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/  Forum Index
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      /  Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
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PosterThread
iggy 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 22-Apr-2017 21:03:00
#61 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@number6

Of course Hyperion is required to defend the trademark, what its not required to do is act in Amiga Inc.'s interest.
Your both interpreting this incorrectly.
Should Amiga Inc fail to defend the property, then registering it makes perfect sense as a defense.

Obviously, neither of you has spent much time with lawyers, or dealt significantly with issues involving either business or property issues.
I can assure you, I have.

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ne_one 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 25-Apr-2017 20:19:47
#62 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 731
From: Unknown

@iggy

Quote:
Of course Hyperion is required to defend the trademark, what its not required to do is act in Amiga Inc.'s interest.


That's my interpretation as well... completely different requirements.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 25-Apr-2017 21:39:00
#63 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 814
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

Quote:

TRIPOS wrote:
@cgutjahr

Quote:
English version of the news item:

http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2017-04-00033-EN.html


Wow, haven't seen this much trade mark intrigue action since Hyperion started to sell Workbench products in all kinds of purpose direct infringements with Cloanto half a year ago!

Some observations:

1) Cloanto was first, with its 2-jan-2017 filing (vs. the 8-feb-2017 filings of Hyperion).

2) The Hyperion filings may very well be infringing on Cloantos. Even though Hyperion applies for one-word marks (no spaces) like "amigaos" and "amigaone", they do use the Cloanto filed mark (Amiga) in their 5 first characters, and they do cover the very same areas, i.e. "operating systems" and "computer hardware". It would also be a trivial task to show the obvious similarities the Hyperion product "amigaos" has with Cloanto's various operating system products they acquired from Amiga Inc and their entire portfolio of copyrighted operating system revisions from Commodore days (reaching back to version 1.0 or earlier) which Cloanto have had on the market for two decades now, and still have.

It would be like trying to register a SonyTV trade mark, for use in the "television" scope.

3) An odd thing is that the Hyperion filings are for "Service Marks", not Trade Marks. A service mark is used in the United States and several other countries to identify a service rather than a [physical] product. A service is per definition something intangible, un-storable; a kind of product that is literally consumed at the very same time it is produced, like getting a haircut, having a mail delivery, or some music streaming. Service Marks can not be slapped on to any products (since services are intangible unlike physical products), their use is instead like on the store front of the barber shop, on the uniform of the mail man, or on the web site of the music streaming service. This is particularly peculiar for the "amigaone" filing, IMHO. And: "Before it is registered, it is common practice (with some legal standing) to use the service mark symbol ℠ (a superscript SM)." Just out of curiosity: has anyone seen Hyperion been using "AmigaOS ℠" in their marketing a single time?


@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote:
I suggest AROS pick up the Amiga rainbow checkmark


The rainbow checkmark has been used in various kickstart versions during the last 27 years (and still is), and few marks are as recognizable and intimately connected to the Amiga mark as that checkmark.



Cloanto is still selling these products (since two decades this year), of which they are also the exclusive owner. My guess is that it would be completely impossible for anyone to register that mark for the scope of a competing OS, since it would be so easily opposed by Cloanto. The only one who could register that mark today would IMHO be Cloanto.



And now AeonKit wants a piece of the pie:

https://www.companysearchesmadesimple.com/company/uk/10732120/amiga-technology-ltd/

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iggy 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 25-Apr-2017 21:52:56
#64 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@ne_one

Quote:
That's my interpretation as well... completely different requirements.


Seems obvious, doesn't it?
If you are a legitimate licensee of a trademark, you are going to consider it an obligation to protect that asset from dilution by unauthorized entities.

But how would you act if the company that granted you that license was no longer protecting that asset from being used? You'd try to gain control of that asset in order to protect it and retain its utility.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 25-Apr-2017 22:03:09
#65 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 814
From: Unknown

@iggy

I think it's funny how some people and some companies for two decades has believed that trademarks are more important than the actual products they're supposed to push!



At least there are some others who has been working on creating high quality alternatives that are actually worth using...

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TRIPOS 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 25-Apr-2017 22:03:19
#66 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 814
From: Unknown

@iggy

I think it's funny how some people and some companies for two decades has believed that trademarks are more important than the actual products they're supposed to push!



At least there are some others who has been working on creating high quality alternatives that are actually worth using...

