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   /  Amiga OS4 Hardware
      /  PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
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billt 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 18-Apr-2017 2:01:57
#41 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3006
From: Maryland, USA

@iggy

Quote:
And to answer the question about server related chips, like the X64 Xeon family, Power server chips tend to be more complex and expensive than cpus intended for desktop use. With apologies to AMD (related to the many cored Ryzen series), having more than eight threads on a desktop cpu doesn't really serve a useful purpose.


So, the only thing wrong with server chips is that there is too much CPU in them?

Just don't use it all... But i think that's an odd solution to something I don't think is a problem. And we can't use more than 1 core at a time anyway, right, so how is that a problem at all? I personally prefer t4240 over t2080...

There are less expensive CPUs out there, with fewer cores.

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fishy_fis 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 18-Apr-2017 3:34:50
#42 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1697
From: Australia

@iggy

Can't agree with the sentiment that more than 8threads on a desktop CPU serves no purpose.
As someone with a 3 screen setup who runs multiple OSes concurrently on the same system via VMS, who does a bit of 3d rendering and other gfx work plus video work, who uses emulators of ps2, ps3, Wii U, xbox360, etc. I certainly appreciate, and utilize more than 8 threads. In fact I find my 8threaded i7 a little restrictive, hence my upgrading to a 6 core/12 thread i7.

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gregthecanuck 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 18-Apr-2017 9:10:38
#43 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2003
Posts: 741
From: Vancouver, Canada

@thread

OK, sticking to the thread topic... sort-of.... ;)

Short to medium term, Freescale Pxxx and Txxx series.

After that, who knows? Port to x86?

One interesting path to watch is the Apollo core's growth. 68K is back in a really cool 68080 design. More powerful than PPC (per clock, blah blah) "just" needs to mature more and end up in an ASIC. Think what could be done with a super-fast 68K chip (1GHz +). This is years away but something to think about.

Last edited by gregthecanuck on 20-Apr-2017 at 11:46 AM.

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 18-Apr-2017 10:59:05
#44 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3264
From: Unknown

@thread

One thing to consider: A-eon (and Acube) is the only desktop PowerPC producer in the world. And the A-eon motherboard runs linux fine.

Interesting...

Last edited by AmigaBlitter on 18-Apr-2017 at 11:02 AM.

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tlosm 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 19-Apr-2017 9:29:47
#45 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 1990
From: Amiga land

@ppcamiga1

Bigendian is going in the dead zone... Future is again ppc biendian like are power8 and power9
And for sure have a ppc little endian will open to many more opportunities

Last edited by tlosm on 19-Apr-2017 at 09:31 AM.

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tlosm 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 19-Apr-2017 9:48:06
#46 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 1990
From: Amiga land

@fishy_fis

Multi thread is used today because the today Technology cant gave on one thread good performances. For sure one thread core is better then multi ... Expecially in emulation where if you need to emulate multi thread system all the threads have to sync with first one usually slower because emulate all the base system ... mmtcg docet.

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PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
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iggy 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 19-Apr-2017 14:33:42
#47 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1014
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@fishy_fis

Quote:
I find my 8threaded i7 a little restrictive


Do you really think the average user is going to do something that intense?

Although, if thread count was an issue for others, there's the much less expensive Ryzen 5 1600.

Or you could get really weird and do a dual Xeon system.

Still, for most users, eight threads should be sufficient.

BUT, I am trying to figure out how to obtain a Ryzen 7 1800X(eight core, sixteen threads) for a MorphOS developer to speed up his compile times, so I DO understand what you are getting at.

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 20-Apr-2017 7:45:31
#48 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3264
From: Unknown

I hope A-eon sells many tabor and x5000 units so that it can generate more interest in PPC for desktop

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tlosm 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 20-Apr-2017 8:56:04
#49 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 1990
From: Amiga land

@AmigaBlitter


Im sure this will be the lastest ppc machine that we will see for amigaos

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A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; A4k.
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
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BigD 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 20-Apr-2017 9:56:49
#50 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 3744
From: UK

@tlosm

Quote:

tlosm wrote:
@AmigaBlitter


Im sure this will be the lastest ppc machine that we will see for amigaos


Of course they're the 'latest' as the X5000 has just been released and the Tabor/X1222 is not far away. If you mean 'last' machines then there is a PPC laptop being crowdfunded by ACube so no that would also make a great AmigaOS candidate.

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 20-Apr-2017 11:25:08
#51 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3264
From: Unknown

@tlosm

Did you mean the "last" or the latest?

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Rob 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 20-Apr-2017 13:07:56
#52 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5470
From: S.Wales

@BigD

Quote:
PPC laptop being crowdfunded by ACube


Acube said they'd build the laptop if the project gets off the ground. I highly doubt this project will get off the ground.

