it an I can play Wii games on an I5 without problems


EDIT:
Mispelt Dolphin

Last edited by ErikBauer on 04-Apr-2017 at 11:01 AM.

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Rose 
Re: OS 4.1 FE emulation on Windows 10
Posted on 4-Apr-2017 11:22:20
#5 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 982
From: Unknown

Quote:

ErikBauer wrote:
@TheAMIgaOne

Quote:

TheAMIgaOne wrote:
@Seiya

The problem is not qemu, its the fact PPC cpu are much more complex CPU's than x86 chips


How come Dolphin works that well then?
I tried it an I can play Wii games on an I5 without problems


Not to mention that Cemu can run nicely Wii U version of Zelda: Breath of wild which natively runs on tri core 1.25Ghz PPC.

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Seiya 
Re: OS 4.1 FE emulation on Windows 10
Posted on 4-Apr-2017 11:28:48
#6 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2006
Posts: 1473
From: Italia

but the most poor performances you see on comparison two classic emulators:

Sheepshaver and Qemu

Sheepshaver give excellent performance with just a dual core cpu.
Qemu not give the same performcance with fast quad-core cpu

WinUAE uses a slow core to emulate PPC.

I'm not a coder, but i'd like to add sheepshaver core to WinUAE.

or maybe waiting someone that add OS4.1 support to Sheepshaver :)

Last edited by Seiya on 04-Apr-2017 at 11:40 AM.
Last edited by Seiya on 04-Apr-2017 at 11:31 AM.
Last edited by Seiya on 04-Apr-2017 at 11:30 AM.

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thellier 
Re: OS 4.1 FE emulation on Windows 10
Posted on 4-Apr-2017 12:10:15
#7 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2009
Posts: 263
From: Paris

WinUAE-ppc is not so slow : I am playing MACE 25 fps at 640x480 on an old PC with my latest PatchCompositeTags
(a not yet released version)

Alain Thellier


Last edited by thellier on 04-Apr-2017 at 12:12 PM.
Last edited by thellier on 04-Apr-2017 at 12:11 PM.

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paolone 
Re: OS 4.1 FE emulation on Windows 10
Posted on 4-Apr-2017 12:39:04
#8 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1143
From: Unknown

@TheAMIgaOne

Quote:

TheAMIgaOne wrote:
@Seiya

The problem is not qemu, its the fact PPC cpu are much more complex CPU's than x86 chips


I'm afraid the fact here is just more complex than your ability to understand it....

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Hypex 
Re: OS 4.1 FE emulation on Windows 10
Posted on 4-Apr-2017 15:02:17
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@sabworks

There is only a PPC version of OS4.1 full stop.

You need the Classic version.

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pavlor 
Re: OS 4.1 FE emulation on Windows 10
Posted on 4-Apr-2017 15:11:06
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9578
From: Unknown

@Seiya

OS4 needs MMU emulation, I don´t think SheepShaver supports this.

I got decent speed on 6 years old computer of my brother - comparable to G3 500 MHz. Eg. MAME works good on this setup.

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Hypex 
Re: OS 4.1 FE emulation on Windows 10
Posted on 4-Apr-2017 15:15:25
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@TheAMIgaOne

Quote:
The problem is not qemu, its the fact PPC cpu are much more complex CPU's than x86 chips


Isn't it the opposite? x86 is CISC. PPC is RISC. x86 has instructions of variable length like 68K does. PPC has instructions of one length usually split into code and data words. That should be simpler to emulate or interpret.

But, PPC has 32 registers. x86-64 only has 16. So it can't store CPU registers in real registers like I think it should. Unless it splits it across cores or does fancy stuff like storing it in FPU or MMX registers. It must store it in memory with perhaps some host registers used for high use emulated registers.

It seems to do pretty well emulating a 68K though even on older x86 with only 8 registers. But I think to really emulate a CPU the host CPU needs to be superior. x86-64 is simply not superior in this regard, it needs more registers. Perhaps in a decade or two if there is an x86/64/128/256 with increased register count of 32 or 64.

