Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
5647 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
» Home
» Features
» News
» Forums
» Classifieds
» Links
» Downloads
Extras
» OS4 Zone
» IRC Network
» AmigaWorld Radio
» Newsfeed
» Top Members
» Amiga Dealers
Information
» About Us
» FAQs
» Advertise
» Polls
» Terms of Service
» Search

IRC Channel
Server: irc.amigaworld.net
Channel: #Amigaworld
Channel Policy and Guidelines

(Uses JAVA Applet and Port 1024)
Visit the Chatroom Website

Who's Online
 59 guest(s) on-line.
 0 member(s) on-line.



You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 Signal:  13 mins ago
 BCP:  16 mins ago
 Raffaele:  16 mins ago
 DruggedBunny:  30 mins ago
 tommywright:  31 mins ago
 Drewlio77:  31 mins ago
 Birbo:  36 mins ago
 BigD:  39 mins ago
 Jasper:  40 mins ago
 zipper:  41 mins ago

/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga News & Events
      /  Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Register To Post

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 Next Page )
PosterThread
OlafS25 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 14-May-2017 11:48:07
#81 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5098
From: Unknown

@eliyahu

I hate the words "trolls" and "trolling" in the meantime

Tripos has a different view if 4.X is now based on the "commodore 3.1 sources" and if the "reworked sources are same" or not. Is that really important for anyone? Who cares... People use the compiled binaries not the sources, if they are 100% identical to the binaries from 1994 is that really important? There are endless discussions about that on different forums (weird to me)

You make it easy to users you call trolls to do it, they must only throw the bone and you immediately jump on them. Then someone like Chris strikes and call the others not real and clones and immediately there is a emotional debate that lasts pages. I saw that lots of time in recent years, a little like in kindergarden just that everybody here is too old for that.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 14-May-2017 at 11:56 AM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 14-May-2017 11:52:51
#82 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8486
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:
and MorphOS/AROS (including my favorite 68k branch) has to left out.


68k branch is a piece of past...

Quote:
then better call it os4world or amigaoneworld and not amigaworld


This place is welcoming to all flavours, not only the official one. However, people like TMHGM are scourge of all boards.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
OlafS25 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 14-May-2017 11:58:05
#83 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5098
From: Unknown

@pavlor

68k past

Is it?

I do not think so

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
olsen 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 14-May-2017 11:59:24
#84 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 15-Aug-2004
Posts: 691
From: Germany

@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote:
@olsen

I thoroughly enjoyed your post. Thank you for posting.

I do not wish to dismiss any issue you raised, but personally I am curious how you feel strictly from a developer standpoint, fully realizing you can only speak for yourself...

Speaking for myself, I care about the work which I do, and caring comes with a cost. You need to find the time to put in the work, and even if you do, more is always needed To a certain degree this is driven by my own curiousity and my penchant for building complex things, but it is getting increasingly difficult to find additional validation. Payment is always welcome, but you still need to make a product worth paying for, and somebody willing to spend on it. The more the Amiga market fragments, the harder it gets to sell something.

If you do contract work, putting in the time and effort to make a maintenance release of AmigaOS 3.1, my experience so far has been less inspiring, to say the least. One can criticize the effort for as being too little too late, with too little polishing and testing being applied. This is always going to be valid criticism. The thing is, I'm always going to face this kind of criticism with the professional attitude that it will eventually result in an improved product.

What goes beyond that, however, aimed at the publisher or the infamous guy who dared to tinker with the operating system is not helping.

From my experience, software which is useful and needed will have to be modified and adapted over time. If the negative feedback tends to be on the level of the insult rather than the bug report, then at some point we all will have to wait for the open source release, and that may take a lot more time than we might expect. I used to joke that when the Amiga system time base rolls over and becomes a negative number in 2046 somebody just might come knocking on my door and ask for a bug fix. Could be that the Amiga operating system will not have been open sourced by then, and people will have stopped caring for, or about it.

Quote:
Quote:
It hurts me personally, because by now I am painfully aware of how few people are left who are technically able or willing to learn how to make Amiga software. I know a thing or two about that subject. There used to be so many more around who were much more knowledgeable than I may be today.


My personal knowledge gathered from what can only be called opinion of many principals is that most developers departed during the 2007-2009 period of the lawsuit. Secondarily more left during several years of the CUSA affair (for lack of a better term).