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billt 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 20-Apr-2017 13:20:02
#53 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3006
From: Maryland, USA

@iggy

Quote:
Still, for most users, eight threads should be sufficient.


That's right, and 640KB of memory should be enough for anybody. There will never be a legitimate typical user need for more of either, right?

Remember, it's become quite dificult to keep increasing clock speeds, and so cpus and software design is becoming more parallel in order to continue increasing performance for more advanced games, imagery, game AI, physics, VR, etc. will continue to progress.

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billt 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 20-Apr-2017 13:23:47
#54 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3006
From: Maryland, USA

@BigD

Quote:
is a PPC laptop being crowdfunded by ACube


Its not crowdfunded by Acube. It is crowdfunded by the Open PPC Notebook project. Acube is a contractor to this organization. I think its a great contractor to see there, but it is not their project to fund, it is for thrm to get paid to do their role.

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iggy 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 20-Apr-2017 13:35:04
#55 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1014
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@billt

BINGO! This project is NOT Acube's.
Currently they have agreed to create the schematics for it if we pay them.

A funding campaign for that should be starting on April 30th, and I will be contributing to that.

The form factor and case has been decided on, as has the initial component list.

Further, we WILL push this as far as we can, with the goal of actually producing it.

AND, for all of you that have posted negative comments on this (and for that matter my own earlier project)....

Screw up guys, we aim to get this done.

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tlosm 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 20-Apr-2017 13:40:17
#56 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 1990
From: Amiga land

@AmigaBlitter

last . i dont thing after x5000 and 1222 we will see more ppc mobo, only ibm can change this if will release again a desktop ppc hw.

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A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; A4k.
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
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tlosm 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 20-Apr-2017 13:42:31
#57 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 1990
From: Amiga land

@iggy

i sow with really difficult e6500 in a laptop. it is a full size cpu and need a really good air or water coolers system. is ok for a desktop or for be a server but laptop i dont think so.

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I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; A4k.
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
AmigaOne X5000 16GB,SSD,SSHD, R7 250 2GB

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clusteruk 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 20-Apr-2017 13:46:11
#58 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Nov-2008
Posts: 1379
From: Marston Moretaine, England

@thread

Why does the Amiga community have to follow PPC. As a classic Amiga hardware fan I personally have no interest in them at all and I only run 68k based systems up to 060 which can also be emulated beautifully with software like UAE or with hardware emulation systems like the Vampire. As for the future of the Amiga, PPC systems are a very small part of the overall community and they are very expensive and seriously slow. Yes I know Tabor is a 399 motherboard but Raspberry Pi and the like are probably as powerful or more and only 25-100 and if Hyperion put OS4.5 on the latest Pi, Ebon Upton would make it a recommended Raspberry Pi OS as he is a big Amiga fan. I know this because he told me during discussions on this a while back after they first launched the Pi and discussions following this time. Amiga could transition to x86/Arm relatively easily as a lot of the work is already done, 68k and PPC code could be ported where code is available or emulated where not.

The reality is, vested interests and personality is getting in the way, if the Amiga company was still developing hardware we would all be on x86 and running AMD or NVidia GPU's like my day machines and have a nice niche market, hell we may even get Newtek back.

Its a shame I do not have an Amiga alternative for my general work computer like there is a Mac or Linux alternative. To be fair, Aros with soon to be available SMP could be my day system if Virtual Box was available for it as that is what I use a lot in my day job.

Right now, people are fed up with Windows spying on them and an Amiga system on modern hardware at the right price would be a nice alternative especially with the world crying out for retro.

Now I will hide

Steve

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billt 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 20-Apr-2017 13:58:28
#59 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3006
From: Maryland, USA

@tlosm

Quote:
it is a full size cpu and need a really good air or water coolers system. is ok for a desktop or for be a server but laptop i dont think so.


What reason do you have to think that? Estimated 15 watts power isnt bad for a laptop... My PC laptops take far more power for cpu, though more recent x64 chips are improving as well. ai believe the chassis of interest will handle that wuite easily, and my own preference would be for big brother t4240, and believe that would also be ok in chassis. t2080 is easy there...

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billt 
Re: PPC 5020, 5040... OS4.1, 4.2 ... and after?
Posted on 20-Apr-2017 14:04:16
#60 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3006
From: Maryland, USA

@clusteruk

Quote:

@thread

Why does the Amiga community have to follow PPC


While I would prefer to see a shift to x86 or arm64 for future roadmap, its not my choice and we are stuck with that. I want modern, highg end capability, 68k doesnt offer that. Emulation has too many limitations. Perhaps if emulation was more qemu with pci oassthrough and virtio capability we could reduce limitations. Was sad that Amithlon vanished...

So long as AmigaOS is tied to PPC, then I will be interested in most advanced we can do for that.

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