@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

@Rob Quote: If it's not fantasy name one single phone or tablet device on which MorphOS or Amiga OS could run on. Actually it was tried. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bghlbjmzzqo

I'm well aware of Elap but it was never on the market so doesn't count.

Last edited by Rob on 02-Jun-2017 at 09:15 AM.

It takes 2 or 3 years to adapt os4 from a ppc platform to another, thus drivers are not always delivered, see ethernet ones.
On mobile phone market, in two years, your mobile is not even manufactured anymore...

Add another cpu paradigm, security stuff, modernise ui for gesture, add java, various framework work....ipv6, embedded wifi, bluetooth, nfc...

That seems to be impossible imho, or it may be with a lot lot of money, and that way it would certainly be more cost effective to start a new mobile os from scratch.

@Rob

Please add a space before the left hand bracket preceeding your end quote to eliminate the "hanging quote" error.

Thanks.

#6

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This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
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@Raffaele

I love the Amiga OS (I'm typing this on my A4000 with OS 3.9), but it would make a horrible mobile operating system.

I remember when the first iPhone was released, all the rumours initially predicted it would run OS X the same as the Mac, and that it would be controlled using a stylus.

People complained at first that it ran iOS, but soon realised that it was the best decision.

A mobile operating system needs to be built from the ground up for touch. You can't just stick an operating system designed for mouse and keyboard onto a phone and expect it to be a nice experience, or you end up with something like early Windows Mobile in the early 2000s and using a fiddly stylus to click little boxes on the screen.

@danwood

From the other side Windows suffered an inverse process and now even desktop version is modeled from its Mobile version....

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@Raffaele

Windows 8 was a flop, windows 10 looks like windows 7,

Windows 10 kind of two operating systems in one.

Metro apps for mobile and pad mode.
And windows programs for desktop.

So basically there two different desktops, there are two exe file for the same app one for metro and one normal windows.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 03-Jun-2017 at 03:07 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 02-Jun-2017 at 03:08 AM.
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edit. whatever..

Last edited by wawa on 02-Jun-2017 at 09:49 AM.
Last edited by wawa on 02-Jun-2017 at 03:15 AM.

@wawa

But at least discussion is constructive, so it is not a bad thing to explore other possibilities (even the most remote ones) while waiting for AmigaOS 4.2 and MorphOS 3.10.

How many time we are waiting now? Almost two years for MorphOS and 1 year for AmigaOS 4.2?

People are getting tired of this situation!

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@Raffaele

then simply do something.

@Raffaele

yes...

but what do unrealistic discussions change about that?

World is not waiting. All we have is from desktop age, for mobile devices you need a complete set of new components and new software would need to be written.

Even if someone would pour plenty of money in development and there would suddenly be lots of programmers (who do not exist) and the components would be there, there would be no apps that attract users. Microsoft tried it and failed because of that. Where MS failed would AmigaOS or MorphOS succeed?

We tried to explain that to you but obviously failed

Last edited by OlafS25 on 02-Jun-2017 at 12:17 PM.
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@OlafS25

When you stop dreaming, you stop growing and evolving...

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@danwood

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or you end up with something like early Windows Mobile in the early 2000s and using a fiddly stylus to click little boxes on the screen.

As someone who suffers from zombie finger syndrome, I would loooooove to go back to using a stylus or built-in selector device to click little boxes. I loathe iOS, Blackberry 10, and Android because I find them almost unusable with my condition (and no, it is not an ID 10 T error, but an actual physical condition that makes it nigh impossible for me to use a capacitive touchscreen unless I lick my finger every time I swipe, type, or select. Even then, a swipe is oft interpreted as a select, a select as a swipe, and typing on screen results in garbled nonsense. I haaaaaate iOS, Android, and Blackberry 10. Give me something I can use).

It's not just smart phones and tablets. Refrigerators, washers, dryers,thermostats, and just about every appliance imaginable is now operated through a damn capacitive touch screen. I have been made into a disabled person. I can't even get a drink at a fast food restaurant any more, because the drink dispenser is operated via touch screen... and the management doesn't want me licking the coke machine.