In both cases the exodus of developers stemmed from what I believe to be concerns over an uncertain future due to legal issues pertaining to ownership (and all that entails) of the IP.

Is it unfair for me to think that a declining state of affairs can not be reversed until such time as these matters are settled to the satisfaction of all parties concerned?

#6

I disagree. The discussions which I have seen that circle around the Amiga operating system and its possible futures seem to have taken a life on their own. It is now much easier to speculate about what may explain the current predicament, and to speculate on how it may be resolved, than to consider what exactly is still possible today.

This is my pessimistic streak getting the better of me, I suppose

Settling all matters to the satisfaction of all parties is so difficult that the alternative of picking a subset of these matters and making a choice to deal with them looks so much more likely to succeed to me. It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness (or find an agreeable compromise for everybody involved who accidentally contributed to the lights to dim).

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
OlafS25 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 14-May-2017 12:00:10
#85 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5098
From: Unknown

@pavlor

the reactions he creates make it very easy for TMHG

he throws the bone, you and others jump and bell

he throws the bone...

and so on

I saw that lots of times in recent years... even dogs should learn

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
iggy 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 14-May-2017 13:29:59
#86 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@OlafS25

Siding with you and Wawa here, "safe" is just so much BS.
"Isolated from reality" might be a better way to put it.

I want input from ALL areas of our community, not just one part (even when we don't agree).
This is AmigaWorld, not OS4World.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
TRIPOS 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 14-May-2017 13:44:42
#87 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 839
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@TRIPOS

Quote:
Workbench 3.X (or "3.10") is essentially 3.9, so...


...it´s all "Boing Ball Branch".


Obviously not. The "Boing Ball Branch" are the OS's built using the new sources as a foundation, marketed using a Boing Ball, published by a different entity than the IP owner (Cloanto).

The "Checkmark Branch" (1.3, 2.1, 3.1) is basically Commodore's original binaries, with a handful necessary updates carefully applied to them but still (probably) subtle enough to be accepted by preservationists and retro purists.

But in a way "it's all Boing Ball Branch" in the sense that the Boing Ball Branch is directly based on Cloanto's copyrighted source code, thus making Cloanto a stakeholder in the Boing Ball Branch as well...


Quote:
Quote:
The two Workbench branches are two different products from two different producers.


Well, both Hyperion and Cloanto sell plain OS3.1 (I don´t mean 3.X fork by Cloanto or recent 3.1 update by Hyperion), hard to see these as two different products...


Whether Hyperion also sells "Checkmark Branch" OS's today is not the point, not at all. The point is that they sell a Workbench 3.1 as a parallel product to the original Workbench 3.1 from Commodore/Cloanto, that should really (had any logic been applied) have been called "AmigaOS 3.2".

As a side note, this product has really no real reason to exist. Preservationists and retro purists looks for the real 3.1 (or 2.1 or 1.3), while 68k enthusiasts that wants a 68k OS further developed than 3.1 looks for Workbench 3.X (or some e-bay/NOS 3.9) or indeed AROS 68k. Hyperion of course knew this. The reason Hyperion released this parallel fork, using the Workbench name (a registered trademark(!) of Cloanto) and using the 3.1 version number, can only be perceived as foul to the core, most certainly a part of yet another lawsuit process. But again, that's is a different matter. The point here is that two different products (both in features and origin), from two different publishers are sold at the same time in parallel, using the same product name and the same version number. And they are not the same at all. Hence the "Checkmark Branch" Workbench 3.1 and the "Boing Ball Branch" Workbench 3.1. Hope you understand better now!

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
TRIPOS 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 14-May-2017 13:44:53
#88 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 839
From: Unknown

@Chris_Y

Quote:

Chris_Y wrote:
@TRIPOS

Quote:
No it doesn't. You may want to read the explanation "Black lines = Timeline" again. The explanation even has a graphical symbol attached to the left of it, to really illustrate how the black lines that shows the timeline looks, just to avoid any confusion...


Yes, timeline linked down between the OS releases and then forked off. It isn't clear, at best it's misleading nonsense and at worst it's libellous.

It certainly looks to me that AROS, MorphOS and OS4 are direct descendants of Commodore's source code, forked at different times, and a different variation of Workbench plus OS4 have inherited some cleaned up version of Commodore's code.