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iggy 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 25-Apr-2017 22:13:20
#67 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@TRIPOS

I know, I don't really care about the trademarks myself!
And the Amiga name is cursed anyway!

You all DO know that I'm a MorphOS advocate, right?

And while I poke fun at the Vampire fanatics, I already own FPGA hardware and look forward to buying more in the future.

Frankly, I figured McBill was going to sit on the Amiga trademark indefinitely.

Now, maybe Aeon, AmigaKit, Hyperion and Cloanto will all get their collective acts together and figure out how to market under the Amiga trademark again.

But since I'm already using an OS with a roadmap moving it to a "living" ISA, I'm not sure I really give a ____.

I think the only reason I'm celebrating is that at least the least productive entity in the community appears to be bowing out.

Last edited by iggy on 25-Apr-2017 at 10:14 PM.

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ne_one 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 26-Apr-2017 16:26:35
#68 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 731
From: Unknown

@iggy

Quote:

I think the only reason I'm celebrating is that at least the least productive entity in the community appears to be bowing out.


And that in itself is reason to celebrate.

Good riddance.

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number6 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 8-May-2017 22:27:03
#69 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9796
From: In the village

@thread

According to the following trademark links from Justia, which offer more information than Trademarkia etal:

Application for AmigaOS

Application for BoingBall

Application for AmigaOne

Status updates on all 3 show:

Quote:
NOTIFICATION OF NON-FINAL ACTION E-MAILED


According to:

Trademark Bank

Trademarkia

additional google links

Basically from what I read:

Quote:
If you received this notice, your application has been initially refused.


More info available if you read the links.

If I am in error about this, I would appreciate a correction.

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

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TRIPOS 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 8-May-2017 23:51:24
#70 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 814
From: Unknown

@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote:
@thread

According to the following trademark links from Justia...

Application for AmigaOS

Application for BoingBall

Application for AmigaOne

...has been initially refused.


And Cloanto's application for the Amiga trademark for the following Goods and Services...

Computer game programs; Computer game software downloadable from a global computer network; Computer hardware; Computer hardware and computer peripherals; Computer operating programs; Computer operating software; Computer operating systems; Computer programs for video and computer games; Computer software for emulating computer hardware, emulating computer operating systems on personal computers and mobile devices and instructional user guides sold as a unit; Computer software for emulating computer hardware, emulating computer operating systems on personal computers and mobile devices that may be downloaded from a global computer network; Computer software for emulating computer hardware, emulating computer operating systems on personal computers and mobile devices; Computer software platforms for emulating computer hardware and computer operating systems; Computer software, namely, game engine software for video game development and operation; Computer software for emulating computer hardware and computer operating systems that may be downloaded from a global computer network; Digital media, namely, pre-recorded video cassettes, digital video discs, digital versatile discs, downloadable audio and video recordings, DVDs, and high definition digital discs featuring software, games, music, videos, text, ebooks; Downloadable computer game software via a global computer network and wireless devices

...is Status 681 - Publication/Issue Review Complete

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number6 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 9-May-2017 0:00:25
#71 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9796
From: In the village

@TRIPOS

Keep in mind that the opposition date for the Cloanto application is also tomorrow and extensions can be filed.

#6

_________________
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*Secrecy has served us so well*

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TRIPOS 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 9-May-2017 1:14:35
#72 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 814
From: Unknown

@number6

I'm not the slightest worried about opposition. Cloanto's case is rock solid. They have been selling these product for literally 20 years, they now even own the copyrights of the products and whatever IP (not copies, not wannabes), and they are developing them.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 9-May-2017 1:15:37
#73 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 814
From: Unknown

@number6

I'm not the slightest worried about opposition. Cloanto's case is rock solid. They have been selling these product for literally 20 years, they now even own the copyrights of the products and whatever IP (not copies, not wannabes), and they are developing them.

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gregthecanuck 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 9-May-2017 8:11:29
#74 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2003
Posts: 772
From: Vancouver, Canada

@TRIPOS

This is quite interesting. I think there may be things happening behind the scenes and this is a glimpse?

Last edited by gregthecanuck on 09-May-2017 at 08:12 AM.