Perhaps if enough of us zombie finger people got together, we could petition companies based on ADA legislation to stop discriminating against us.

Last edited by PhantomInterrogative on 02-Jun-2017 at 01:29 PM.
Last edited by PhantomInterrogative on 02-Jun-2017 at 01:25 PM.

_________________
I sold my SAM460ex lite... waiting for money to buy a Raspberry Pi... or a Classic A1000 with Buffee... or an A1222... and OS4.3 FE update 11

@Raffaele

dreaming is stagnating. escaspism into phantasy land. evolving involves work to be done.

Trying to run before you walk. Get it running on a portable laptop/notebook before a phone or tablet is considered.

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http://www.pc-opensystems.com

@Raffaele

I've read so much dreaming in amigaland for 20 years, where has it evolved, exactly?

@paolone

Quote:

paolone wrote: @Raffaele I've read so much dreaming in amigaland for 20 years, where has it evolved, exactly?

Now that's a very curious strange question from a man who is known of the most actives to keep alive the dream of AROS despite 2/3 of Amigans, the Morphers and the Miggies consider it as being Not Amiga at all...

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@RobertJDohnert

Quote:

RobertJDohnert wrote: Trying to run before you walk. Get it running on a portable laptop/notebook before a phone or tablet is considered.

None proposed insane porting of Amiga on Mobile devices trying the impossible, just considering How cool it will be, and how lesser resource consuming it will be....

Last edited by Raffaele on 02-Jun-2017 at 07:06 PM.

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@Raffaele

Please define "cool". I see a horrific nightmare instead.
Amiga OS simply lacks any and all the things that a mobile device requires.
Things like telephony stack, battery management, IP 6, any sane graphics stack, a proper thread/task/process implementation. And this is on top of the already known issues.
We don't have a device driver SDK.
Any change must patch/hack system structures and functions.
Our memory allocation is a joke (linked lists? really?) is brittle (base 4 to find the size? really?) and a very bad one (given the chip/fast storage classes in c code, it forces you to dynamic alloc ... and go through that slow list search for a memory block). Audio stack is subpar (yes, both Audio Device and AHI. They don't grant a low latency, accelerated and ringbuffer based audio queue)
Heck, even the SegLoader is a hack on the AmigaOS, which is why you Load an executable, then patch in memory the reloc hunks before executing it.

Let me be clear: for how much I love the Amiga, this machine architecture was born in the 80ies and never ever evolved enough to be considered ready for the 90ies.

Cool you say ... just stick a boing ball label on a random android phone and you get a more amiga-ish dream than any hypothetical port made of pixie dust and dream oil.
Amiga on mobile would be like trying to fit a square peg into a circular hole. They don't belong to each other, they don't fit. They can't be adapted without a complete, 100% change, saving nothing but the name.

While you dream, head over Aminet and check the download count of the last weeks worth of first-time-submitted-stuff: ZERO. Do you get this? ZERO. ZERO downloads. ZERO interest. ZERO. The community is agonising, not dreaming.

Sorry to wake you up. If you want to give a concrete contribution to the Amiga as a platform, as a community, as a memory of a once glorious "dream" ... grab a C book and get your hands dirty with some code. Then, while coding, you will (maybe) understand why certain things cannot be done on the Amiga. Even if you patch every single library

Please forgive me if these words sound harsh. I have nothing against the person, just against the approach. I think it's always better to face reality, if you want to keep alive what still remains of this group.
Kind regards

@Tellurium

words of reason.. are lost on this site.

@wawa

Quote:

wawa wrote: @Tellurium words of reason.. are lost on this site.

Well apart from the true words Tellurium says. He just tried to wake me up from a dream I was not dreaming as I am perfectly aware of the situation except from the fact I never give up on imagining new advancements and solutions we could achieve., as there are not outside our limits of capabilities.