Last edited by Hypex on 04-Apr-2017 at 03:18 PM.

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TRIPOS 
Re: OS 4.1 FE emulation on Windows 10
Posted on 4-Apr-2017 16:07:36
#12 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1204
From: Unknown

Quote:

TheAMIgaOne wrote:

the fact PPC cpu are much more complex CPU's than x86 chips




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TRIPOS 
Re: OS 4.1 FE emulation on Windows 10
Posted on 4-Apr-2017 16:08:55
#13 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1204
From: Unknown

@paolone

Quote:

paolone wrote:
@TheAMIgaOne

Quote:

TheAMIgaOne wrote:
@Seiya

The problem is not qemu, its the fact PPC cpu are much more complex CPU's than x86 chips


I'm afraid the fact here is just more complex than your ability to understand it....


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pavlor 
Re: OS 4.1 FE emulation on Windows 10
Posted on 4-Apr-2017 16:10:04
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9578
From: Unknown

@Hypex

Quote:
It seems to do pretty well emulating a 68K though even on older x86 with only 8 registers.


Note QEMU PPC and WinUAE 68k JIT deliver nearly the same integer performance.

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gareth_k 
Re: OS 4.1 FE emulation on Windows 10
Posted on 4-Apr-2017 19:22:03
#15 ]
Member
Joined: 11-Sep-2014
Posts: 17
From: Unknown

Has anyone tried Wipeout 2097 or other late 90s PPC games in WinUAE? I'd be interested to see if they run at full speed in emulation, given that they were written with a 233MHz 604e processor in mind.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: OS 4.1 FE emulation on Windows 10
Posted on 5-Apr-2017 5:30:43
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12795
From: Norway

@ErikBauer

Well AmigaOS4.1 games run in higher resolution, more data to push, while x86 is little endian and powerpc is big endian, data stored in memory is High to low byte 04030201, on x86 its low to high byte 01020304, and so the bytes has to be swapped, this for every read and write.

Dolphin is emulators that also emulates modern graphic card, where most graphic card operations happens on GPU, and not on the CPU. This is where WinUAE really sucks only being able to emulate an ancient picasso96 graphic card, that does not have any advanced graphic card functionality..

In addition, MMU emulation is required under AmigaOS4, due more advanced memory management system.

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marko 
Re: OS 4.1 FE emulation on Windows 10
Posted on 5-Apr-2017 5:53:12
#17 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Dec-2007
Posts: 1816
From: Gothenburg, THE front side of Sweden ;), (via Finland), EU

@sabworks

You need the version AmigaOS 4.1 FE for Classic.

_________________
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sabworks 
Re: OS 4.1 FE emulation on Windows 10
Posted on 5-Apr-2017 6:12:50
#18 ]
New Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2017
Posts: 5
From: Unknown

@marko

Thanks marko.

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sabworks 
Re: OS 4.1 FE emulation on Windows 10
Posted on 5-Apr-2017 6:14:01
#19 ]
New Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2017
Posts: 5
From: Unknown

@Hypex

Thanks Hypex.

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ErikBauer 
Re: OS 4.1 FE emulation on Windows 10
Posted on 5-Apr-2017 6:22:12
#20 ]
Super Member
Joined: 25-Feb-2004
Posts: 1141
From: Italy

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@ErikBauer

Well AmigaOS4.1 games run in higher resolution, more data to push, while x86 is little endian and powerpc is big endian, data stored in memory is High to low byte 04030201, on x86 its low to high byte 01020304, and so the bytes has to be swapped, this for every read and write.

Dolphin is emulators that also emulates modern graphic card, where most graphic card operations happens on GPU, and not on the CPU. This is where WinUAE really sucks only being able to emulate an ancient picasso96 graphic card, that does not have any advanced graphic card functionality..

In addition, MMU emulation is required under AmigaOS4, due more advanced memory management system.


Thanx a lot for your clarification, that makes sense

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Check my Amiga gameplays (ITA)!

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