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number6 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 9-May-2017 17:12:10
#75 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9796
From: In the village

@number6

Additional info re:
post #69

Since I did not mention the reason/s for refusal of the Hyperion trademark applications, the following should illustrate those points exceptionally clearly:

AmigaOS

BoingBall

AmigaOne

#6

_________________
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*Secrecy has served us so well*

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TRIPOS 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 11-May-2017 8:35:41
#76 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 814
From: Unknown

@gregthecanuck

Quote:

gregthecanuck wrote:
@TRIPOS

This is quite interesting. I think there may be things happening behind the scenes and this is a glimpse?



You think? (link)

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TRIPOS 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 11-May-2017 8:36:09
#77 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 814
From: Unknown

@number6

Thanks for all the info, much appreciated.

Keep us posted!

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Raffaele 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 11-May-2017 10:37:30
#78 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2005
Posts: 1782
From: Naples, Italy

@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote:
@number6

Additional info re:
post #69

Since I did not mention the reason/s for refusal of the Hyperion trademark applications, the following should illustrate those points exceptionally clearly:

AmigaOS

BoingBall

AmigaOne

#6


LoL How I wish Apple had encountered this overzealant USTPO officer when they applied their Trademark request in the eighties. They had saw their request rejected as the name "Apple" was "confusingly similar" to other existing marks.

Interesting that the officer lady quotes internet as source for the US costumers to inform themselves so the Amiga mark is causing confusion with other products, while if you just try google Amiga, the first answer by the engine is right the computer with that name.

But the most important thing is that any good lawyer could made this USTPO refusal letter declared invalid by any Federal Court just by pointing the fact that letter claims Amiga as not english word and requiring translation:

Quote:

TRANSLATION REQUIREMENT



Applicant must submit an English translation of all foreign wording in the mark. 37 C.F.R. §§2.32(a)(9), 2.61(b); see TMEP §809. In the present case, the wording “AMIGA” requires translation.



The following translation statement is suggested:



The English translation of the word “AMIGA” in the mark is “FRIEND”


As long as correct translation of Amiga is "a Friend of female sex" as the ending in "A" in spanish is the mark for the feminine gender, the fact the officer has based her refusal on wrong translation is literally the siege ram argument that any good layer with minimal skills in USA can use to convince any US judge declaring invalid this refusal at the speed of light...

Bad translations are one of the main reason of making documents invalid in any country.

Silly USTPO officers...

Is there somewhere who can make a whistle to Hyperion in order to inform them?

Oh well, no necessary as Ben Hermans is a lawyer himself...

[EDIT]

Also interesting that the USTPO officer is not politically correct as she points a relevant number of activities that have the name Amiga in their name but she does not cite the fact that the name Amiga could cause confusion for the existing lesbian communities.

For example with a simple google search I found this:

East-Los-Angeles-Latina-Bisexual-Lesbian-Amigas-Meetup Montebello (CA).

As long as Amiga name regarding computers is not a cause of confusion for LGBT communities, and as long as USTPO omitted this meaning in her refusal letter, any lawyer can argue, demonstrate, and win that Amiga term does not cause misinterpretation with any other activity whenever commercial, cultural or recreational.

At this point I think that Ultralol emoticon is strongly required to be implemented on our site, as simply LoL icon covers no laughing silly situations like this one... :rotfl:

Last edited by Raffaele on 11-May-2017 at 11:03 AM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 11-May-2017 at 10:56 AM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 11-May-2017 at 10:48 AM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 11-May-2017 at 10:40 AM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 11-May-2017 at 10:38 AM.

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wawa 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 11-May-2017 10:53:12
#79 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5714
From: Unknown

@number6

hyperion doesnt seem to employ very competent lawyers, if they dont date and dont sign their letters, and do not notice having them refused upon such an oversight. or what are the above links suppose to tell me?

Last edited by wawa on 11-May-2017 at 10:54 AM.
Last edited by wawa on 11-May-2017 at 10:53 AM.

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Raffaele 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 11-May-2017 11:01:08
#80 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2005
Posts: 1782
From: Naples, Italy

@wawa

Yeah sure wawa you are right.

This make perhaps me wonder if they just sent certified e-mail letters so lawyers simply assumed that date of e-mail is mandatory and legally valid?

For example in Italy with P.E.C. (Certified Electronic Mail) whenever there are no specifications, the date of E-Mail is to be assumed as date of the document you sent.

Last edited by Raffaele on 11-May-2017 at 11:02 AM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 11-May-2017 at 11:01 AM.

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