AROS and MorphOS shouldn't even be on that page, since they don't use any of Commodore's code according to the owners. By putting them there you are suggesting they have - legally or otherwise - used AmigaOS 3.1 as their base.

I'd argue that whether Commodore's OS3.1 code base has been cleaned up or not is irrelevant too, since functionally it's identical.

Again, I strongly suggest you modify your graphic so it represents actual verifiable facts instead of some alternate reality.

I will not be commenting further.




OK, once again, the black lines illustrates order of appearance, timestamps on a timeline, leading to a summary ("TODAY") of the current situation in which several options exists in parallel, from several publishers. I even made a picture of a black line next to the "Black lines = Timeline" explanation, just in case not everyone knows what a black line looks like, or how to interpret black lines in the graphics. Frankly, I don't know how to explain this further.



The red lines could be seen as representing code. And the Checkmark Branch column.

Your inability to interpret the chart does not make it erroneous. It's all factual and verifiable.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
TRIPOS 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 14-May-2017 13:45:09
#89 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 839
From: Unknown

@wawa

Quote:

wawa wrote:
@olsen

i dont think malice can here be pinpointed or even suspected as a reason for failure.


I'd say that some key people's greed and hubris, that has been completely unsuitable for a situation where no real market has existed, is largely the explanation. That has lead to a certain protectionism (when the very opposite was required) where selection of hardware platform and hardware partners was seen as a "dongle", where the OS was locked away from smart minded developers, where those developers who were included "in the club" first was blinded by the shining light from the false hollywood studio facade of a "big company" that was set up, and then simply left when payments failed, etc. Is this malice or incompetence? There are some clear cases of malice though that lead to a community split when the opposite would have been better (the "classic" fans, the MorphOS fans, the AROS fans never had any troubles with each other), and maybe the lawsuits became to much for some over time, including the carefully plotted robbery of OS4 from Amiga Inc. Not everyone wants to be associated with that kind of people/company. No-one has done so much to damage the Amiga as Hyperion has.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
TRIPOS 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 14-May-2017 13:46:44
#90 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 839
From: Unknown

@BoingBear

Quote:

BoingBear wrote:

olsen, a perceived former or current Amiga programmer


Olsen is the creator of the foundation in the "Boing Ball Branch" and also the "Hyperion Workbench 3.1 update"...

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
TRIPOS 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 14-May-2017 13:46:57
#91 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 839
From: Unknown

@olsen

Quote:

olsen wrote:
@eliyahu

Well, one more thing: what hurts me most, personally, is the talk about an Amiga community which could accomplish so much if only it had access to the real Amiga operating system source code. It hurts me personally, because by now I am painfully aware of how few people are left who are technically able or willing to learn how to make Amiga software. I know a thing or two about that subject. There used to be so many more around who were much more knowledgeable than I may be today. Where are they now? Who is going to assume the same responsibilities?

Talking about the operating system without also considering how to care for it, and who could be doing it, neglects answering the more painful questions.


Well, reading that, and also your post on amiga.org ("What did the availability of the source code make possible?"), would it be correct to describe you as an advocate of Open Sourcing the 3.1 source code?

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
olsen 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 14-May-2017 17:21:41
#92 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 15-Aug-2004
Posts: 691
From: Germany

@number6

Quote:

Quote:
In the mean time the other portions of the portfolio probably are still making money, so there is no immediate need to drop the Amiga assets. Because these investments are still making money,


If you read the above thread you'll see that Kouri was virtually bankrupt.


This is beyond my area of expertise. Isn't it also possible that while the portfolio was still being actively managed, the whole web held together, and it only came apart when Mr. Kouri was no longer around, and all accounts had to be settled?

I have seen complex software projects appear to be sound while one single person was expending a lot of work on keeping them operational, with everything coming apart when external forces demanded the project to be wrapped up. Some work only survives while in progress, and some people are much better at managing such a work in progress than in making choices to consolidate and move on instead.

Quote:
Quote:
it took more than 40 attorneys from the Reed Smith six years to untangle tens of millions of dollars in debt owed by his estate, according to court papers filed by Reed Smith lawyers.