@Tellurium

Quote:

Tellurium wrote: @Raffaele Please define "cool". I see a horrific nightmare instead. Amiga OS simply lacks any and all the things that a mobile device requires. Things like telephony stack, battery management, IP 6, any sane graphics stack, a proper thread/task/process implementation. And this is on top of the already known issues. We don't have a device driver SDK. Any change must patch/hack system structures and functions. Our memory allocation is a joke (linked lists? really?) is brittle (base 4 to find the size? really?) and a very bad one (given the chip/fast storage classes in c code, it forces you to dynamic alloc ... and go through that slow list search for a memory block). Audio stack is subpar (yes, both Audio Device and AHI. They don't grant a low latency, accelerated and ringbuffer based audio queue) Heck, even the SegLoader is a hack on the AmigaOS, which is why you Load an executable, then patch in memory the reloc hunks before executing it. Let me be clear: for how much I love the Amiga, this machine architecture was born in the 80ies and never ever evolved enough to be considered ready for the 90ies.

Hey man... they promised all these brand new features you mentioned almost in 2007... Now it is 2017. It has been passed 10 years...

Yo people... Wake up! it is 10 years ago we are waiting... Ten fuç°£% years!!!

A single man alone working in the spare time in the weekends had had made an entire modern brand new Operating System in the timespace of 10 years....

That's was he situation of operating Systems like VIsopsys or TempleOS one man projects...

What's the problem with AmigaOS or MorphOS?

Quote:

While you dream, head over Aminet and check the download count of the last weeks worth of first-time-submitted-stuff: ZERO. Do you get this? ZERO. ZERO downloads. ZERO interest. ZERO. The community is agonising, not dreaming.

Does latest Aminet acquisitions deserve to be downloaded or people are just happy with their actual software?

I see nothing really new worth a download, such as a new memory system or a new USB stack handling with no problem USB 2 and 3 and multiple devices USB peripherals (Poseidon on MorphOS for example is not capable to deal correctly with my Epson printer XP302 featuring 3 USB devices in one: Printer, Scanner and Card Reader. it recognizes twice at time, not three. How many time i could wait for a Poseidon USB Stack capable to handle it with precision?), or perhaps i saw no CUPS based printer drivers system device available for download on Amiga repository.

These are the programs that could be worthing downloading on Aminet... New stacks, new drivers, new memory managements. The rest it is only toys applications for kidding on utilities.

Quote:

Sorry to wake you up. If you want to give a concrete contribution to the Amiga as a platform, as a community, as a memory of a once glorious "dream" ... grab a C book and get your hands dirty with some code. Then, while coding, you will (maybe) understand why certain things cannot be done on the Amiga. Even if you patch every single library

i am doing it studying C but I think it will pass another year before I could starting programming something useful for the community, and sure my code it will not so polite enough...

For sure neither a year from now I will able to make Amiga Drivers or patching important parts of Operating System as we need...

My software probably will hit lesser than zero downloads on Aminet... Unreal and illogical but true preview of acceptance of public to my creations...

Quote:

Cool you say ... just stick a boing ball label on a random android phone and you get a more amiga-ish dream than any hypothetical port made of pixie dust and dream oil. Amiga on mobile would be like trying to fit a square peg into a circular hole. They don't belong to each other, they don't fit. They can't be adapted without a complete, 100% change, saving nothing but the name.

Agonizing you said...???

YES...!!! We are agonizing...

And only new releases of AmigaOS or MorphOS featuring REAL new features and enhancements together with a true marketing policy from a centralized firm of reference for the Amiga market could save us.

Trevor is doing great things, but not enough to reissue a vital Amiga market as he is limited by the fact multiple companies all attempting killing the others to survive, actually owe Amiga copyrights, technologies and know-hows.

And perhaps fitting a square peg into a circular hole is more or less how we lived in all these years we missed (WE MISSED... MAN!!!!) relying on compromise patches made on the system, not on real enhancements...

I am finished.

I am going outside for a walk.

http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Concrete/Issue-4?id=63333#16

Last edited by Raffaele on 07-Jun-2017 at 02:36 PM.
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_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).