If you're curious about how much money has been recovered, a simple google search will suffice for both property and artwork:

Search parameter


Ouch Interesting to see that the art assets were sold. I would have expected the estate to hold onto them, given how they factor as long term investments in today's market. Possibly, the estate really needed the money quickly in order to settle the bills.

Quote:
I'll repeat this part of your quote:

Quote:
so there is no immediate need to drop the Amiga assets.


There might be a need if it is a prerequisite to closing the estate and you weigh the amounts of money involved from the other assets with the perceived value of the Amiga assets.

#6

That is exactly the conclusion I would draw.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 14-May-2017 17:29:40
#93 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8486
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

It seems you really don´t know on what sources are based V44/45 improvements in Cloanto´s Workbench...

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 14-May-2017 17:31:41
#94 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8486
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:
68k past


I don´t see any big development of OS3.x. Hyperion´s and Cloanto´s updates are minuscule.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 14-May-2017 17:32:52
#95 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8486
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

Quote:
No-one has done so much to damage the Amiga as Hyperion has.


Commodore? Escom? Gateway 2000?

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
OlafS25 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 14-May-2017 18:23:06
#96 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5098
From: Unknown

@pavlor

I do not talk about 3.X regarding Hyperion or Cloanto

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
number6 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 14-May-2017 19:27:23
#97 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9890
From: In the village

@olsen

Quote:
This is my pessimistic streak getting the better of me, I suppose


By the same token my:

Quote:
settled to the satisfaction of all parties concerned


Was my optimistic streak getting the better of me. heh.

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
number6 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 14-May-2017 19:45:48
#98 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9890
From: In the village

@olsen

Quote:
Isn't it also possible that while the portfolio was still being actively managed, the whole web held together, and it only came apart when Mr. Kouri was no longer around, and all accounts had to be settled?


Yes, but he was losing money all along from the 90's to the point where Reed Smith took over to close his estate.
Oddly there is more detail written about the man here on AW than on his wiki page, but one of the articles I linked to might offer the most insight.

Quote:
The bubble burst, but Kouri still lived like a multimillionaire, collecting modern art and spending time in one of his many homes, from a Soho loft to a Swiss chalet, according to court papers.


One has to adapt to changing times...

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
resle 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 15-May-2017 2:36:33
#99 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2005
Posts: 483
From: shanghai

Quote:

TRIPOS wrote:

I'd say that some key people's greed and hubris (...) There are some clear cases of malice that lead to a community split (...) including the carefully plotted robbery of OS4 from Amiga Inc. Not everyone wants to be associated with that kind of people/company.


Continuing from Tripos' comments - this is why every time someone at Hyperion comes out with an interview, or some bit of news or whatever - a few people like him or me gets all worked up.


Can you challenge any of the following statements?


- Hyperion is a hollow shell. The company doesn't have any business or business model

- If they had any business, it was all about adding some bits of functionality to AmigaOS and sell it in incremental upgrades. That business hasn't existed at all for 10 years (or 5 if you want to consider 4.1 Final Edition)

- Their spokeperson and "director" was a questionable character whose contribution to Amiga has been all about bragging, threatening, and finally leave the company on the verge of a "technical" bankruptcy, then allegedly stepping back

- All the real work has been done by the last few standing Amiga "pro" developers some of which are (even in Hyperion's own words) "working on a voluntary basis"


How can one not get worked up?

How can this company still have supporters in people who bought an X1000 to leave 1 cpu core unused, or most recently an X5000 so they can enjoy wasting 3 (three) whole cores? (Ah well, of course one can use Linux. Because we all know the point of buying a PPC Amiga for 2000+ eur is to run Linux, right?)

How can this be shrugged off as trolling by others who also loved the Amiga for what it used to be?

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
kimmok-alt-account 
Re: Interview: Timothy De Groote - Director Hyperion Entertainment CVBA
Posted on 15-May-2017 7:25:19
#100 ]
New Member
Joined: 10-May-2017
Posts: 5
From: Unknown

@resle

"most recently an X5000 so they can enjoy wasting 3 (three) whole cores?"

Is "X5040" out?

I think they sell "X5020" now.
Most likely some use for the second core will appear for AOS4 at some point. Meanwhile, I doubt single core variant of the SoC would be cheaper to make it worth it, it would only limit future use & Linux use.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 Next Page )

[ home ][ about us ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright © 2000 - 2017 Amigaworld.net.

Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle